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barryhancock
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285
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 Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:00 am Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Gang,
I had an experience recently that I would like to share with you. First, I want to give you some background, both because many of you don't know me, and I think it's relevant to the issue at hand.
I have had the good fortune to fly Yaks and CJs for over 10 years now. I have ~2000 hrs. of PIC time, mostly in warbirds. For the past several years I have been current in the following aircraft: CJ-6, Yak-50, L-39, and Lancair Legacy. For the past 3 years my CJ and Yak flying time has been more limited due to work and my constant commuting back and forth from Utah to Chino in the Lancair, but I've still managed about 300 hrs./year all combined. In the past few months we have had 3 different ground up restoration CJs get completed and delivered. Part of that process is test flying the freshly restored airplanes, which definitely gets your attention as a pilot. Included in this has been a lot of adjustments with the engine, which necessitates a lot of starting, stopping, tweaking, starting, etc. A lot of in and out of the cockpit. Well, one day, I got lazy.....
On a CJ that I had literally started over a dozen times over the period of several days between test flights, prop governor adjustments, electronic engine monitoring tweaks, etc., I was all set for another test flight. Preflight complete, pulled through, primed and ready, I hit the start button. The engine had been starting flawlessly, so when it didn't start after a few blades I stopped and reprimed. A few more blades and nothing. A few more start attempts...nothing. I decided to get out and start over. So I unstrapped, got out and started to pull the prop through....on the second blade the engine coughed and then roared to life. When it coughed I knew what was coming and jumped out of the way. My guess is the engine was turning about 1400 RPM....no chocks, no brake strap...and it started rolling. In the blink of an eye I spun out of the way and reacted. I knew what was at stake...get the plane stopped quickly or this brand new restoration was going to tear into a hangar down the row.
As the plane was rolling towards me, I got clear of the prop arc and tried to jump up on the front of the wing. My timing was a little off and the wing hit me right in the side of the hip (the bruise still shows 2 months later). Luckily, I landed on my feet. I knew at this point with the plane accelerating that I had one last chance. Simultaneously back peddling and planting to jump up, I grabbed ahold of the canopy rail, pulled myself up, reached in and grabbed the brake handle with my right hand and killed the mags with my left. Where the plane stopped there had been a Piper Cherokee sticking out of it's hangar about 30 minutes before. Another 20 feet further and the wingtip would have grabbed a hangar door and spun the airplane into that hangar with the prop at something above idle. It would have been ugly.
What would have been uglier is my body splattered all over that ramp. I reacted to the situation and luckily things came out OK. I can't count on that luck if it were to happen again. And neither can you.....
So, here are the main things I've learned from this and hopefully you can learn by reading, and not from your own similar event.
1) Familiarity breeds complacency. I had done this so many times recently (and always with the airplane chocked when we were tweaking) I neglected to follow the golden rules: Mags OFF, Throttle IDLE, Parking Brake Set. Any of these three make for a much less exciting event. It only takes one time getting complacent to have a really bad day.
2) Just because you are current, doesn't mean you are proficient. While I had about 10 hours of CJ flying in the last couple of months prior to this, I fly a variety of stuff so my habits for the CJ aren't what they used to be when I flew them almost exclusively. When things got out of the routine, I needed to stop and double check everything.
3) No matter what, follow the golden rules for pulling through the prop. 1) Mags off, 2) throttle idle, and 3) parking brake (in the case of the CJ, a velcro strap) in place.
I got lucky. I could have turned into prop-sui. I could have gotten someone else hurt. The plane could have been destroyed. Lots of other bad things were possible. Honestly, it was my athleticism that saved me...not something I'd like to count on again, and something that left guys like Pappy a few years ago.  - The other thing that saved me was proper technique on pulling the prop through. One thing I have in my head is to treat that prop like a loaded gun. I see guys that get their body in the prop arc when pulling blades through and it makes me cringe. Had I done that, I likely would not be writing this.
Things go well for so long we sometimes forget how narrow the line is between fun and death in this business. I remember now...and hopefully you do to.
Happy Flying!
Barry
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_________________
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Last edited by barryhancock on Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:04 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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byronmfox(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:57 am Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Many, many thanks, Barry. There, but for the grace of God, go all of us.
I tend to rush. Too many times, I've fired-up after refueling at the gas pump only to discover, when shutting down at my hangar, that I failed to turn the air on. Only the air in CJ's plumbing saved me. Very, very sloppy. ...Blitz
On Wed, Sep 22, 2010 at 12:00 PM, barryhancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "barryhancock" <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)>
Gang,
I had an experience recently that I would like to share with you. First, I want to give you some background, both because many of you don't know me, and I think it's relevant to the issue at hand.
