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teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: AYA 2010

We got back from the Dayton AYA Convention about noon on Friday.

A couple of things upon which to comment.

First, I didn't think I would be coming to (going to) the AYA convention this year.  I hadn't planned for it.  I bought a house last year and I'm still recovering from the down payment and remodeling.  SOOOO, I didn't read the Star articles regarding the venue in Dayton.  I mean, why should I?  I've been going to conventions off and on since 1990.  They are all pretty much the same.  They start on a Monday, banquet dinner on Thursday, fly home on Friday.  

Clytie, my better half, had never been to a convention.  I tried explaining what it was like.  No luck.   You had to be there.  Then, one night after the Red Bluff Fly-in, while sitting by the waterfall in the living room and watching TV, my better half said, "Let's go to Dayton."  She wanted to fly 28747 to Dayton.  She's quite the adventurer.  She loves flying too.  We started doing the math.  I don't owe Garner that much!  She said, "Let's go commercial."  The blasphemy.  "OK."  Within the next 30 minutes, she on her iMac and me on mine we searched for good deals.  We finally found round trip tickets for under $800 for both of us.  I filled out the application for the convention, made out a check to Karen and Stew who had dinner on me (just kidding), and began planning for the event.  

A few days later, talking to Roscoe, I learned the "experts forum" was on Friday.  "Doesn't the convention end on Thursday and everyone flies home on Friday?"  Not  this year.   When I got my 'information' package from the 'home office,' I opened and started reading.  Blah, blah, blah.  WAY too much gibberish and nonsense and not enough real content and information.  If one keeps the previous years' package, you'll recognize it.

Case in point:  The colored chart with the schedule of events.  3 point font?  are you kidding?  What was the point in the colors?  There was no color code to say what was what.  Or was it colored to make it look important?  I couldn't tell.  And, the "Seminar" schedule.  Seminar?  Where on the colored sheet did it say what the seminar was?   Short of going to the room where the seminars were held, it wasn't obvious to me.  But, it was done in Excel.

The schedule:  There are times when I just wish people would quit using Excel to do data bases and text  outlines.  Excel is for spread sheets.  Doing anything more with it tells me you need to get out more.  Oh, I know, you got Excel as free software when you bought your first PC in 1984 and, by damn, it'll do everything you'll ever need.  The schedule, neatly boxed in with every line having its own border, had the same information as the colored page but in slightly more depth.  Why not spend a little extra time and a word processor to make something that looks like a schedule?

Transportation:  There was no transportation to and from the Dayton international airport.  I guess if you don't fly your own plane in you're not worthy.  A big thanks to Hal and Vickie Beauchesne (Bow-Chez-Nee) who made two round trips to pick us up on Sunday.  And, an even bigger thanks to Garner for getting up at 4am and taking us to the airport Friday morning.  Then there was the shuttle, to and from  the little airport, hosted by my buddy Mark Matthews.  Clytie and I bummed a ride to a fish restaurant (seriously, does everything in the midwest NEED to be fried in butter?) with Mark and Kelly.  Both were very gracious and friendly.  Clytie sat next to Kelly and a casual observer would have thought they had known each other for years.  Mark, I take back everything I've said.  

The Air Force Museum:  No where, anywhere I looked anyway, was there ANY information on the experimental planes at the Museum.  On Wednesday, we got there early so we could have time to look at the planes.  The first thing I asked the person at the information desk was, "Where are the experimental planes?"  Pointing to her right, "Out that door and that way."  Asking another face in the museum, "Just keep going to the end.  They are past the B-2."  Well.  Not exactly.  The X-planes are  on the other side of the base and you need to be military or go on 'the short bus' to get there.  How do I know?  We went back on Thursday (we stole a car and used the GPS in my iPhone to find the museum).  We got there 10 minutes after the LAST bus to the X-planes left.  But, "it was full anyway.  So, you still wouldn't have been able to go." says the new guy in the information desk.  Seems to me, someone putting on a show in Dayton for pilots would have spent more time arranging these excursions.  The museum could have spent more time with signs explaining the lock-down on X-planes.

