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Icom A6 Power Supply

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checkn6

Joined: 20 Feb 2010
Posts: 14

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:22 am Post subject: Icom A6 Power Supply

Hi Everyone,



Pardon my ignorance here but if it were not for this list and the AEC website and manual my electrical system would probably be in shambles. But on to my question.



I fly a Challenger and use an Icom A6 handheld for my radio until I can afford a panel mount. The instructions state that I must use the CP-20 cord (at) $55 to power it from the ships power. Seems a bit excessive to me but is there some kind of magic in the box that I'm just not getting? The radio takes an 11V input and I am guessing that the CP-20 has a charging system inside to recharge the NiMh battery. My real question is can I run the radio on a 12V cord without all the bells and whistles? I'm not trying to charge the battery in flight as I have a spare alkaline battery pack mounted to the panel that I can clip the radio body to while flying and un-clip when I get out. I remember years ago someone telling me that a radio of this quality can work on a somewhat wide range of external power as they have built in conversion, but like I said pardon my ignorance.



Thanks 



Chris

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 8:22 am Post subject: Icom A6 Power Supply

Chris, Look in your owners manual, I was surprised to find that my A22 which had a simple cigarette style plug would work fine on 12 volts but the manual had a prohibition from plugging it into a 24 volt system or it would let the smoke out. I bought my A22 in 1999 so perhaps Icom has come to their senses with the A6.

I put the A22 in my trike and I power it from the 12 volt system. It works fine. I went to the DAV with the radio and went through their box of power supplies to find one that had a nice long cord and a plug that fits the radio's power receptical. I didn't care about voltage or polarity, just wanted the right plug. Bought the transformer for 25 cents, took it home and cut off the transformer and canned it. used an ohm meter to determine which wire went where, the center is + on the A22 and wired it into an extra fuse slot on the trike. Works great, no escaped smoke in two years.

 Icom builds good handhelds, but their accessory prices are laughable to the point of arrogance. For my LSA I bought the cheapest Vertex handheld. It comes with a headset adapter all that's needed is a PTT switch, which Bob told me how to build then I found a ready made on at Mypilot for $11. I made my own antenna and the whole package barely broke $200 for everything. It's wired into the ship the same way as the trike (another 25 cent plug from DAV, too) and it too works great with no smoke. The Vertex even had Li battery pack instead of the Nicads and Nmh that Icom uses.

 I don't own any stock in Vertex's parent company, I just like their radios and especially their prices.

Rick Girard



On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 9:22 AM, checkn6 <checkn6(at)yahoo.com (checkn6(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "checkn6" <checkn6(at)yahoo.com (checkn6(at)yahoo.com)>

  

 Hi Everyone,

 

 Pardon my ignorance here but if it were not for this list and the AEC website and manual my electrical system would probably be in shambles. But on to my question.

 

 I fly a Challenger and use an Icom A6 handheld for my radio until I can afford a panel mount. The instructions state that I must use the CP-20 cord (at) $55 to power it from the ships power. Seems a bit excessive to me but is there some kind of magic in the box that I'm just not getting? The radio takes an 11V input and I am guessing that the CP-20 has a charging system inside to recharge the NiMh battery. My real question is can I run the radio on a 12V cord without all the bells and whistles? I'm not trying to charge the battery in flight as I have a spare alkaline battery pack mounted to the panel that I can clip the radio body to while flying and un-clip when I get out. I remember years ago someone telling me that a radio of this quality can work on a somewhat wide range of external power as they have built in conversion, but like I said pardon my ignorance.

  

 Thanks

 

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=307631#307631

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: Icom A6 Power Supply

At 09:22 AM 8/5/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Hi Everyone,



Pardon my ignorance here but if it were not for this list and the 

AEC website and manual my electrical system would probably be in 

shambles. But on to my question.



I fly a Challenger and use an Icom A6 handheld for my radio until I 

can afford a panel mount. The instructions state that I must use the 

CP-20 cord (at) $55 to power it from the ships power. Seems a bit 

excessive to me but is there some kind of magic in the box that I'm 

just not getting? The radio takes an 11V input and I am guessing 

that the CP-20 has a charging system inside to recharge the NiMh 

battery. My real question is can I run the radio on a 12V cord 

without all the bells and whistles? I'm not trying to charge the 

battery in flight as I have a spare alkaline battery pack mounted to 

the panel that I can clip the radio body to while flying and un-clip 

when I get out. I remember years ago someone telling me that a radio 

of this quality can work on a somewhat wide range of external power 

as they have built in conversion, but like I said pardon my ignorance.