I have had the good fortune to fly Yaks and CJs for over 10 years now. I have ~2000 hrs. of PIC time, mostly in warbirds. For the past several years I have been current in the following aircraft: CJ-6, Yak-50, L-39, and Lancair Legacy. For the past 3 years my CJ and Yak flying time has been more limited due to work and my constant commuting back and forth from Utah to Chino in the Lancair, but I've still managed about 300 hrs./year all combined. In the past few months we have had 3 different ground up restoration CJs get completed and delivered. Part of that process is test flying the freshly restored airplanes, which definitely gets your attention as a pilot. Included in this has been a lot of adjustments with the engine, which necessitates a lot of starting, stopping, tweaking, starting, etc. A lot of in and out of the cockpit. Well, one day, I got lazy.....
On a CJ that I had literally started over a dozen times over the period of several days between test flights, prop governor adjustments, electronic engine monitoring tweaks, etc., I was all set for another test flight. Preflight complete, pulled through, primed and ready, I hit the start button. The engine had been starting flawlessly, so when it didn't start after a few blades I stopped and reprimed. A few more blades and nothing. A few more start attempts...nothing. I decided to get out and start over. So I unstrapped, got out and started to pull the prop through....on the second blade the engine coughed and then roared to life. When it coughed I knew what was coming and jumped out of the way. My guess is the engine was turning about 1400 RPM....no chocks, no brake strap...and it started rolling. In the blink of an eye I spun out of the way and reacted. I knew what was at stake...get the plane stopped quickly or this brand new restoration as going to tear into a h!
angar down the row.
As the plane was rolling towards me, I got clear of the prop arc and tried to jump up on the front of the wing. My timing was a little off and the wing hit me right in the side of the hip (the bruise still shows 2 months later). Luckily, I landed on my feet. I knew at this point with the plane accelerating that I had one last chance. Simultaneously back peddling and planting to jump up, I grabbed ahold of the canopy rail, pulled myself up, reached in and grabbed the brake handle with my right hand and killed the mags with my left. Where the plane stopped there had been a Piper Cherokee sticking out of it's hangar about 30 minutes before. Another 20 feet further and the wingtip would have grabbed a hangar door and spun the airplane into that hangar with the prop at something above idle. It would have been ugly.
What would have been uglier is my body splattered all over that ramp. I reacted to the situation and luckily things came out OK. I can't count on that luck if it were to happen again. And neither can you.....
So, here are the main things I've learned from this and hopefully you can learn by reading, and not from your own similar event.
1) Familiarity breeds complacency. I had done this so many times recently (and always with the airplane chocked when we were tweaking) I neglected to follow the golden rules: Mags OFF, Throttle IDLE, Parking Brake Set. Any of these three make for a much less exciting event. It only takes one time getting complacent to have a really bad day.
2) Just because you are current, doesn't mean you are proficient. While I had about 10 hours of CJ flying in the last couple of months prior to this, I fly a variety of stuff so my habits for the CJ isn't what it used to be when I flew them almost exclusively. When things got out of the routine, I needed to stop and double check everything.
3) No matter what, follow the golden rules for pulling through the prop. 1) Mags off, 2) throttle idle, and 3) parking brake (in the case of the CJ, a velcro strap) in place.
I got lucky. I could have turned into prop-sui. I could have gotten someone else hurt. The plane could have been destroyed. Lots of other bad things were possible. Honestly, it was my athleticism that saved me..not something I'd like to count on again, and something that left guys like Pappy a few years ago. - The other thing that saved me was proper technique on pulling the prop through. One thing I have in my head is to treat that prop like a loaded gun. I see guys that get their body in the prop arc when pulling blades through and it makes me cringe. Had I done that, I likely would not be writing this.
Things go well for so long we sometimes forget how narrow the line is between fun and death in this business. I remember now...and hopefully you do to.
Happy Flying!
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(909) 606-4444
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313411#313411
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="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Byron M. Fox
80 Milland Drive
Mill Valley, CA 94941
415-307-2405
[quote][b]
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tigeryak18t
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Hi Barry,
that's remind us all that getting into a plane is never never like jumping on a bicycle and that whatever is our experience we always have to question ourselve and think twice.
Thanks very much to share this experience with us.
Hope it will help me (us) not to make the same mistake.
Fly safe,...., but FLY.
Didier
2010/9/22 barryhancock <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)>
| Quote: | --> Yak-List message posted by: "barryhancock" <bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com (bhancock(at)worldwidewarbirds.com)>
Gang,
I had an experience recently that I would like to share with you. First, I want to give you some background, both because many of you don't know me, and I think it's relevant to the issue at hand.
I have had the good fortune to fly Yaks and CJs for over 10 years now. I have ~2000 hrs. of PIC time, mostly in warbirds. For the past several years I have been current in the following aircraft: CJ-6, Yak-50, L-39, and Lancair Legacy. For the past 3 years my CJ and Yak flying time has been more limited due to work and my constant commuting back and forth from Utah to Chino in the Lancair, but I've still managed about 300 hrs./year all combined. In the past few months we have had 3 different ground up restoration CJs get completed and delivered. Part of that process is test flying the freshly restored airplanes, which definitely gets your attention as a pilot. Included in this has been a lot of adjustments with the engine, which necessitates a lot of starting, stopping, tweaking, starting, etc. A lot of in and out of the cockpit. Well, one day, I got lazy.....