New and old friends:  Wow, where to start?   Garner, Mini, and the kids.  They are like family.  I've known them longer than any of my marriages; in fact, longer than all of them combined!  It was Celise's birthday on Thursday.  That was fun.  It was great seeing Ian, we  talked about taxes, and Nigel, now I know why he's called Grumpy.   Charlie and Carol Adams.  Gil and Doris.  Claude Allen, Patrick/Theresa,  . . . .  Wow, looking over the list of attendees, I count no fewer than 45 people who we saw and talked to who I already knew.  We also made several new friends.  John Betsill who spent 30 minutes chewing me out for saying the YF-23 was better than the YF-22 (he overheard me saying that to Dave Fletcher).  Turns out he was an engineer on the YF-22.  Oddly enough, since I worked with a good many of the folks who went on to test fly and develop the F-22, we knew many of the same folks.  John, I still think the YF-23 was better.  Bob Hodo and I carried on like we've known each other for years.  And, of course, my new friend Mick Beede, who gave us a ride to the Air Force Museum in exchange for a 60 minute dissertation on what to do and not to do if he  wants to replace his own windshield.  

The most interesting experience was observing behaviors.  I guess I had noticed before, but it never totally sunk in.  Ron Levy, walking toward me, did an abrupt "eyes right" about 10 feet before passing in an effort to avoid eye contact I guess.  Very child like.  Others would intentionally start a conversation and, when asked a question, would say, "Hold that thought.  I'll tell you later." and then disappear.  I guess their thought is, "knowledge is power," and now they know something I don't.  I wasn't impressed.  Some AYAers were down right rude.  Again, Mark and Kelly were the most impressive in what could have been an uncomfortable situation based on past history.  

Time to go to work.  

Oh, yea, Bill and Carol Scott.  I got to watch them as they annualed a plane in a  hangar at the airport.  I must say, they did an very thorough and complete annual on that plane.  On a new plane, new to me, I usually break down the depth of the annual over the first couple annuals.  I cover the most critical stuff first and the not so critical stuff later.  For example, the glareshield doesn't come off.  I crawl under the panel and check for interference with cables, wires etc.  I even oil the chains from below.  Now I know why they charge $2500 for an annual.  

Take Care

Gary

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david(at)newlangsyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:55 am Post subject: AYA 2010

# We got back from the Dayton AYA Convention about noon on Friday.



We got back 4 PM yesterday.  Took the long way home.



# Transportation:  There was no transportation to and from the

# Dayton international airport.



I don't think any convention has ever provided transportation to a different

airport, but I've only been involved for a few years.  Maybe an airborne

shuttle would be a suggestion for a new volunteer activity.  I think it's

probably too complicated to work well, because GA and airlines are segregated

at airports like DAY.



# The Air Force Museum:  No where, anywhere I looked anyway, was

# there ANY information on the experimental planes at the Museum.



This seems to be one of the museum's more closely held secrets.  The trick is

to show up early in the morning and go directly to make your transport

reservation.  Nothing to do with the AYA convention, but an unfortunate

"feature" of the National Museum of the US Air Force.



# The most interesting experience was observing behaviors.  I guess

# I had noticed before, but it never totally sunk in.  Ron Levy,

# walking toward me, did an abrupt "eyes right" about 10 feet

# before passing in an effort to avoid eye contact I guess.



Don't feel special about that.  I got the same treatment several times, even

in a small group out by the runway to measure spot landings.  No idea what's

up with that, but I won't lose any sleep over it.



  ----------------------------------------



Like Gary, I enjoy re-connecting with old friends and meeting new ones at

these conventions.  Mine is a different circle, probably because of my late

introduction to AYA and my lesser stature in Grumman Land.  But they're

all good people, at least the ones I know.  As for the rude people, they're

the ones I don't need to know.  Fortunately, they are few in this

organization.



I missed one thing in particular.  At every other convention I've attended,

somebody announced the location of the convention two years hence.  This has

been part of the program at the farewell banquet, which Gary missed but I did

not.  Is this because

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together in the West

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together at all, or

    - something else?



______________________________________________________________________

This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.

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bob.hodo(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:59 pm Post subject: AYA 2010

Is this because

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together in the West

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together at all, or

    - something else?



I think Dayton was a Central location, and SSI will be an Eastern location so, if my understanding is correct, the 2012 convention would again be a Central location, and the convention won't go "West" again until 2013.