	


    Good question. But with an answer similar to the

    recent exchange about charging batteries in cordless

    drills. Without analyzing a CP-20 to deduce its

    mojo, there's little that anyone can offer you

    with confidence. If we had a schematic of what

    goes on inside it, I could certainly offer

    solid advice. Suggest you get the recommended

    cable. The $time$ expended to do a work-around

    may well be more costly than using the stock

   cable.

   Bob . . .

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:38 am Post subject: Re: Icom A6 Power Supply

I have a A24 which i believe calls for the same $$power supply$$ as the A6. Mine needs to see between 9.5 and 11.7 volts at the plug to charge the battery AND to transmit. The A24 will still turn on, change channels, listen to traffic, charge the battery, etc above 11.7 volts but it will not transmit.

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:28 am Post subject: Icom A6 Power Supply

At 04:38 AM 8/6/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I have a A24 which i believe calls for the same $$power supply$$ as 

the A6. Mine needs to see between 9.5 and 11.7 volts at the plug to 

charge the battery AND to transmit. The A24 will still turn on, 

change channels, listen to traffic, charge the battery, etc above 

11.7 volts but it will not transmit.


	


   Interesting data point! Thank you. This makes sense

   as these tiny transceivers all have one thing in

   common . . .



   To get Power Output they need to have Power Input.

   The best possible efficiency for the power output

   stage of an AM transmitters has a practical limit

   . . . where INEFFICIENCY manifests itself as heat.

   When you've stuffed a multi-watt transmitter into

   a envelope the size of a package of cigarets, the

   designers best hopes for moving heat out of the

   vulnerable circuits are severely restricted.



   This bit of information suggests that external

   power adapters for these radios may well contain

   regulators designed to keep the radio from going

   into self-protective shutdown when powered from

   a DC bus supported at over 14v by an alternator.

   Bob . . .

dougshep

Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:23 am Post subject: Icom A6 Power Supply

I'm trying to adapt my ICOM A23 (NAV/COM) hand held xcvr to my panel also.  The A23 is very similar to your A6 electrically.  I ordered a BP-200, battery eliminator (it replaces its battery) and connected it to my A6 and here is the letter I sent with the BP-200 back to W&W Manufacturing where I purchased it:

"I received your WWE-BP200 Battery eliminator for my ICOM A23 handheld transceiver.  When using it by plugging it into an auto (engine was off) cigarette lighter, the transceiver seemed to work except produced so much static and noise (squeals) that it was not usable.  Note that when using the transceiver in the same auto with its normal battery pack it worked perfectly.  The transceiver uses its normal whip antenna that came with it.  The auto battery measured 12.7 VDC, and also the same problem occurred in another auto I tested it in.  I checked the BP200 with a volt meter and it produces the correct 10.0 VDC output.  Apparently its power supply is producing the noise and its coupling into the transceiver.  Perhaps its power supply is defective.Pse send me another BP200 without this noise problem."

Well, all I got was a refund to my credit card.  The Battery eliminator uses a buck converter that produces a 200Khz power with enough noise to radiate into your antenna.  Using 50feet of RG-58 and an external antenna routed the same distance, it worked pretty good.  So, forget it unless you can shield its power supply or use an outside antenna.  

I've just ordered ICOM's A23 service manual, and plan to panel mount my A23 with its battery pack using a charger/booster.  The A23 can trickle or boost charge.  I've heard good things about airborne ICOM handhelds (mine works good in flight), and panel mount NAV/COMs are $$$.  I'd be careful about connecting your A6 directly to aircraft power.     [quote][b]

_________________
Doug Shepard, RV-9A

rose9065f

Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Pahrump, NV

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:57 am Post subject: Re: Icom A6 Power Supply

I made a cable with a 10 ohm resistor in series with the 12 volt feed from the plane to the A24.  This puts a small charge into the A24 battery, but the radio still operates from its internal battery.  Works fine.  !0 ohms is not too critical.  The wall charger says 200ma.  Dropping 13 volts to 11.7 at 200ma is about 6.5 ohms  Bigger resistor smaller trickle charge.



Jim

_________________
KF2 582

rvtach

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 26
Location: Tucson, AZ

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:01 am Post subject: Re: Icom A6 Power Supply

 	  rose9065f wrote: 	
		  I made a cable with a 10 ohm resistor in series with the 12 volt feed from the plane to the A24.  This puts a small charge into the A24 battery, but the radio still operates from its internal battery.  Works fine.  !0 ohms is not too critical.  The wall charger says 200ma.  Dropping 13 volts to 11.7 at 200ma is about 6.5 ohms  Bigger resistor smaller trickle charge.