On a CJ that I had literally started over a dozen times over the period of several days between test flights, prop governor adjustments, electronic engine monitoring tweaks, etc., I was all set for another test flight. Preflight complete, pulled through, primed and ready, I hit the start button. The engine had been starting flawlessly, so when it didn't start after a few blades I stopped and reprimed. A few more blades and nothing. A few more start attempts...nothing. I decided to get out and start over. So I unstrapped, got out and started to pull the prop through....on the second blade the engine coughed and then roared to life. When it coughed I knew what was coming and jumped out of the way. My guess is the engine was turning about 1400 RPM....no chocks, no brake strap...and it started rolling. In the blink of an eye I spun out of the way and reacted. I knew what was at stake...get the plane stopped quickly or this brand new restoration as going to tear into a h!
angar down the row.
As the plane was rolling towards me, I got clear of the prop arc and tried to jump up on the front of the wing. My timing was a little off and the wing hit me right in the side of the hip (the bruise still shows 2 months later). Luckily, I landed on my feet. I knew at this point with the plane accelerating that I had one last chance. Simultaneously back peddling and planting to jump up, I grabbed ahold of the canopy rail, pulled myself up, reached in and grabbed the brake handle with my right hand and killed the mags with my left. Where the plane stopped there had been a Piper Cherokee sticking out of it's hangar about 30 minutes before. Another 20 feet further and the wingtip would have grabbed a hangar door and spun the airplane into that hangar with the prop at something above idle. It would have been ugly.
What would have been uglier is my body splattered all over that ramp. I reacted to the situation and luckily things came out OK. I can't count on that luck if it were to happen again. And neither can you.....
So, here are the main things I've learned from this and hopefully you can learn by reading, and not from your own similar event.
1) Familiarity breeds complacency. I had done this so many times recently (and always with the airplane chocked when we were tweaking) I neglected to follow the golden rules: Mags OFF, Throttle IDLE, Parking Brake Set. Any of these three make for a much less exciting event. It only takes one time getting complacent to have a really bad day.
2) Just because you are current, doesn't mean you are proficient. While I had about 10 hours of CJ flying in the last couple of months prior to this, I fly a variety of stuff so my habits for the CJ isn't what it used to be when I flew them almost exclusively. When things got out of the routine, I needed to stop and double check everything.
3) No matter what, follow the golden rules for pulling through the prop. 1) Mags off, 2) throttle idle, and 3) parking brake (in the case of the CJ, a velcro strap) in place.
I got lucky. I could have turned into prop-sui. I could have gotten someone else hurt. The plane could have been destroyed. Lots of other bad things were possible. Honestly, it was my athleticism that saved me..not something I'd like to count on again, and something that left guys like Pappy a few years ago. - The other thing that saved me was proper technique on pulling the prop through. One thing I have in my head is to treat that prop like a loaded gun. I see guys that get their body in the prop arc when pulling blades through and it makes me cringe. Had I done that, I likely would not be writing this.
Things go well for so long we sometimes forget how narrow the line is between fun and death in this business. I remember now...and hopefully you do to.
Happy Flying!
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(909) 606-4444
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313411#313411
===========
rget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List
===========
http://forums.matronics.com
===========
le, List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
--
Didier BLOUZARD
didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com (didier.blouzard(at)gmail.com)
0624243672
[quote][b]
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Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
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radiopicture
Joined: 23 Jun 2008
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:37 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Thanks for sharing. A good week for good advice.
On Sep 22, 2010, at 3:00 PM, barryhancock wrote:
| Quote: |
>
Gang,
I had an experience recently that I would like to share with you.
First, I want to give you some background, both because many of you
don't know me, and I think it's relevant to the issue at hand.
I have had the good fortune to fly Yaks and CJs for over 10 years
now. I have ~2000 hrs. of PIC time, mostly in warbirds. For the
past several years I have been current in the following aircraft:
CJ-6, Yak-50, L-39, and Lancair Legacy. For the past 3 years my CJ
and Yak flying time has been more limited due to work and my
constant commuting back and forth from Utah to Chino in the Lancair,
but I've still managed about 300 hrs./year all combined. In the
past few months we have had 3 different ground up restoration CJs
get completed and delivered. Part of that process is test flying
the freshly restored airplanes, which definitely gets your attention
as a pilot. Included in this has been a lot of adjustments with the
engine, which necessitates a lot of starting, stopping, tweaking,
starting, etc. A lot of in and out of the cockpit. Well, one day,
I got lazy.....
