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Happy First Flight Day

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rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:25 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

Wilbur Wright invented flight controls, with Orville invented aircraft propeller theory, and developed the first real flight test program. Until 1908 all the others were just jumping off the roof with an umbrella. Happy First Flight Day folks. 



Rick Girard

-- 

Zulu Delta

Kolb Mk IIIC

582 Gray head

4.00 C gearbox

3 blade WD

Thanks, Homer GBYM

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.

  - G.K. Chesterton

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The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:09 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

Wilbur Wright invented flight controls, with Orville invented aircraft  propeller theory, and developed the first real flight test program. Until 1908  all the others were just jumping off the roof with an umbrella. Happy First  Flight Day folks.>>

  

  

 <<Until 1908 all the others were just jumping off the roof with an  umbrella.>>

  

  

 Whoa there!

  

 I think that is going a bit far.  The Wrights  may have made the first REPORTED controlled, sustained flight but there were  plenty of others in there with claims.

  

 Richard Pearse in New Zealand made a pretty good  flight in March `03. Some months before the Wrights. He crashed into the top of  a gorse hedge 12 ft high so he was at least off the ground.

  

 There are records that a Frenchman, Felix du  Temple, made a flight powered by a steam flash boiler in 1874.

  

 Trouble is with the definitions.  Define  controlled. Fly in a circle maybe? Define powered. Does being launched by  catapult count?.Define sustained. 10 seconds? 20? 30?

  

 Several people had got the theory of flight pretty  well buttoned down before the Wrights and had defined Lift, drag and produced  airofoils. Phillips in England is reported to have had a wind tunnel into which  he injected steam the see the airflow in 1884.

  

 There is no doubt that the Wrights got it all  together but what they did best was promoting themselves. In true American  fashion they realised the value of publicity. Even in that first telegram the  main phrase is `inform the newspapers`. I am not knocking it. Its no good  building a better mousetrap if no one knows about it.

  

 The Wrights did a great job and their names are in  the history books and that is what everyone accepts.However they didn`t just  conjure all this out of thin air and a bit of credit for the guys whose  shoulders they stood on would not go amiss

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

   [quote][b]

zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:54 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

How-a-bout that sea foam eh?

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

  --

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:21 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

Right on!



coat your VGs with sea foam and your Kolb will levitate vertically.

Santa coats it on his reindeer.

do not archive



On 18, Dec 2010, at 8:49 AM, zeprep251(at)aol.com (zeprep251(at)aol.com) wrote:

[quote]  How-a-bout that sea foam eh?

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

  --

Dennis Thate

Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Happy First Flight Day

From their original notes, it would seem PR was very important.

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Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

Pat, Controlled flight, the ability to maneuver the aircraft in all three axis at the will of the pilot. No one else had demonstrated this, ever, before the Wrights. Proof of this is simply the reaction of the French when Wilbur flew there in 1908. Before this the French press had spent three years speculating on whether the Wrights were "fliers or liars". One flight of two minutes, in which Wilbur flew in a figure 8, was all that it took to convince the French press and the rest of the world that they were doing something substantially different from everyone else. Catapults, there was none when the flights of December 17th 1903 were made. There was a launching rail, nothing more. The catapult was added when they moved their flight testing to Huffman Prairie. Without the winds of Kitty Hawk the launching rail grew to over 250 feet in length. If the wind direction changed it had to be taken up and relaid. The catapult allowed the launching rail to be short enough to be moved in a reasonable time to accommodate the wind.

 



Rick



On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 8:17 AM, robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net (slyck(at)frontiernet.net)> wrote:

[quote] Right on!



coat your VGs with sea foam and your Kolb will levitate vertically.

Santa coats it on his reindeer.

do not archive



 

On 18, Dec 2010, at 8:49 AM, zeprep251(at)aol.com (zeprep251(at)aol.com) wrote:



[quote]  How-a-bout that sea foam eh?

 

   

 

  

   

 

   

 

  --

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:42 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

Now Pat that's a bit like telling a American they  did not invent apple pie. 

 My kolb is hangered at Richard Pearse airport in  South Canterbury . There are believers and non believers here as well .If there  is any interest I can post some material on Richard Pearse and his airoplane. It  was advanced in that it did have elevator and rudder control and roll was  controlled by flaps set into the wing. The engine was a horizontally opposed  twin with each cylinder firing in both directions { Pat may remember a Austin  truck engine that was set up much the same way in the 50s } The engine did work  as I have done some work on a replica and taxied it around .

 I personally believe the concept to be sound but  the aircraft may have been effected by  propeller torque with out enough  rudder authority to keep the aircraft flying straight.

 Weather just coming right here now 33c  yesterday.Pat I will now be over your way in June . Staying a few days in  Newquay. Unfortunatly will not be there for long before we fly out  again.

 I am hoping to get some Kolb time in this week as I  will be away boating for a couple of weeks from Friday 

  

 Regards to all.

 Have a merry Xmas and happy new year and safe  flying to all . 

 Downunder

 MK111c

  

    [quote][b]

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:10 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

The Wrights did a great job and their names are in the history books and that is what everyone accepts.However they didn`t just conjure all this out of thin air and a bit of credit for the guys whose shoulders they stood on would not go amiss

 

Cheers

 

Pat

===================================

Hey Pat take it easy brother, just remember the Wrights were English in origin so you Brits can certainly take credit for that, as in "if it wasn't for us brits you Yankee Bastards wouldn't even have the Wright brothers, and the Kolb". As far as shoulders to stand on you gotta give the most credit to their Mom and Pops and Gulliver.