Bob Hodo



         [quote][b]

david(at)newlangsyne.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject: AYA 2010

# I think Dayton was a Central location, and SSI will be an Eastern

# location so, if my understanding is correct, the 2012 convention

# would again be a Central location, and the convention won't go

# "West" again until 2013.



You're absolutely right.  I'd still like to know where it will be.



Considering where I think the membership lives (including the US and Canada,

sorry for excluding the Southern Hemisphere), the most central location of all

seems to be in southern Nebraska or northern Kansas.  So, let's look at

distances to Kearney, Nebraska, just for reference:



    SAN San Diego  994 NM

    AUG Augusta, Maine 1302 NM

    SEA Seattle 1077 NM

    YYC Calgary 877 NM

    T82 Fredericksburg, Tex.  629 NM

    OSH Oshkosh 502 NM

    TPA Tampa, Fla.  1115 NM

    YSSY Sydney, Australia 7516 NM

    LHR London, England 3861 NM



Except for Europe and Australia, all of these are within one day's Grumman

flying.  Maybe we should be looking at Kansas City.  There's a recent

convention chairman in the vicinity, and I'm sure he's running and ducking if

he's reading this.  We went to the convention that Don co-chaired in Iowa,

and had a ball.  We also thoroughly enjoyed exploring the Midwest, which is

much more interesting than people from both US coasts think it to be.

teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:21 pm Post subject: AYA 2010

Hi Dave,

I know lots of Daves.  I have 21 Daves in my cell phone.  It's really crowded in there.

I was surprised that the hotel didn't service anything beyond 5 miles.  The DAY airport was not close enough.  I was pissed at myself, mostly, for not planning the trip earlier.  Roscoe told me to look at the schedule before I made my reservations.  I didn't of course.  Showing up at DAY and not being able to get to the hotel was a real pain in the ass.  If not for Roscoe, Hal & Vickie, and Garner, we'd have to buy a $60 taxi ride.  HINT: At the next convention, AYA or GOPA, make the arrangements of someone wants to save a few buck and show up in a flying bus.

I had  been to the museum in 1986.  I saw the X-planes then.  I was surprised that there is no info on the X-planes if the casual tourist wanted to see them.  Perhaps, since Roscoe lives there, he didn't think about the extra effort to go to the X-planes.  None-the-less, now I need to go back.

Gary



From: David Feinstein <david(at)newlangsyne.com>

To: Team Grumman <TeamGrumman-List(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 12:54:32 PM

Subject: re: AYA 2010



 --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "David Feinstein" <david(at)newlangsyne.com (david(at)newlangsyne.com)>



# We got back from the Dayton AYA Convention about noon on Friday.



We got back 4 PM yesterday.  Took the long way home.



# Transportation:  There was no transportation to and from the

# Dayton international airport.



I don't think any convention has ever provided transportation to a different

airport, but I've only been involved for a few years.  Maybe an airborne

shuttle would be a suggestion for a new volunteer activity.  I think it's

probably too complicated to work well, because GA and airlines are segregated

at airports like DAY.



# The Air Force Museum:  No where, anywhere I looked anyway, was

# there ANY information on the experimental planes at the Museum.



This seems to be one of the museum's  more closely held secrets.  The trick is

to show up early in the morning and go directly to make your transport

reservation.  Nothing to do with the AYA convention, but an unfortunate

"feature" of the National Museum of the US Air Force.



# The most interesting experience was observing behaviors.  I guess

# I had noticed before, but it never totally sunk in.  Ron Levy,

# walking toward me, did an abrupt "eyes right" about 10 feet

# before passing in an effort to avoid eye contact I guess.



Don't feel special about that.  I got the same treatment several times, even

in a small group out by the runway to measure spot landings.  No idea what's

up with that, but I won't lose any sleep over it.



  ----------------------------------------



Like Gary, I enjoy re-connecting with old friends and meeting new ones at

these conventions.  Mine is a different circle, probably  because of my late

introduction to AYA and my lesser stature in Grumman Land.  But they're

all good people, at least the ones I know.  As for the rude people, they're

the ones I don't need to know.  Fortunately, they are few in this

organization.



I missed one thing in particular.  At every other convention I've attended,

somebody announced the location of the convention two years hence.  This has

been part of the program at the farewell banquet, which Gary missed but I did

not.  Is this because

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together in the West

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together at all, or

    - something else?