Jim 	




I had forgotten I had any experience with this. When I was in charge of aircraft parking for COPPERSTATE Fly-In we used a bunch of A-6s, which as mentioned earlier won't transmit when it's on the charger. Who's idea was that anyway? With heavy use the batteries died in under 2 hours and then we were going through a set of AAs every 30 minutes. Our radio guy did something similar to what Jim here did by soldering a bunch of diodes in series inside the AA adapter battery pack to get the right voltage and then bringing a cable/cigarette lighter plug out to run off my golf cart battery. I don't remember exactly what diodes he used or how many but it worked like a charm. 



If you're is interested I can find out exactly how he did this. Just have to get out to the airport and open up his creation and see exactly what's in there. I'll take a photo or 2 while I'm at it. I see that the AA pack is only about 15 dollars at Chief and the half dozen or so diodes would only cost a couple dollars.



Jim in Tucson

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: Icom A6 Power Supply

 	  Quote: 	
		  The A23 can trickle or boost charge.  I've heard good things about airborne ICOM handhelds (mine works good in flight), and panel mount NAV/COMs are $$$. 	


    I've always had very good luck with Icom radio

    performance (20+ years ago) but I've not acquired

    any experience with newer products. If one assumes

    they've maintained or refined their legacy design

    and business models in a good way, the level

    of customer satisfaction for performance should

    still be very high.



  	  Quote: 	
		    I'd be careful about connecting your A6 directly to aircraft power. 	


    Agreed. But your comments about the power adapter

    putting out 10v raised some new flags. What we're

    needing here is an operating support power source

    to augment batteries . . . not a battery charger.

    The 10V value along with other comments about

    an 11.7 volt transmitter shutdown suggest a

    solution that keeps external power constrained

    to 10-11 volts but without regard to charging

    batteries which is a more demanding protocol.



    Just adding a resistor in series with the power

    lead is problematic . . . because the current

    demands of the radio are all over the place.

    Receiver quiet (squelched) is the lowest drain.

    Receiver working and putting out audio power

    is somewhat higher. Transmitter working is

    MUCH higher.



    So I think it's a pretty safe bet to design a

    noise free (linear) step-down regulator set

    for say 10.5 volts using an LM317 regulator

    from radio shack.



    The data sheet for the LM317 . . .



  http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM117.pdf



    . . . says that with

    a 200 mA load at 50C case temperature on the

    device, the dropout voltage (differential

    between input and output where it looses

    regulation) is on the order of 1.6 volts.



 

 [img]cid:.0[/img]

    This means that a 10.5V regulator crafted

    with this part would maintain regulation 

    performance with an input supply as low

    as 10.5 + 1.6 = 12.1 volts which certainly

    covers all operations with the alternator

    working . . . and if the alternator is not

    working, one can reasonably expect the

    radio to work fine on internal batteries

    for the time it takes to comfortably put

    wheels on the ground. 



    I'm 99% sure that crafting the circuit

    below will produce a power source that

    will operate the radio. It may not charge

    the battery . . . so use the radios normal

    charger(s) to top of batteries before flight.



 [img]cid:.1[/img]



 

 

   Bob . . .

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JOE RONCO

Joined: 04 Aug 2007
Posts: 31
Location: CENTENNIAL COLORADO

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:20 am Post subject: Icom A6 Power Supply

The Batteries America CP-11L might be a good way to go for use with 12 Volt plane power. See:  

   

http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/3490   

   

User reviews at bottom of page give it 4 or 5 stars.  

   

Joe R  

       

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

 Sent: Saturday, August 07, 2010 11:41 AM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Icom A6 Power Supply  

  

  

    	  Quote: 	
		    

The A23 can trickle or boost charge.  I've heard good things about airborne ICOM handhelds (mine works good in flight), and panel mount NAV/COMs are $$$.  	
  



    I've always had very good luck with Icom radio

    performance (20+ years ago) but I've not acquired

    any experience with newer products. If one assumes

    they've maintained or refined their legacy design

    and business models in a good way, the level

    of customer satisfaction for performance should

    still be very high.

 

 

   

  I'd be careful about connecting your A6 directly to aircraft power.   



    Agreed. But your comments about the power adapter

    putting out 10v raised some new flags. What we're

    needing here is an operating support power source

    to augment batteries . . . not a battery charger.

