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andysilvester
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 5
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 Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:49 am Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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Received from Jabiru recently, this is news that they changed the bearing material for the rockers. However, some are reporting issues when this new material is used on the 'old' rocker lubrication system. Here's it is, for general information and awareness (if in doubt, call your Jabiru dealer):
Dear Jabiru Dealers and Maintenance Organisations,
We have recently introduced a new type of valve rocker bush material, as shown in the attached photos. This material has been used in South Africa for some time with no problems but we have found several cases in Australia where the yellow bush material degraded very quickly in service – within the first hours of operation. All the issues so far have been in hydraulic lifter type engines using the old rocker lubrication system – i.e. hydraulic lifter engines with an external oil feed pipe from the crankcase to the cylinder head and solid lifter types.
Engines where the oil feed for the rockers is carried by hollow pushrods are not affected.
There are no production engines of this configuration so at the moment this alert does not affect new production engines.
If you have fitted any of these type bushes to any engine with an external oil feed pipe please have the engine inspected and let us know if there are any issues. The inspection can be carried out by removing the rocker covers and checking the rockers for slop or for any yellow residue. We are also interested to hear if everything is fine, so please tell us how many engines you have checked and what the inspections found.
While the investigation is happening these bushes must not be fitted to any engine with an external oil feed pipe. If you need any of the old type bushes in a hurry in the meantime please let us know.
Thank you,
Doug Smith
Engineer, Jabiru Aircraft
The pics attached show the new material (I admit to looking at my calendar to see if it was April 1st). I know I'm 'old-school', but what's wrong with sintered bronze (oilite) for this job? Swiss cheese, anyone?
C'mon Lynn, I bet you have a comment.....!
Cheers, Andy
| | - The Matronics JabiruEngine-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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pete(at)usjabiru.com
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:34 am Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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Let's be clear here - - these rocker bushes have only been retrofitted to some existing engines and no one buying a new engine will not be getting rockers fitted with the new material.
Pete
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rickofudall
Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:07 pm Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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.."no one buying a new engine will not be getting rockers fitted with the
new material."
Huh?
Rick Girard
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Pete Krotje <pete(at)usjabiru.com> wrote:
[quote]
Let's be clear here - - these rocker bushes have only been retrofitted to
some existing engines and no one buying a new engine will not be getting
rockers fitted with the new material.
Pete
--
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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy.... |
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plus2s
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 65
Location: NEW ZEALAND
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| Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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That's American for "all new engines have the new material"
--- On Thu, 4/11/10, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> wrote:
[quote] From: Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: New rocker bushing material - possible issue
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Thursday, 4, November, 2010, 10:04 AM
..."no one
buying a new engine will not be getting rockers fitted with
the new material."
Huh?
Rick Girard
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at
2:28 PM, Pete Krotje <pete(at)usjabiru.com>
wrote:
Krotje" <pete(at)usjabiru.com>
Let's be clear here - - these rocker bushes have only
been retrofitted to some existing engines and no one buying
a new engine will not be getting rockers fitted with the new
material.
Pete
--
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:45 am Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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As Newman said to the cops when they showed up at his door...."What
took you so long?" (Seinfeld episode)
I typed the above before I looked at the pictures. After seeing the
pictures, I can only say....What the (bleep)???
I guess this proves that the Australian mice/rats are bigger than the
African mice/rats. 
Yeah, Andy, my (home-serviced) replacement bushings have been working
just fine for over 800 hours now, in my antiquated external oil feed
and solid-lifter engine. There are times when engineers should just
use what has worked for years and years (plain old metal bushing
material) and NOT try space-age materials that perhaps haven't been
proven in the application.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying...1065 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
On Nov 3, 2010, at 2:49 PM, andysilvester wrote:
| Quote: |
<andy(at)cimaer.com.br>
Received from Jabiru recently, this is news that they changed the
bearing material for the rockers. However, some are reporting
issues when this new material is used on the 'old' rocker
lubrication system. Here's it is, for general information and
awareness (if in doubt, call your Jabiru dealer):
Dear Jabiru Dealers and Maintenance Organisations,
We have recently introduced a new type of valve rocker bush
material, as shown in the attached photos. This material has been
used in South Africa for some time with no problems but we have
found several cases in Australia where the yellow bush material
degraded very quickly in service – within the first hours of
operation. All the issues so far have been in hydraulic lifter
type engines using the old rocker lubrication system – i.e.
hydraulic lifter engines with an external oil feed pipe from the
crankcase to the cylinder head and solid lifter types.
Engines where the oil feed for the rockers is carried by hollow
pushrods are not affected.
There are no production engines of this configuration so at the
moment this alert does not affect new production engines.
If you have fitted any of these type bushes to any engine with an
external oil feed pipe please have the engine inspected and let us
know if there are any issues. The inspection can be carried out by
removing the rocker covers and checking the rockers for slop or for
any yellow residue. We are also interested to hear if everything
is fine, so please tell us how many engines you have checked and
what the inspections found.