______________________________________________________________________

This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System.

For more information please visit

teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:22 pm Post subject: AYA 2010

So, it will be 8 years since an AYA convention was in the west.  

From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo(at)YAHOO.COM>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 1:57:10 PM

Subject: Re: re: AYA 2010

 Is this because

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together in the West

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together at all, or

    - something else?

I think Dayton was a Central location, and SSI will be an Eastern location so, if my understanding is correct, the 2012 convention would again be a Central location, and the convention won't go "West" again until 2013.

Bob Hodo

    	  Quote: 	

         [quote][b]

bob.hodo(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: AYA 2010

Yeah, I don't know, Gary.  The Rockies have been a headache for east-west travel for quite a while now, I guess.  I dropped in for a day and a half at Baraboo.  I have stayed far away from AYA politics and policies because I have been neck deep in that kind of thing in a previous life.



Of over 50,000 people who have been members of the National Knife Collector's Association, (NKCA) yours truly is the only one who was ever kicked out. I was the youngest person ever elected to their board of directors.  I'm not sure if they exist anymore.  One of the most controversial things that ever came up was a name change for the outfit.  Go figure.



But it taught me a lot about human behavior.  It is strange to me that people will spend money like water when it is not their money.  It is strange to me that even  businesses don't put themselves inside the head of their target audience to see if a purchase from them would make sense at all.  Garmin, for example, has gone out it's way to make it clear to me that I am an idiot if I ever buy anything from them, and they will treat me like one.



I belong to the AYA out of a sense of obligation to them, not because of any service they provide for me.  I plan to remain a silent supporter.  I get along well with, and enjoy the company of most of the people I have met there.  Some of the one's I cannot hold a conversation with are still a source of amusement.



And I love the airplane.



Bob Hodo

GADsden, AL

cheetaaahhh



--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM>

Subject: Re:  re: AYA 2010

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 10:22 PM



So, it will be 8 years since an AYA convention was in the west.  



From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo(at)YAHOO.COM>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 1:57:10 PM

Subject: Re: TeamGrumman-List: re: AYA 2010



 Is this because

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together in the West

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together at all, or

    - something else?



I think Dayton was a Central location, and SSI will be an Eastern location so, if my understanding is correct, the 2012 convention would again be a Central location, and the convention won't go "West" again until 2013.



Bob Hodo



    	  Quote: 	
		  	


   



          	  Quote: 	
		  http:   --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution 	


	


         [quote][b]

david(at)newlangsyne.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:49 am Post subject: AYA 2010

# if my understanding is correct, the 2012 convention would again

# be a Central location, and the convention won't go "West" again

# until 2013.



..



# So, it will be 8 years since an AYA convention was in the west.  



Red Deer (2009), same longitude as Las Vegas.



West <> California



However, I would not argue with the assertion that Dayton was more "east" than

"central."

teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:54 am Post subject: AYA 2010

Red Deer was North.



From: David Feinstein <david(at)newlangsyne.com>

To: Team Grumman <TeamGrumman-List(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Thu, July 22, 2010 3:15:11 AM

Subject: re: AYA 2010



   



         [quote][b]

teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: AYA 2010

Hi Bob,



Ahh, yes, the Rockies.  For the first 21 years of my life, 12,000 mountains were 

my security blanket.  My first solo cross country (in an AA1B) was from Salt 

Lake City to Burley, Idaho and back.  For the first 4 years after I got my 

pilots license, I never leveled off below 5500 feet.  After I got my pilots 

license, my plane of choice were Cheetahs, 26661, 9833U, 26685, and 26266.  I 

felt uncomfortable flying below 6500 feet.  (real easy to join the mile high 

club . . . . . )  A quick flight for me was to Rock Springs, Wyoming 

(Wild-oming).  I can't even begin to describe the hours I spent scud-running in 

the mountains East of Salt Lake City.  I routinely flew over 12,000 foot 

mountains to the East to 'buzz' my folks while they were fishing at Strawberry 

Reservoir, Echo Reservoir, Rockport Reservoir, and many others.  In the winter, 

I'd fly up to Alta, Snow Bird, Park City, and other ski resorts (sometimes at 

night) to watch the skiers.  