    The 10V value along with other comments about

    an 11.7 volt transmitter shutdown suggest a

    solution that keeps external power constrained

    to 10-11 volts but without regard to charging

    batteries which is a more demanding protocol.

 

    Just adding a resistor in series with the power

    lead is problematic . . . because the current

    demands of the radio are all over the place.

    Receiver quiet (squelched) is the lowest drain.

    Receiver working and putting out audio power

    is somewhat higher. Transmitter working is

    MUCH higher.

 

    So I think it's a pretty safe bet to design a

    noise free (linear) step-down regulator set

    for say 10.5 volts using an LM317 regulator

    from radio shack.

 

    The data sheet for the LM317 . . .

 

 http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM117.pdf

 

    . . . says that with

    a 200 mA load at 50C case temperature on the

    device, the dropout voltage (differential

    between input and output where it looses

    regulation) is on the order of 1.6 volts.

 

 

 [img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01CB3632.59B267C0[/img]

    This means that a 10.5V regulator crafted

    with this part would maintain regulation 

    performance with an input supply as low

    as 10.5 + 1.6 = 12.1 volts which certainly

    covers all operations with the alternator

    working . . . and if the alternator is not

    working, one can reasonably expect the

    radio to work fine on internal batteries

    for the time it takes to comfortably put

    wheels on the ground. 

 

    I'm 99% sure that crafting the circuit

    below will produce a power source that

    will operate the radio. It may not charge

    the battery . . . so use the radios normal

    charger(s) to top of batteries before flight.

 

 [img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01CB3632.59B267C0[/img]

 

 

 

   

  Bob . . .

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rose9065f

Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 10
Location: Pahrump, NV

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Icom A6 Power Supply

" because the current

    demands of the radio are all over the place."

Doesn't matter, the radio is running off its internal battery.  The series resistor is trickle charging.



Simpler is better.



Jim

_________________
KF2 582

skywagon

Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 184

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:39 am Post subject: Icom A6 Power Supply

Jim,

There maybe a small flaw in your "10 ohm" conclusion.

As the A24 battery charges using your method and the voltage rises in the 

battery, the current will taper off.  So far, so good.  However, it will go 

into a mode of such low current that the 10 ohm resister becomes nearly 

invisible.  This then, will allow the A24 battery set to eventually rise to 

the full level of the voltage source....13+ volts.



Maybe this is Ok, most cases it is not.  If the radio is used for just a 

short time during flying and then, disconnected from the 12+ source, most 

likely this will stop any overcharging effect.  If left connected to the 

source voltage, then the A24 battery will eventually reach that value also, 

which could be damaging.....

..2 cents... worth.

David



_________________________________________________________

---

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:44 pm Post subject: Icom A6 Power Supply

At 12:37 PM 8/8/2010, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Jim,

There maybe a small flaw in your "10 ohm" conclusion.

As the A24 battery charges using your method and the voltage rises 

in the battery, the current will taper off.  So far, so 

good.  However, it will go into a mode of such low current that the 

10 ohm resister becomes nearly invisible.  This then, will allow the 

A24 battery set to eventually rise to the full level of the voltage 

source....13+ volts.



Maybe this is Ok, most cases it is not.  If the radio is used for 

just a short time during flying and then, disconnected from the 12+ 

source, most likely this will stop any overcharging effect.  If left 

connected to the source voltage, then the A24 battery will 

eventually reach that value also, which could be damaging.....

...2 cents... worth.

David


	


    Excellent observation Dave. An alternative solution

    was proposed wherein a series of diodes were

    placed in series with the supply line.  Each

    diode contributes its own forward conduction

    drop on the order of .6 volts per diode. This

    approach simply tosses off a relatively fixed

    amount of voltage.



    The problem with both of these configurations

    is that the output voltage to the radio is

    not very stable for all conditions. This

    is why most designers will include some sort

    of active regulation in their external power

    adapters.



    The switchmode device that started this

    thread is the most efficient and can be quite

    small for it's capabilities. But these

    necessarily include POWER oscillators which

    can and do behave like little transmitters.



    The minimum-risk approach for the electronic

    handy-man is some form of linear regulator . . .

    which demands consideration for "head-room"

    or "drop-out" voltage. This is a characteristic

    of all step-down regulators that defines

    how well it performs as the input voltage

    falls toward the same value as the output

    voltage.



    The diagram I posted yesterday promises

    good output regulation with an input as

    low as 1.6 volts above output. There

    are specialty regulators that offer lower

    dropout voltage but as long as we're not

    attempting to charge batteries or get

    rated performance with a dead alternator,

    then the diagram posted offers good value.



   Bob . . .

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