On a CJ that I had literally started over a dozen times over the
period of several days between test flights, prop governor
adjustments, electronic engine monitoring tweaks, etc., I was all
set for another test flight. Preflight complete, pulled through,
primed and ready, I hit the start button. The engine had been
starting flawlessly, so when it didn't start after a few blades I
stopped and reprimed. A few more blades and nothing. A few more
start attempts...nothing. I decided to get out and start over. So I
unstrapped, got out and started to pull the prop through....on the
second blade the engine coughed and then roared to life. When it
coughed I knew what was coming and jumped out of the way. My guess
is the engine was turning about 1400 RPM....no chocks, no brake
strap...and it started rolling. In the blink of an eye I spun out
of the way and reacted. I knew what was at stake...get the plane
stopped quickly or this brand new restoration as going to tear into
a h!
angar down the row.
As the plane was rolling towards me, I got clear of the prop arc and
tried to jump up on the front of the wing. My timing was a little
off and the wing hit me right in the side of the hip (the bruise
still shows 2 months later). Luckily, I landed on my feet. I knew
at this point with the plane accelerating that I had one last
chance. Simultaneously back peddling and planting to jump up, I
grabbed ahold of the canopy rail, pulled myself up, reached in and
grabbed the brake handle with my right hand and killed the mags with
my left. Where the plane stopped there had been a Piper Cherokee
sticking out of it's hangar about 30 minutes before. Another 20
feet further and the wingtip would have grabbed a hangar door and
spun the airplane into that hangar with the prop at something above
idle. It would have been ugly.
What would have been uglier is my body splattered all over that
ramp. I reacted to the situation and luckily things came out OK. I
can't count on that luck if it were to happen again. And neither
can you.....
So, here are the main things I've learned from this and hopefully
you can learn by reading, and not from your own similar event.
1) Familiarity breeds complacency. I had done this so many times
recently (and always with the airplane chocked when we were
tweaking) I neglected to follow the golden rules: Mags OFF,
Throttle IDLE, Parking Brake Set. Any of these three make for a
much less exciting event. It only takes one time getting complacent
to have a really bad day.
2) Just because you are current, doesn't mean you are proficient.
While I had about 10 hours of CJ flying in the last couple of months
prior to this, I fly a variety of stuff so my habits for the CJ
isn't what it used to be when I flew them almost exclusively. When
things got out of the routine, I needed to stop and double check
everything.
3) No matter what, follow the golden rules for pulling through the
prop. 1) Mags off, 2) throttle idle, and 3) parking brake (in the
case of the CJ, a velcro strap) in place.
I got lucky. I could have turned into prop-sui. I could have
gotten someone else hurt. The plane could have been destroyed.
Lots of other bad things were possible. Honestly, it was my
athleticism that saved me...not something I'd like to count on
again, and something that left guys like Pappy a few years
ago. - The other thing that saved me was proper technique on
pulling the prop through. One thing I have in my head is to treat
that prop like a loaded gun. I see guys that get their body in the
prop arc when pulling blades through and it makes me cringe. Had I
done that, I likely would not be writing this.
Things go well for so long we sometimes forget how narrow the line
is between fun and death in this business. I remember now...and
hopefully you do to.
Happy Flying!
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(909) 606-4444
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313411#313411
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:39 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Barry,
Just wanted to tell you something publicly. All your excellent points aside, what impresses me more than anything else is your honesty and humility. It took a lot of guts to tell that story and I just want you to know I recognize and respect that fact. A lot.
Mark Bitterlich
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of barryhancock
Sent: Wed 9/22/2010 3:00 PM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue
Gang,
I had an experience recently that I would like to share with you. First, I want to give you some background, both because many of you don't know me, and I think it's relevant to the issue at hand.
I have had the good fortune to fly Yaks and CJs for over 10 years now. I have ~2000 hrs. of PIC time, mostly in warbirds. For the past several years I have been current in the following aircraft: CJ-6, Yak-50, L-39, and Lancair Legacy. For the past 3 years my CJ and Yak flying time has been more limited due to work and my constant commuting back and forth from Utah to Chino in the Lancair, but I've still managed about 300 hrs./year all combined. In the past few months we have had 3 different ground up restoration CJs get completed and delivered. Part of that process is test flying the freshly restored airplanes, which definitely gets your attention as a pilot. Included in this has been a lot of adjustments with the engine, which necessitates a lot of starting, stopping, tweaking, starting, etc. A lot of in and out of the cockpit. Well, one day, I got lazy.....
On a CJ that I had literally started over a dozen times over the period of several days between test flights, prop governor adjustments, electronic engine monitoring tweaks, etc., I was all set for another test flight. Preflight complete, pulled through, primed and ready, I hit the start button. The engine had been starting flawlessly, so when it didn't start after a few blades I stopped and reprimed. A few more blades and nothing. A few more start attempts...nothing. I decided to get out and start over. So I unstrapped, got out and started to pull the prop through....on the second blade the engine coughed and then roared to life. When it coughed I knew what was coming and jumped out of the way. My guess is the engine was turning about 1400 RPM....no chocks, no brake strap...and it started rolling. In the blink of an eye I spun out of the way and reacted. I knew what was at stake...get the plane stopped quickly or this brand new restoration as going to tear into a h!
angar down the row.