In the early 80's, I flew to Concorde, California to visit a friend.  Concorde 

is at sea-level.  It took 3 attempts to get close enough to  land.  The air was 

so fat at sea-level that I couldn't get down.  From Concorde, I flew to Merced 

(where I was stationed in the Air Force) to visit another friend.  Merced is at 

188 feet.  I climbed out of Concorde to 7500 feet to fly the 180 miles to 

Merced.  "People don't actually fly at 3500 feet!  Do they?"  It took me a long 

time to get down from 7500 feet once I got to Merced.  



On another trip in the early 80's, a friend and I flew to Jackson Hole, Wyoming. 

I can tell you there is nothing quite as breath taking as seeing mountains 

rising over 8,000 feet above the valley floor.  If you never do anything else, 

go see  the Grand Tetons of Wyoming.  



In 2002, I flew my Citabria from Lancaster, CA to the AYA in Cody, Wyoming.  I 

met up  with three Grummans flying from SoCal to Cody.  We all spent the night in 

Salt Lake City.  The 3 Grummans were going to fly toward Cheyenne to avoid the 

highest mountains.  I planned to fly direct.  My goal: stay below 10,500 feet. 

Somewhere in the middle of Wyoming, I flew at 250 AGL over a farm on top of a 

mountain.  Eventually, I had to go to 11,700 to clear the final range into Cody. 

I beat the Grummans to Cody by 2 hours. 



I'll bet if you climbed to 12,000 feet over Florida, you could see both coasts.



Gary



From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo(at)YAHOO.COM>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 8:58:42 PM

Subject: Re: re: AYA 2010



 Yeah, I don't know, Gary.  The Rockies have been a headache for east-west travel for quite a while now, I guess.  I dropped in for a day and a half at Baraboo.  I have stayed far away from AYA politics and policies because I have been neck deep in that kind of thing in a previous life.



Of over 50,000 people who have been members of the National Knife Collector's Association, (NKCA) yours truly is the only one who was ever kicked out. I was the youngest person ever elected to their board of directors.  I'm not sure if they exist anymore.  One of the most controversial things that ever came up was a name change for the outfit.  Go figure.



But it taught me a lot about human behavior.  It is strange to me that people will spend money like water when it is not their money.  It is strange to me that even  businesses don't put themselves inside the head of their target audience to see if a purchase from them would make sense at all.  Garmin, for example, has gone out it's way to make it clear to me that I am an idiot if I ever buy anything from them, and they will treat me like one.



I belong to the AYA out of a sense of obligation to them, not because of any service they provide for me.  I plan to remain a silent supporter.  I get along well with, and enjoy the company of most of the people I have met there.  Some of the one's I cannot hold a conversation with are still a source of amusement.



And I love the airplane.



Bob Hodo

GADsden, AL

cheetaaahhh



--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM>

Subject: Re:  re: AYA 2010

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 10:22 PM



So, it will be 8 years since an AYA convention was in the west.  



From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo(at)YAHOO.COM>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 1:57:10 PM

Subject: Re: re: AYA 2010



 Is this because

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together in the West

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together at all, or

    - something else?



I think Dayton was a Central location, and SSI will be an Eastern location so, if my understanding is correct, the 2012 convention would again be a Central location, and the convention won't go "West" again until 2013.



Bob Hodo



    	  Quote: 	
		  	


   



          	  Quote: 	
		   http:   --> [url=]http://forums.matro[/url]www.matronics.com/contribution> 	


	


    	  Quote:

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teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:13 am Post subject: AYA 2010

Hi Bob,



Ahh, yes, the Rockies.  For the first 21 years of my life, 12,000 mountains were 

my security blanket.  My first solo cross country (in an AA1B) was from Salt 

Lake City to Burley, Idaho and back.  For the first 4 years after I got my 

pilots license, I never leveled off below 5500 feet.  After I got my pilots 

license, my plane of choice were Cheetahs, 26661, 9833U, 26685, and 26266.  I 

felt uncomfortable flying below 6500 feet.  (real easy to join the mile high 

club . . . . . )  A quick flight for me was to Rock Springs, Wyoming 

(Wild-oming).  I can't even begin to describe the hours I spent scud-running in 

the mountains East of Salt Lake City.  I routinely flew over 12,000 foot 

mountains to the East to 'buzz' my folks while they were fishing at Strawberry 

Reservoir, Echo Reservoir, Rockport Reservoir, and many others.  In the winter, 

I'd fly up to Alta, Snow Bird, Park City, and other ski resorts (sometimes at 

night) to watch the skiers.  



