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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:47 pm Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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I didn't see a specification on a wire size in the simple wiring instructions on the Plane Power web site.
Unfortunately, I only have size #8 wire, but #6 wire was recommended by my panel builder.
Unfortunately my wire run length will be long as I am going from the right side of the firewall to the left side of the panel where the circuit breakers are, back to the right side of the firewall where my AFS shunt is, then back over to my main buss on the left side behind the panel. I should have placed the shunt on the left side of the firewall, probably save me 2.5 feet of length.
JOhn
[quote][b]
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rv10rob(at)gmail.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 4:44 pm Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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If I were in your situation, I'd buy some #6. I wired mine with #8, following the Van's wiring diagram, then realized that the diagram was for a 40A (I think) alternator. I decided to just go with it, since my load is relativey low and wiring run short: down the left side of the engine to the left side of the firewall for the ANL (no CB in the panel).
-Rob
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 3:36 PM, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Quote: | I didn't see a specification on a wire size in the simple wiring instructions on the Plane Power web site.
Unfortunately, I only have size #8 wire, but #6 wire was recommended by my panel builder.
Unfortunately my wire run length will be long as I am going from the right side of the firewall to the left side of the panel where the circuit breakers are, back to the right side of the firewall where my AFS shunt is, then back over to my main buss on the left side behind the panel. I should have placed the shunt on the left side of the firewall, probably save me 2.5 feet of length.
JOhn
Quote: |
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 "Finishing" Kit
Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)
http://kochman.net/N819K
[quote][b]
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1705 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 5:12 pm Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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I'd also look at finding a way to reduce to wire length. Move the alt
circuit breaker or shunt so the flow is a straight line, not making a
double back across the firewall. I know of many certified planes that
bring the alt lead to voltage reg on right side of fire wall, then
direct to shunt and to right side of instrument panel, and the bus
extends full width right to left.
Kelly
On 1/21/2011 5:22 PM, Rob Kochman wrote:
Quote: | If I were in your situation, I'd buy some #6. I wired mine with #8,
following the Van's wiring diagram, then realized that the diagram was
for a 40A (I think) alternator. I decided to just go with it, since
my load is relativey low and wiring run short: down the left side of
the engine to the left side of the firewall for the ANL (no CB in the
panel).
-Rob
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 3:36 PM, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
<mailto:indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>> wrote:
I didn't see a specification on a wire size in the _simple wiring
instructions_ on the Plane Power web site.
Unfortunately, I only have size #8 wire, but #6 wire was
recommended by my panel builder.
Unfortunately my wire run length will be long as I am going from
the right side of the firewall to the left side of the panel where
the circuit breakers are, back to the right side of the firewall
where my AFS shunt is, then back over to my main buss on the left
side behind the panel. I should have placed the shunt on the left
side of the firewall, probably save me 2.5 feet of length.
JOhn
*
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
ttp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
*
--
Rob Kochman
RV-10 "Finishing" Kit
Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)
http://kochman.net/N819K
*
*
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_________________ Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:56 pm Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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I was told to place the shunt between the circuit breaker and the main bus, and not place the shunt right off the alternator as the circuit breaker wouldn't protect the shunt????
I was trying to minimize the holes in the firewall and there is the unused hole on the right side of the firewall near where the manifold pressure line passes through the firewall. Plus, I already drilled the holes for the shunt screws and my wiring passes through on the right side.
I want to keep the circuit breakers together on the panel. I have one circuit breaker on the left by the ignition switch for my electronic G3 ignition. BTW-0 I am flying from the right seat.
[quote] Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 17:49:55 -0700
From: kellym(at)aviating.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: wire size from 60 amp alternator
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
I'd also look at finding a way to reduce to wire length. Move the alt
circuit breaker or shunt so the flow is a straight line, not making a
double back across the firewall. I know of many certified planes that
bring the alt lead to voltage reg on right side of fire wall, then
direct to shunt and to right side of instrument panel, and the bus
extends full width right to left.
Kelly
On 1/21/2011 5:22 PM, Rob Kochman wrote:
> If I were in your situation, I'd buy some #6. I wired mine with #8,
> following the Van's wiring diagram, then realized that the diagram was
> for a 40A (I think) alternator. I decided to just go with it, since
> my load is relativey low and wiring run short: down the left side of
> the engine to the left side of the firewall for the ANL (no CB in the
> panel).
> -Rob
>
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 3:36 PM, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
> <mailto:indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>> wrote:
>
> I didn't see a specification on a wire size in the _simple wiring
> instructions_ on the Plane Power web site.
>
> Unfortunately, I only have size #8 wire, but #6 wire was
> recommended by my panel builder.
>
> Unfortunately my wire run length will be long as I am going from
> the right side of the firewall to the left side of the panel where
> the circuit breakers are, back to the right side of the firewall
> where my AFS shunt is, then back over to my main buss on the left
> side behind the panel. I should have placed the shunt on the left
> side of the firewall, probably save me 2.5 feet of length.