As the plane was rolling towards me, I got clear of the prop arc and tried to jump up on the front of the wing. My timing was a little off and the wing hit me right in the side of the hip (the bruise still shows 2 months later). Luckily, I landed on my feet. I knew at this point with the plane accelerating that I had one last chance. Simultaneously back peddling and planting to jump up, I grabbed ahold of the canopy rail, pulled myself up, reached in and grabbed the brake handle with my right hand and killed the mags with my left. Where the plane stopped there had been a Piper Cherokee sticking out of it's hangar about 30 minutes before. Another 20 feet further and the wingtip would have grabbed a hangar door and spun the airplane into that hangar with the prop at something above idle. It would have been ugly.
What would have been uglier is my body splattered all over that ramp. I reacted to the situation and luckily things came out OK. I can't count on that luck if it were to happen again. And neither can you.....
So, here are the main things I've learned from this and hopefully you can learn by reading, and not from your own similar event.
1) Familiarity breeds complacency. I had done this so many times recently (and always with the airplane chocked when we were tweaking) I neglected to follow the golden rules: Mags OFF, Throttle IDLE, Parking Brake Set. Any of these three make for a much less exciting event. It only takes one time getting complacent to have a really bad day.
2) Just because you are current, doesn't mean you are proficient. While I had about 10 hours of CJ flying in the last couple of months prior to this, I fly a variety of stuff so my habits for the CJ isn't what it used to be when I flew them almost exclusively. When things got out of the routine, I needed to stop and double check everything.
3) No matter what, follow the golden rules for pulling through the prop. 1) Mags off, 2) throttle idle, and 3) parking brake (in the case of the CJ, a velcro strap) in place.
I got lucky. I could have turned into prop-sui. I could have gotten someone else hurt. The plane could have been destroyed. Lots of other bad things were possible. Honestly, it was my athleticism that saved me...not something I'd like to count on again, and something that left guys like Pappy a few years ago. - The other thing that saved me was proper technique on pulling the prop through. One thing I have in my head is to treat that prop like a loaded gun. I see guys that get their body in the prop arc when pulling blades through and it makes me cringe. Had I done that, I likely would not be writing this.
Things go well for so long we sometimes forget how narrow the line is between fun and death in this business. I remember now...and hopefully you do to.
Happy Flying!
Barry
--------
Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
(909) 606-4444
www.worldwidewarbirds.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313411#313411
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vectorwarbirds(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:35 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Good to hear all went well.
I can't remember who it was but the same thing happened several years ago at a airshow I believe, it was a Nanchang flight and they had to shut down and wait for the proceeding act to finish. Thinking about hydraulic lock the pilot got out and pulled the prop through and it started. It hit him in the shoulder and elsewhere with devastating results. Does anyone remember who that CJ pilot was? This is exactly why I have an external mag indicator on my Nanchang Haiyan C, one glance from in front of the engine and I can tell where the mags are. No brainer. And why there is still discussion about oil shut off valves is beyond me, they are a no brainer as well, you have to have one or your just well, use your imagination.
TGB
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barryhancock
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Mark, thanks. In my mind the important thing is to try to help others avoid our mistakes....
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
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| Posted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:07 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Barry,
First, thanks for your candor. Second, the culture of excellance that the RPA has been cultivating welcomes the openes of "there I was" experiences that benefit all of the RPA aircraft owners. That is the culture that exists in Army, Air Force, and Navy flying safety programs. Blame is not what those programs are about. Awareness of the incident and the series of minor events that lead up to the incident or accident, as it would be, are what those programs are about.
The whole purpose of a flying safety program is to educate the aviators. Flying safety is not about embaressment or assignment of blame. That is better left up to the accident investigation board under the perview of the NTSB.
Thanks Barry for bearing your soul. Glad you survived the incident. What you have done may save someone else's life.
Doc
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sajdds(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:45 am Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Given how easy it is to make a mistake or to have the mag cutoff fail what is the correct way to hold and to swing a prop? I would also be interested in knowing the safest way to hand start the M14P.
Steve Johnson
Yak-52 N9900X
0B5
413 522-1130 Cell
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barryhancock
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Steve,
I'm glad you asked! First, treat it like a loaded gun. Assuming you've already double checked the mags are off, throttle is at idle, and parking brake is engaged, the main thing is to keep your body parts out of the prop arc and when you pull on the blades have your weight pulling not only across the prop arc, but away from it so if it did fire you would fall away from the prop. On the Housai I can swing the blade pretty easily with on hand, kind of like a softball pitch (which is luckily what I was doing on that fateful day). On the M14P, that's not easy, at best. So, because the M14P requires more force to move the blades, it takes two hands. Again, the big thing is to have all your parts clear of the arc and lean slightly away from the prop as you pull it through.
I doubt you'll get anyone to give you advice on how to hand prop on this forum....but I offer this for your consideration.
http://wn.com/FAA_Hand-Propping_Accident_Video
There are online sources and guides to hand propping, but it's dangerous business...