Bahmbug!

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 8:25 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

<<aircraft may have been effected by   propeller torque  ..>>

  

 Hi,

 I have seen what is supposed to be Pearses plane in  Auckland Museum. Didn`t think much of the prop at all. As I remember it looked  as though he had pinched it from the farm wind pump.

  

 I shall be showing an American friend around the  Normandy beaches about June 6th.  If you are here later in the month we  might arrange a meeting. If you let me have your dates I will let you know if  there are any fly ins in that area in any case.

  

 33 degrees?. Yee Ha. I have driven very tentatively  through the snow this morning to put some props under my hangar roof. More snow  forecast.

  

 This time last year I was heading for a month on  the beach in the Bay of Islands 

 Cheers

   [quote][b]

lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:22 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

Please keep it Kolb related

---- Pat Ladd <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Ever hear of a Gustave Whitehead ?

 

 Hi Jim,

 

 that is completely new to me.The article makes interesting reading.

  I am sure that there were many unsung heroes who were on the verge of 

 flying around that time and either never made it or their records, like 

 Whiteheads were overlooked.  There is certainly such a thing as `an idea 

 whose time has come` and inventions all over the world emerge more or less 

 simultaneously. A strange phenomenon, particularly in a world were instant 

 communication does not exist.

 I didn`t intend to denigrate the work that the Wrights did but the bit about 

 `before them everyone just jumped of buildings with umbrellas` stuck in my 

 craw.

 It is difficult to go against `what everyone knows`.  It is impossible to 

 convince anyone that radar was a British invention. `Everyone knows` the 

 Americans invented it.. Of course we called it `radiolocation` and had it 

 working (just about) before the war. Then we gave the secret to the US as 

 good allies and they developed it and called it `Radar`. It is obvious that 

 `radar` is a much more marketable and easily remembered name and so a myth 

 is born.

 Publicity is all.

 

 Cheers

 

 Pat

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:13 pm Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

Opinions may vary but the observation of first flight is not up for debate.  These pioneers, the wrights and their contemporaries

got us where we are today.  I give them a grateful and hearty salute.

BB



On 19, Dec 2010, at 2:17 PM, <lhaggerty(at)tampabay.rr.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Please keep it Kolb related

 

 

 ---- Pat Ladd <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> wrote: 

> 

> 

> Ever hear of a Gustave Whitehead ?

> 

> Hi Jim,

> 

> that is completely new to me.The article makes interesting reading.

> I am sure that there were many unsung heroes who were on the verge of 

> flying around that time and either never made it or their records, like 

> Whiteheads were overlooked.  There is certainly such a thing as `an idea 

> whose time has come` and inventions all over the world emerge more or less 

> simultaneously. A strange phenomenon, particularly in a world were instant 

> communication does not exist.

> I didn`t intend to denigrate the work that the Wrights did but the bit about 

> `before them everyone just jumped of buildings with umbrellas` stuck in my 

> craw.

> It is difficult to go against `what everyone knows`.  It is impossible to 

> convince anyone that radar was a British invention. `Everyone knows` the 

> Americans invented it.. Of course we called it `radiolocation` and had it 

> working (just about) before the war. Then we gave the secret to the US as 

> good allies and they developed it and called it `Radar`. It is obvious that 

> `radar` is a much more marketable and easily remembered name and so a myth 

> is born.

> Publicity is all.

> 

> Cheers

> 

> Pat

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:36 pm Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

No Pat not true, I knew you guys got there first . Just think the world owes 

TV to the limmys

Downunder

MK111c

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:45 pm Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

Stand behind it at 800 rpm . It sure shifts some  air

    [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:37 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

just remember the Wrights were English in origin>>



Hi Ron,

I thought you all were, well at least European which is the next best thing.



Goodnight Dick!



Cheers mate



have a good Christmas (Starting to snow again. Looks like 2 for Christmas 

instead of the planned 10) Ho Ho Ho



Pat

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Happy First Flight Day

Pat,



My Kolb is not stealthy and therefore is easily seen on RADAR which all the books I've read in America on the subject say was invented by the British. So, those Americans who read reliable sources already know this to be true and don't need convincing.



do not archive

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Last edited by Thom Riddle on Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:32 am; edited 1 time in total

pc.king(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:41 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

EAA recently aired a webinar on flight before  the Wrights. It discussed the early pioneers referenced here as well as the  French.  

  

 www.eaa.org/webinars

  

 Webinars are taped and made available for  replay. Click on the archives button to replay the event. Top off your cup of  coffee. It's 84 minutes long.  

  

 PCKing

  

  

 [quote]   ---

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:28 am Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

No Pat not true, I knew you guys got there first . Just think the world  owes 

TV to the limmys

Downunder

MK111c 



 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

  
	


 can we get back to talking about kolbs...   

  

 1st   i am not sure how this subject line  is KOLB related

 2nd  what ever happened to  DO NOT  ARCHIVE for messages that don't benefit kolb enthusiasts.

  

 if a few of you would like to discuss this please  do so direct and not on the list.

 on the top of every message is the senders email  address,,,, copy & paste into a new message,   PLEASE,,, or am i  the only one getting tired of this subject?

  

 boyd

   [quote][b]

GeoB

Joined: 16 Jun 2009
Posts: 207
Location: Fresno, CA

Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: Happy First Flight Day

 	  Quote: 	
		   Just think the world owes TV to the limmys. Would that be credit or blame?

IMHO, blame, except for Benny Hill of course.

_________________
GeoB

"Members of Congress should be compelled to wear uniforms like NASCAR drivers, so we could identify their corporate sponsors"

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