In the early 80's, I flew to Concorde, California to visit a friend.  Concorde 

is at sea-level.  It took 3 attempts to get close enough to  land.  The air was 

so fat at sea-level that I couldn't get down.  From Concorde, I flew to Merced 

(where I was stationed in the Air Force) to visit another friend.  Merced is at 

188 feet.  I climbed out of Concorde to 7500 feet to fly the 180 miles to 

Merced.  "People don't actually fly at 3500 feet!  Do they?"  It took me a long 

time to get down from 7500 feet once I got to Merced.  



On another trip in the early 80's, a friend and I flew to Jackson Hole, Wyoming. 

I can tell you there is nothing quite as breath taking as seeing mountains 

rising over 8,000 feet above the valley floor.  If you never do anything else, 

go see  the Grand Tetons of Wyoming.  



In 2002, I flew my Citabria from Lancaster, CA to the AYA in Cody, Wyoming.  I 

met up  with three Grummans flying from SoCal to Cody.  We all spent the night in 

Salt Lake City.  The 3 Grummans were going to fly toward Cheyenne to avoid the 

highest mountains.  I planned to fly direct.  My goal: stay below 10,500 feet. 

Somewhere in the middle of Wyoming, I flew at 250 AGL over a farm on top of a 

mountain.  Eventually, I had to go to 11,700 to clear the final range into Cody. 

I beat the Grummans to Cody by 2 hours. 



I'll bet if you climbed to 12,000 feet over Florida, you could see both coasts.



Gary



From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo(at)YAHOO.COM>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 8:58:42 PM

Subject: Re: re: AYA 2010



 Yeah, I don't know, Gary.  The Rockies have been a headache for east-west travel for quite a while now, I guess.  I dropped in for a day and a half at Baraboo.  I have stayed far away from AYA politics and policies because I have been neck deep in that kind of thing in a previous life.



Of over 50,000 people who have been members of the National Knife Collector's Association, (NKCA) yours truly is the only one who was ever kicked out. I was the youngest person ever elected to their board of directors.  I'm not sure if they exist anymore.  One of the most controversial things that ever came up was a name change for the outfit.  Go figure.



But it taught me a lot about human behavior.  It is strange to me that people will spend money like water when it is not their money.  It is strange to me that even  businesses don't put themselves inside the head of their target audience to see if a purchase from them would make sense at all.  Garmin, for example, has gone out it's way to make it clear to me that I am an idiot if I ever buy anything from them, and they will treat me like one.



I belong to the AYA out of a sense of obligation to them, not because of any service they provide for me.  I plan to remain a silent supporter.  I get along well with, and enjoy the company of most of the people I have met there.  Some of the one's I cannot hold a conversation with are still a source of amusement.



And I love the airplane.



Bob Hodo

GADsden, AL

cheetaaahhh



--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM>

Subject: Re:  re: AYA 2010

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 10:22 PM



So, it will be 8 years since an AYA convention was in the west.  



From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo(at)YAHOO.COM>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 1:57:10 PM

Subject: Re: re: AYA 2010



 Is this because

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together in the West

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together at all, or

    - something else?



I think Dayton was a Central location, and SSI will be an Eastern location so, if my understanding is correct, the 2012 convention would again be a Central location, and the convention won't go "West" again until 2013.



Bob Hodo



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teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:40 pm Post subject: AYA 2010

this finally came through.  I'd given up.