Happy Flying,
Barry
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wlannon(at)persona.ca
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:01 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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I will describe the method I have used for many years to hand start small, direct drive, aircraft engines but first there are rules that you ignore at your peril.
1. There must be a qualified person in the cockpit.
2. There must be an agreed and fully understood set of challenges and respnses between that person and you.
3. The propellor must have no more than two blades.
4. There must be a prop. blade position available with a piston at TDC that is at a comfortable height for you. Neither too low, causing you to bend toward the prop. or too high causing a stretch that may put you off balance or reach TDC while you are still pulling.
5. Good ground conditions at prop. area. No loose gravel, wet grass, snow, ice, etc. to compromise footing.
If not already familiar with the aircraft the first step, before priming, is to determine if rule # 4 can be met. Your challenge would be "Brakes set, Throttle closed, Mixture lean, Switches off" After receiving the same response pull the prop through preferrably from the tip while keeping all parts of your body out of the prop. arc until you determine if an adequate blade position is possible. Even though you are absolutley certain that the engine can not possibly start you must handle the prop. as though it were live. Use the number of fingertips you think you can live without and stay to hell out of the prop arc.
It may be be necessary to repeat that procedure with the engine primed in order to return to the best blade position. The same cautions apply but much more critically..
Primed and ready to start. Challenge " Brakes set, Throttle set (best start position - usually just slightly above idle), Switch on, Contact". Same response received. With both hands slightly ouboard of mid blade, body position leaning slightly towards prop with no bending, one foot forward then step backwards as you pull down and release blade just before TDC. Done correctly you will be a full step, or two, away as the engine starts.
As noted above this procedure applies to direct drive engines. I do not believe there is any SAFE method of hand starting a geared engine such as the Huosai and M14. Of course it has been done many times but I do not recommend it. With a 3 blade propellor installed I would consider it suicidal.
Walt
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tigeryak18t
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE
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| Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:41 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Indeed,
it is easy to make a mistake......yes and no!!!
In the world of safety, there are always multiples factors leading you to a risk.
So if there is one point of procedure not usual, question yourself and find the reason before going further.
But mainly youcan get away of a lot of risk by following procedures.
Because following procedures let your mind plenty of time to take in account the unpredictable events.
We have the luck to have a few people on this list giving us good procedures so read them, make them yours and apply them systematicaly.
For hand starting .... I have never read any procedure.... just a few : "pull and stay away of the blade" .
I've heard some of the good eastern mechanic say that they start with a rope (a buckle over one blade) in order to avoid being in front or close to the prop.
So apply procedures and be safe....well...safer!!!
Didier
2010/9/23 <sajdds(at)comcast.net (sajdds(at)comcast.net)>
[quote] Given how easy it is to make a mistake or to have the mag cutoff fail what is the correct way to hold and to swing a prop? I would also be interested in knowing the safest way to hand start the M14P.
Steve Johnson
Yak-52 N9900X
0B5
413 522-1130 Cell
---
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barryhancock
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:44 am Post subject: Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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I was actually looking for the rope trick video...it circulated awhile back. Anyone have it or know where it is? That makes a lot of sense to me, so does standing behind the blades!
Barry
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cabbott(at)dragnet.com.au
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 3:24 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Guys.
Cant help but to comment, whilst best practices are always good, all
accidents are a sequence of events that until lined up may never happen!
My story goes this way, I have a yak 52 built 1990 VH-YAV, am an avid
pilot (390hrs and 98 in type), Drag racer (2007 championship winner HD
Destroyer 9.38sec 147mph ) Flat track racer (HD XR 750, good mates and
raced with Jay Springsteen), a Scuba instructor (wreck, deep 60m+ with
over 2000 dives logged) and in excess of 20 years of experience
monitoring and teaching safety around construction and heavy
equipment, ridden motorcycles 1.1 million kilometers including one
trip around the world, to base camp tibetan side, seen war in lebanon
"85", Sahara desert, look if it had horsepower, speed and calculated
danger i was into it. Farm raised, a mechanic and tekkie for some 32
years I am very fastidious about maintenance, build all my race
engines and do all my setups so my yak starts extremely easily!
My sequence of events go this way : - Some 18 months prior to getting
in the way of the prop i had treatment for cancer and subsequent
chemo, with this a couple of business worries and a foggy head! during
the whole 18 month period of treatment and recovery i had to attend to
business (partner rip off problems), this left me with a "busy mind".