While the investigation is happening these bushes must not be
fitted to any engine with an external oil feed pipe. If you need
any of the old type bushes in a hurry in the meantime please let us
know.
Thank you,
Doug Smith
Engineer, Jabiru Aircraft
The pics attached show the new material (I admit to looking at my
calendar to see if it was April 1st). I know I'm 'old-school', but
what's wrong with sintered bronze (oilite) for this job? Swiss
cheese, anyone?
C'mon Lynn, I bet you have a comment.....!
Cheers, Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318059#318059
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_new_rocker_bushing_2_134.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/jab_new_rocker_bushing_1_637.jpg
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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pete(at)usjabiru.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:36 am Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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Let me rephrase – no one buying a new engine will be getting rockers fitted with the new material
Pete
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 4:05 PM
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: New rocker bushing material - possible issue
..."no one buying a new engine will not be getting rockers fitted with the new material."
Huh?
Rick Girard
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 2:28 PM, Pete Krotje <pete(at)usjabiru.com (pete(at)usjabiru.com)> wrote:
--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "Pete Krotje" <pete(at)usjabiru.com (pete(at)usjabiru.com)>
Let's be clear here - - these rocker bushes have only been retrofitted to some existing engines and no one buying a new engine will not be getting rockers fitted with the new material.
Pete
--
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andysilvester
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:19 am Post subject: Re: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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That’s not what the notice says, Pete, unless Doug at Jabiru has changed his mind and told you but no-one else.
The notice draws attention to using the new bushing material with externally-fed rocker lubrication; this seems to be the combination where failures have occurred. He says ‘There are no production engines of this configuration so at the moment this alert does not affect new production engines’, but since new production engines are fitted with hollow pushrods, they can (and presumably do) use the new bushing material. Nowhere does he say that they have withdrawn the new yellow material from production engines using hollow pushrods.
Andy
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:37 am Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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Hey Andy/Pete/others-
Do you suppose the folks over at the Yahoo Jabiru group would be
interested in this topic?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying...1065 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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andysilvester
Joined: 03 Nov 2010
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2010 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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Yes, Lynn, I think the Yahoo Groupers would be interested but to be honest, the system of linking pictures to text there is cr(at)p. You have to post the pictures in a separate files or pictures section and for me, the whole ease-of-communication and impact for illustrated text is lost.
Also, Pete's made the point adequately that this SHOULD not be an issue that will affect loads of owners, at least as far as we know from Jabiru now. I posted it for technical interest purposes, and to get the pics next to the text is what it's all about. Let's hear it yet again for the Matronics 'web' format.......
Cheers, Andy
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:41 am Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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I'll second the Matronics vote...a much better vehicle for ease of
access, etc....I wish we were all over here, rather than there, or
better yet, both if that need be.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying...1065 hrs (since 3-27-2006)
do not archive
On Nov 4, 2010, at 4:33 PM, andysilvester wrote:
| Quote: |
<andy(at)cimaer.com.br>
Yes, Lynn, I think the Yahoo Groupers would be interested but to be
honest, the system of linking pictures to text there is cr(at)p. You
have to post the pictures in a separate files or pictures section
and for me, the whole ease-of-communication and impact for
illustrated text is lost.
Also, Pete's made the point adequately that this SHOULD not be an
issue that will affect loads of owners, at least as far as we know
from Jabiru now. I posted it for technical interest purposes, and
to get the pics next to the text is what it's all about. Let's hear
it yet again for the Matronics 'web' format.......
Cheers, Andy
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=318159#318159
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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dacourtn
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 2
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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Jabiru's disclaimer that this has only occurred on external oiler engines is not true. I have a Jabiru 3300, Serial Number 33A1687. As part of a warranty repair to the heads which included replacing the slow-bleed lifters with quick-bleed lifters, Pete recommended that I also convert to the internal oiler upgrade, which I did. All head work was performed by Jabiru USA. After about six hours of run time I pulled the rocker covers to re-torque the heads and found a lot of bright yellow debris in the heads and oil filter. I called Pete and he told me it was just the ends of the rocker bushings, that that was "NORMAL" and "Wasn't a problem".
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| Although a little hard to see, this shows the multiple pieces in the oil filter. |
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| These are two of the larger pieces behind the rocker cover. |
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BARRY CHECK 6
Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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NOT A PROBLEM!
Are the particles floating around inside your engine? <--- Problem.
Can the particles access points such as oil galleys? <--- Problem
Can the particles wedge themselves between cylinder and rings? <--- Problem
HELL YEA! It is a problem.
Get that answer in writing and also have the warranty state it will cover any problems.