From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Thu, July 22, 2010 10:50:12 AM

Subject: Re: re: AYA 2010

 Hi Bob,

Ahh, yes, the Rockies.  For the first 21 years of my life, 12,000 mountains were my security blanket.  My first solo cross country (in an AA1B) was from Salt Lake City to Burley, Idaho and back.  For the first 4 years after I got my pilots license, I never leveled off below 5500 feet.  After I got my pilots license, my plane of choice were Cheetahs, 26661, 9833U, 26685, and 26266.  I felt uncomfortable flying below 6500 feet.  (real easy to join the mile high club . . . . . )  A quick flight for me was to Rock Springs, Wyoming (Wild-oming).  I can't even begin to describe the hours I spent scud-running in the mountains East of Salt Lake City.  I routinely flew over 12,000 foot mountains to the East  to 'buzz' my folks while they were fishing at Strawberry Reservoir, Echo Reservoir, Rockport Reservoir, and many others.  In the winter, I'd fly up to Alta, Snow Bird, Park City, and other ski resorts (sometimes at night) to watch the skiers.  

In the early 80's, I flew to Concorde, California to visit a friend.  Concorde is at sea-level.  It took 3 attempts to get close enough to land.  The air was so fat at sea-level that I couldn't get down.  From Concorde, I flew to Merced (where I was stationed in the Air Force) to visit another friend.  Merced is at 188 feet.  I climbed out of Concorde to 7500 feet to fly the 180 miles to Merced.  "People don't actually fly at 3500 feet!  Do they?"  It took me a long time to get down from 7500 feet once I got to Merced.  

On another trip in the early 80's, a friend and I flew to Jackson Hole, Wyoming.   I can tell you there is nothing quite as breath taking as seeing mountains rising over 8,000 feet above the valley floor.  If you never do anything else, go see the Grand Tetons of Wyoming.  

In 2002, I flew my Citabria from Lancaster, CA to the AYA in Cody, Wyoming.  I met up with three Grummans flying from SoCal to Cody.  We all spent the night in Salt Lake City.  The 3 Grummans were going to fly toward Cheyenne to avoid the highest mountains.  I planned to fly direct.  My goal: stay below 10,500 feet.  Somewhere in the middle of Wyoming, I flew at 250 AGL over a farm on top of a mountain.  Eventually, I had to go to 11,700 to clear the final range into Cody.  I beat the Grummans to Cody by 2 hours. 

I'll bet if you climbed to 12,000 feet over Florida, you could see both coasts.

Gary

From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo(at)YAHOO.COM>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 8:58:42 PM

Subject: Re: re: AYA 2010

 Yeah, I don't know, Gary.  The Rockies have been a headache for east-west travel for quite a while now, I guess.  I dropped in for a day and a half at Baraboo.  I have stayed far away from AYA politics and policies because I have been neck deep in that kind of thing in a previous life.

Of over 50,000 people who have been members of the National Knife Collector's Association, (NKCA) yours truly is the only one who was ever kicked out. I was the youngest person ever elected to their board of directors.  I'm not sure if they exist anymore.  One of the most controversial things that ever came up was a name change for the outfit.  Go figure.

But it taught me a lot about human behavior.  It is strange to me that people will spend money like water when it is not their money.  It is strange to me that even  businesses don't put themselves inside the head of their target audience to see if a purchase from them would make sense at all.  Garmin, for example, has gone out it's way to make it clear to me that I am an idiot if I ever buy anything from them, and they will treat me like one.

I belong to the AYA out of a sense of obligation to them, not because of any service they provide for me.  I plan to remain a silent supporter.  I get along well with, and enjoy the company of most of the people I have met there.  Some of the one's I cannot hold a conversation with are still a source of amusement.

And I love the airplane.

Bob Hodo

GADsden, AL

cheetaaahhh

--- On Wed, 7/21/10, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

From: Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)YAHOO.COM>

Subject: Re:  re: AYA 2010

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, July 21, 2010, 10:22 PM

So, it will be 8 years since an AYA convention was in the west.  

From: Bob Hodo <bob.hodo(at)YAHOO.COM>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, July 21, 2010 1:57:10 PM

Subject: Re: re: AYA 2010

 Is this because

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together in the West

    - nobody is willing to put a meeting together at all, or

    - something else?

I think Dayton was a Central location, and SSI will be an Eastern location so, if my understanding is correct, the 2012 convention would again be a Central location, and the convention won't go "West" again until 2013.

Bob Hodo

    	  Quote: 	

          	  Quote: 	
		   http:   --> www.matronics.com/contribution> 	

    	  Quote: 	

         [quote][b]

aa5flyer(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:55 am Post subject: AYA 2010

Not even 1200'

 [quote]   ---

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