>
> JOhn
>
> *
>
> get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ttp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
> *
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rob Kochman
> RV-10 "Finishing" Kit
> Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)
> http://kochman.net/N819K
> *
>
>
>=============
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 1188 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:11 pm Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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A shunt doesn't need circuit breaker protection. It is fully capable of carrying as much load as the wire. The leads to the ammeter off the shunt are normally fused to protect the meter. Most shunts are just a solid piece of copper cut to have a specific low level resistance that will essentially cause 50 mv to flow to meter when full rated load passes through the shunt.
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 7:52 PM, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com (indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com)> wrote:
Quote: | I was told to place the shunt between the circuit breaker and the main bus, and not place the shunt right off the alternator as the circuit breaker wouldn't protect the shunt????
I was trying to minimize the holes in the firewall and there is the unused hole on the right side of the firewall near where the manifold pressure line passes through the firewall. Plus, I already drilled the holes for the shunt screws and my wiring passes through on the right side.
I want to keep the circuit breakers together on the panel. I have one circuit breaker on the left by the ignition switch for my electronic G3 ignition. BTW-0 I am flying from the right seat.
Quote: | I'd also look at finding a way to reduce to wire length. Move the alt
circuit breaker or shunt so the flow is a straight line, not making a
double back across the firewall. I know of many certified planes that
> bring the alt lead to voltage reg on right side of fire wall, then
|
Quote: | direct to shunt and to right side of instrument panel, and the bus
extends full width right to left.
Kelly
> On 1/21/2011 5:22 PM, Rob Kochman wrote:
|
Quote: | > If I were in your situation, I'd buy some #6. I wired mine with #8,
> following the Van's wiring diagram, then realized that the diagram was
> > for a 40A (I think) alternator. I decided to just go with it, since
|
Quote: | > my load is relativey low and wiring run short: down the left side of
> the engine to the left side of the firewall for the ANL (no CB in the
> > panel).
|
Quote: | > I didn't see a specification on a wire size in the _simple wiring
> instructions_ on the Plane Power web site.
>
> Unfortunately, I only have size #8 wire, but #6 wire was
> > recommended by my panel builder.
|
Quote: | >
> Unfortunately my wire run length will be long as I am going from
> the right side of the firewall to the left side of the panel where
> > the circuit breakers are, back to the right side of the firewall
|
Quote: | > where my AFS shunt is, then back over to my main buss on the left
> side behind the panel. I should have placed the shunt on the left
> > side of the firewall, probably save me 2.5 feet of length.
|
Quote: | > *
>
>
>
>
> --
> Rob Kochman
> RV-10 "Finishing" Kit
> Woodinville, WA (near Seattle)
> http://kochman.net/N819K
> > *
|
Quote: | >=============
get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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#avg_ls_inline_popup{position: absolute;z-index: 9999;padding: 0px 0px;margin-left: 0px;margin-top: 0px;overflow: hidden;word-wrap: break-word;color: black;font-size: 10px;text-align: left;line-height: 130%;} [quote][b]
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_________________ Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 502 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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I know the Garmin stuff requires a 1 amp fuse on both leads from the shunts. I had to install four 1 amp fuses for the shunt between the alt and the one on the battery.
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_________________ 40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours |
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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The #22 wires leaving the shunt goes to the AFS plug on the back of the EFIS. In the schematic, there is no indication of needing a fuse between the shunt and the connector on the back of the EFIS. Then again, the schematic doesn't show the location of the 60amp fuse either.
The Plane Power drawing shows the 60amp fuse, but doesn't show the shunt.
Quote: | Subject: Re: wire size from 60 amp alternator
From: sean(at)braunandco.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 19:37:30 -0800
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com>
I know the Garmin stuff requires a 1 amp fuse on both leads from the shunts. I had to install four 1 amp fuses for the shunt between the alt and the one on the battery.
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327852#327852
>=====================
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Quote: | _===================
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[quote][b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2879
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Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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That's different in that it's just the small wire leads that you're
using to measure the shunt. You don't fuse the fat wire before it
though....only the little wires.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 1/21/2011 9:37 PM, Strasnuts wrote:
Quote: |
I know the Garmin stuff requires a 1 amp fuse on both leads from the shunts. I had to install four 1 amp fuses for the shunt between the alt and the one on the battery.
--------
Cust. #40936
RV-10 SB Fuselage
N801VR reserved
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327852#327852
|
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Strasnuts
Joined: 10 Feb 2009 Posts: 502 Location: Salt Lake City, UT
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:40 am Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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The manual states somewhere the fuses are there to protect the unit. Not the wires.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 21, 2011, at 23:23, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:
Quote: |
That's different in that it's just the small wire leads that you're
using to measure the shunt. You don't fuse the fat wire before it
though....only the little wires.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 1/21/2011 9:37 PM, Strasnuts wrote:
>
>
> I know the Garmin stuff requires a 1 amp fuse on both leads from the shunts. I had to install four 1 amp fuses for the shunt between the alt and the one on the battery.