At midday on April 4th 2008, even though the night before we had a
late one (tired but not hung over) i dragged the yak out to take a
client for a "deal clincher", done my normal pre flight and noticed
that both the battery and air was a little low during this i received
an argumentative phone call from a previous supplier of the business,
after i sat for a while to try to calm down, a short time had elapsed
and i felt ready to go ahead, primed the engine, jumped in the cockpit
to fire it up and taxi to the fuel bowser, whilst even though it
started easily with the low air and battery it stopped quickly ! this
then lead to the sequence that would end in tears, i was concerned
that if i just primed and tried starting on the air it would not have
enough to pull the fuel through so i jumped out to pull through by
hand and to conserve air, looked back to do a check "mags off etc" and
reverted to my instinct of turning things anti clock ways for "off"
and subsequently turned the mags on, the little voice told me this was
incorrect but i assured myself it wasn't (no glasses didn't check the
numbers), slid over the front of the wing to make it quicker (didn't
touch the prop!) checked the oil drain to make sure that it was closed
(once again didn't touch the prop) looked at the prop, it was at
approximately the 1:35 position, made the decision to pull it down to
a position where i could get to it easily, i stepped in and reached
under the blade rather than lift the lower blade (quicker this was the
final sequence that would see me in and out of surgery for the next
couple of years), as as soon as i touched it it immediately fired
backwards for about 3 blades (fortunately as this pushed me back) then
jumped into a very nice fast forward idle striking my arms and legs as
i tried getting out of the way.
The sequence of events that lined up were as follows
• Tired.
• Busy Brain.
• Distracted by phone call.
• Low air (start solenoid was partially activated).
• Low battery (shower of sparks remained active).
• In a hurry and happy to accept the low air and battery.
• Compromised standing position and sequence for pulling through.
The engrained safety in me saved a much worse incident as i had
applied the brake, turned on the air and never once placed my head or
the core of my body in a position of rotating danger.
Hope this helps to keep the sequences out of sync and a sense of what
can happen when distracted (couple of photos attached to remind)
Thankyou
Chris Abbott
On 24/09/2010, at 4:38 PM, Didier Blouzard wrote:
Indeed,
it is easy to make a mistake......yes and no!!!
In the world of safety, there are always multiples factors leading you
to a risk.
So if there is one point of procedure not usual, question yourself and
find the reason before going further.
But mainly youcan get away of a lot of risk by following procedures.
Because following procedures let your mind plenty of time to take in
account the unpredictable events.
We have the luck to have a few people on this list giving us good
procedures so read them, make them yours and apply them systematicaly.
For hand starting .... I have never read any procedure.... just a
few : "pull and stay away of the blade" .
I've heard some of the good eastern mechanic say that they start with
a rope (a buckle over one blade) in order to avoid being in front or
close to the prop.
So apply procedures and be safe....well...safer!!!
Didier
2010/9/23 <sajdds(at)comcast.net>
Given how easy it is to make a mistake or to have the mag cutoff fail
what is the correct way to hold and to swing a prop? I would also be
interested in knowing the safest way to hand start the M14P.
Steve Johnson
Yak-52 N9900X
0B5
413 522-1130 Cell
---
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Vic
Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Southern Bavaria
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:37 pm Post subject: Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Hello,
I would never dare to handprop a M14P with a standard magneto with fixed timing of 23 degrees before TDC . Normal procedure is to start the engine on the shower of sparks with retarded timing a bit after TDC and magneto off. So when handpropping with hot magneto you risk a heavy kickback you are possibly not prepared to deal with. All sorts of consequences may follow after that.
A few weeks ago we had a pilotless Yak 55 circling for ages on the grass till it went into the woods. Watch this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aO-iGcRAkms
Vic
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keithmckinley
Joined: 11 Aug 2008
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Barry,
Mark said it best and I echo his thoughts. Glad your OK! Thank you for sharing...
I could have done without those pictures that got posted in the thread!
Keith
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f4ffm2(at)roadrunner.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Keith and all,
I think the pictures were extremely important....I can't think of a better exclamation point after the discussion that has gone on here. Chris Abbot...thanks for posting.
Roger Baker
On Sep 24, 2010, at 5:45 PM, keithmckinley wrote:
| Quote: |
Barry,
Mark said it best and I echo his thoughts. Glad your OK! Thank you for sharing...
I could have done without those pictures that got posted in the thread!
Keith
--------
Keith McKinley
700HS
KFIT
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=313667#313667
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jan.mevis(at)informavia.b
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:22 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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Thanks a lot, Chris! Thank God you survived it!
I recently handstarted a 52, inadvertently, because I FORGOT TO PUT BACK A
P-LEAD after maintenance.
I was very lucky having someone in the cockpit, with the brakes set. It
scared the hell out of me, seeing this huge prop come to live at 2 inches
from my nose.Bottomline of the story: I was interrupted when working on the
engine. It should not happen, but it does.
Since then, for startup, I proceed exactly as Mark prescribed it,
religiously.
Like someone else on the list said: treat the prop as if it were a loaded
gun.
Jan
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tigeryak18t
Joined: 26 Sep 2009
Posts: 233
Location: PARIS FRANCE
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| Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:47 pm Post subject: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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|
Very very impressive
Particularly when reading your experience of risk management.
This brings me to enhance two points:
1) amazingly, whatever experience we have in aeronautic the risks are the same
2) when there is anything unusual we have to raise the attention and search for the reason
Nothing is irrelevant.
Thanks a lot for sharing
Didier Blouzard
+33 6 2424 3672
Le 25 sept. 2010 à 01:20, CHRIS ABBOTT <cabbott(at)dragnet.com.au> a écrit :
[quote] Guys.