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 3:38 PM, dacourtn <dacourtn(at)yahoo.com (dacourtn(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dacourtn" <dacourtn(at)yahoo.com (dacourtn(at)yahoo.com)>
Jabiru's disclaimer that this has only occurred on external oiler engines is not true. I have a Jabiru 3300, Serial Number 33A1687. As part of a warranty repair to the heads which included replacing the slow-bleed lifters with quick-bleed lifters, Pete recommended that I also convert to the internal oiler upgrade, which I did. All head work was performed by Jabiru USA. After about six hours of run time I pulled the rocker covers to re-torque the heads and found a lot of bright yellow debris in the heads and oil filter. I called Pete and he told me it was just the ends of the rocker bushings, that that was "NORMAL" and "Wasn't a problem".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390988#390988
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2_from_oil_filter_987.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/1_from_rocker_cover_549.jpg
===========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
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-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
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zcrj90(at)yahoo.co.uk
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:27 am Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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Slightly horrified about this one. I recall the Fox having a bushing problem but that was years ago.
Pete is quoted here and elsewhere about 'normal' regarding having debris in the engine. Doesn't sound right maybe he can explain either; he's been misquoted, or why it's OK and where this 'spare' material is coming from and why it's OK.
Is there no end to jabiru's incompetence when it comes to this lovely engine?
Can they not learn a little from previous debacles?
The downward spiral continues, lets hope we don't have any aircraft that are part of the trend.
Best for 13 guys! Clive
From: FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, 27 December 2012, 0:10
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: New rocker bushing material - possible issue
NOT A PROBLEM!
Are the particles floating around inside your engine? <--- Problem.
Can the particles access points such as oil galleys? <--- Problem
Can the particles wedge themselves between cylinder and rings? <--- Problem
HELL YEA! It is a problem.
Get that answer in writing and also have the warranty state it will cover any problems.
On Wed, Dec 26, 2012 at 3:38 PM, dacourtn <dacourtn(at)yahoo.com (dacourtn(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "dacourtn" <dacourtn(at)yahoo.com (dacourtn(at)yahoo.com)>
Jabiru's disclaimer that this has only occurred on external oiler engines is not true. I have a Jabiru 3300, Serial Number 33A1687. As part of a warranty repair to the heads which included replacing the slow-bleed lifters with quick-bleed lifters, Pete recommended that I also convert to the internal oiler upgrade, which I did. All head work was performed by Jabiru USA. After about six hours of run time I pulled the rocker covers to re-torque the heads and found a lot of bright yellow debris in the heads and oil filter. I called Pete and he told me it was just the ends of the rocker bushings, that that was "NORMAL" and "Wasn't a problem".
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=390988#390988
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/2_from_oil_filter_987.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/1_from_rocker_cover_549.jpg
===========
="_blank">www.aeroelectric.com
ooks.com" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
et="_blank">www.homebuilthelp.com
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
le, List Admin.
===========
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ollow target=_blank>http://www.aeroelectric.com/
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ofollow target=_blank>http://www.homebuilthelp.com/
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
ist" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
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zeprep251(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:33 am Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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These particles can only get to the oil pump screen,no further.Not to be horrified.
--
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zcrj90(at)yahoo.co.uk
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:15 am Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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Not so much the particles but the holes that they left behind....
From: Gary Aman <zeprep251(at)aol.com>
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, 27 December 2012, 13:32
Subject: Re: JabiruEngine-List: Re: New rocker bushing material - possible issue
These particles can only get to the oil pump screen,no further.Not to be horrified.
--
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:05 am Post subject: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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Because this topic is being posted on Matronics, I can add a photo to
this text (if anybody's interested) to show what the "Fox" had for a
rocker bushing problem back in 2007. I replaced the teflon-coated
original bushing material with store-bought bronze bushings, and
haven't had a lick of problems in that area for the last 5 years and
1100+ hours.
In this picture, the teflon coating has been worn away, and the brass/
bronze material underneath is starting to flake away, leaving the
flakes of brassy-colored material to be found in the rocker cavities.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062
Prince prop 64 x 30, P-tip
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection (sleeved to 36mm)
Status: flying with 1406 hrs... (since 3-27-2006)
On Dec 27, 2012, at 4:26 AM, Clive wrote:
| Quote: | Slightly horrified about this one. I recall the Fox having a
bushing problem but that was years ago.
Pete is quoted here and elsewhere about 'normal' regarding having
debris in the engine. Doesn't sound right maybe he can explain
either; he's been misquoted, or why it's OK and where this 'spare'
material is coming from and why it's OK.
Is there no end to jabiru's incompetence when it comes to this
lovely engine?
Can they not learn a little from previous debacles?
The downward spiral continues, lets hope we don't have any aircraft
that are part of the trend.
Best for 13 guys! Clive
|
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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dacourtn
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 2
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:15 pm Post subject: Re: New rocker bushing material - possible issue |
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Here is a picture of some of my rocker bushings (all 12 look the same) after only 10 hours of operation. These were installed as part of the internal oiler modification by Jabiru US.
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