Cant help but to comment, whilst best practices are always good, all accidents are a sequence of events that until lined up may never happen!
My story goes this way, I have a yak 52 built 1990 VH-YAV, am an avid pilot (390hrs and 98 in type), Drag racer (2007 championship winner HD Destroyer 9.38sec 147mph ) Flat track racer (HD XR 750, good mates and raced with Jay Springsteen), a Scuba instructor (wreck, deep 60m+ with over 2000 dives logged) and in excess of 20 years of experience monitoring and teaching safety around construction and heavy equipment, ridden motorcycles 1.1 million kilometers including one trip around the world, to base camp tibetan side, seen war in lebanon "85", Sahara desert, look if it had horsepower, speed and calculated danger i was into it. Farm raised, a mechanic and tekkie for some 32 years I am very fastidious about maintenance, build all my race engines and do all my setups so my yak starts extremely easily!
My sequence of events go this way : - Some 18 months prior to getting in the way of the prop i had treatment for cancer and subsequent chemo, with this a couple of business worries and a foggy head! during the whole 18 month period of treatment and recovery i had to attend to business (partner rip off problems), this left me with a "busy mind".
At midday on April 4th 2008, even though the night before we had a late one (tired but not hung over) i dragged the yak out to take a client for a "deal clincher", done my normal pre flight and noticed that both the battery and air was a little low during this i received an argumentative phone call from a previous supplier of the business, after i sat for a while to try to calm down, a short time had elapsed and i felt ready to go ahead, primed the engine, jumped in the cockpit to fire it up and taxi to the fuel bowser, whilst even though it started easily with the low air and battery it stopped quickly ! this then lead to the sequence that would end in tears, i was concerned that if i just primed and tried starting on the air it would not have enough to pull the fuel through so i jumped out to pull through by hand and to conserve air, looked back to do a check "mags off etc" and reverted to my instinct of turning things anti clock ways for "off" and subsequently turned the mags on, the little voice told me this was incorrect but i assured myself it wasn't (no glasses didn't check the numbers), slid over the front of the wing to make it quicker (didn't touch the prop!) checked the oil drain to make sure that it was closed (once again didn't touch the prop) looked at the prop, it was at approximately the 1:35 position, made the decision to pull it down to a position where i could get to it easily, i stepped in and reached under the blade rather than lift the lower blade (quicker this was the final sequence that would see me in and out of surgery for the next couple of years), as as soon as i touched it it immediately fired backwards for about 3 blades (fortunately as this pushed me back) then jumped into a very nice fast forward idle striking my arms and legs as i tried getting out of the way.
The sequence of events that lined up were as follows
• Tired.
• Busy Brain.
• Distracted by phone call.
• Low air (start solenoid was partially activated).
• Low battery (shower of sparks remained active).
• In a hurry and happy to accept the low air and battery.
• Compromised standing position and sequence for pulling through.
The engrained safety in me saved a much worse incident as i had applied the brake, turned on the air and never once placed my head or the core of my body in a position of rotating danger.
Hope this helps to keep the sequences out of sync and a sense of what can happen when distracted (couple of photos attached to remind)
<IMG_0208.jpg>
<IMG_0205.jpg>
<P4280039.jpg>
Thankyou
Chris Abbott
On 24/09/2010, at 4:38 PM, Didier Blouzard wrote:
Indeed,
it is easy to make a mistake......yes and no!!!
In the world of safety, there are always multiples factors leading you to a risk.
So if there is one point of procedure not usual, question yourself and find the reason before going further.
But mainly youcan get away of a lot of risk by following procedures.
Because following procedures let your mind plenty of time to take in account the unpredictable events.
We have the luck to have a few people on this list giving us good procedures so read them, make them yours and apply them systematicaly.
For hand starting .... I have never read any procedure.... just a few : "pull and stay away of the blade" .
I've heard some of the good eastern mechanic say that they start with a rope (a buckle over one blade) in order to avoid being in front or close to the prop.
So apply procedures and be safe....well...safer!!!
Didier
2010/9/23 <sajdds(at)comcast.net>
Given how easy it is to make a mistake or to have the mag cutoff fail what is the correct way to hold and to swing a prop? I would also be interested in knowing the safest way to hand start the M14P.
Steve Johnson
Yak-52 N9900X
0B5
413 522-1130 Cell
---
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_________________
Didier Tiger YAK18T
Member of Commemorative Air Force
French Wing |
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barryhancock
Joined: 09 Oct 2008
Posts: 285
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:11 am Post subject: Re: Getting caught off guard, a life and death issue |
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|
Didier,
That was my main point....the prop doesn't know/care whether you have 200 hours or 20,000 hours. Nor does the ground or anything else. Hopefully we've all be flying a lot this summer, and hopefully we take the time to step back and make sure we are not getting complacent!
Barry
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Barry Hancock
Worldwide Warbirds, Inc.
www.worldwidewarbirds.com |
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