>
> --------
> Cust. #40936
> RV-10 SB Fuselage
> N801VR reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327852#327852
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
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_________________ 40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours |
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 1705 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:46 am Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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Protect your EFIS yes(or other variety of ammeter), protect the shunt, no.
On 1/22/2011 5:38 AM, Seano wrote:
Quote: |
The manual states somewhere the fuses are there to protect the unit. Not the wires.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 21, 2011, at 23:23, Tim Olson<Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
>
> That's different in that it's just the small wire leads that you're
> using to measure the shunt. You don't fuse the fat wire before it
> though....only the little wires.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
> On 1/21/2011 9:37 PM, Strasnuts wrote:
>>
>>
>> I know the Garmin stuff requires a 1 amp fuse on both leads from the shunts. I had to install four 1 amp fuses for the shunt between the alt and the one on the battery.
>>
>> --------
>> Cust. #40936
>> RV-10 SB Fuselage
>> N801VR reserved
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327852#327852
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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_________________ Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:25 am Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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Tim, this drawing shows that I need to fuse the main wire:
http://www.plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI60%20Installation.pdf
The wires which come off the alternator plug are fused, but the #8 or #6 wire needs the 60 breaker, question is before or after the shunt?
Quote: | Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:23:00 -0600
From: Tim(at)MyRV10.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: wire size from 60 amp alternator
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>
That's different in that it's just the small wire leads that you're
using to measure the shunt. You don't fuse the fat wire before it
though....only the little wires.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 1/21/2011 9:37 PM, Strasnuts wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Strasnuts"<sean(at)braunandco.com>
>
> I know the Garmin stuff requires a 1 amp fuse on both leads from the shunts. I had to install four 1 amp fuses for the shunt between the alt and the one on the battery.
>
> --------
> Cust. #40936
> RV-10 SB Fuselage
> N801VR reserved
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327852#327852
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>======================
|
>================
[quote][b]
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2879
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:24 am Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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That's can be either before or after the shunt, but
in most cases I think the shunt will be firewall forward,
and the fuse/breaker can be either.
This is the alternator B lead that you're talking about...the
main power out lead. You can use a breaker or a fuse,
or whatever you wish. If you size it right, you'll size
that fuse for a load that you never expect to see. Like
if you have a 60A alternator, go a little larger. I
think mine is an 80A ANL fuse. It really doesn't need to
be a resettable device like a breaker. If that sucker
blows, you don't want to be screwing with it in flight.
There are many things you can use. I'm sure there are
better ways to go than what I have, but this works fine
for me.
Here's a picture of the ANL fuse.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/20060115/RV200601010021.jpg
Here's a picture of the fuse holder on the firewall.
I think I could have done a better job with wire routing.
http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/panel/20060115/RV200601010023.jpg
On my plane, there is no "shunt", but I have a hall effect
sensor. So I have a coil of wire as part of the hall effect
sensor that wraps around a loop in the B-Lead. It's inside
my cabin.
The thing is, all the Shunt is doing is dropping a tiny
bit of voltage so that current can be measured. You can
measure current anywhere you want to along that wire.
There is no reason I should have had to have my ANL fuse
inside the cabin. Outside would be better, but at the
time I was trying to protect it from the elements.
You're just trying to protect from a big surge in power
draw, and that can come from either side of the fuse...you
could potentially short it at any point.
So just locate things as necessary. And as Kelly said,
fuse the small wires, because that's there to protect
your EFIS or engine monitor.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 1/22/2011 12:21 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:
Quote: | Tim, this drawing shows that I need to fuse the main wire:
http://www.plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI60%20Installation.pdf
The wires which come off the alternator plug are fused, but the #8 or #6
wire needs the 60 breaker, question is before or after the shunt?
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:23:00 -0600
> From: Tim(at)MyRV10.com
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: wire size from 60 amp alternator
>
>
>
> That's different in that it's just the small wire leads that you're
> using to measure the shunt. You don't fuse the fat wire before it
> though....only the little wires.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
>
>
> On 1/21/2011 9:37 PM, Strasnuts wrote:
> >
> >
> > I know the Garmin stuff requires a 1 amp fuse on both leads from
the shunts. I had to install four 1 amp fuses for the shunt between the
alt and the one on the battery.
> >
> > --------
> > Cust. #40936
> > RV-10 SB Fuselage
> > N801VR reserved
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327852#327852
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>======================
>================
>
>
>
*
*
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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To finish a thought, I think the shunt needs to go between the circuit breaker and the main buse. By placing the breaker in that location is protects the small wires which go to the EFIS measuring the amps.
If I place the breaker on the firewall I wouldn't need to double back to the shunt, but then I wouldn't be able to reset, but if it trips, I probably shouldn't reset it anyway??????
Thoughts?
From: indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: wire size from 60 amp alternator
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:21:15 -0800
.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;} .ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Tim, this drawing shows that I need to fuse the main wire:
http://www.plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI60%20Installation.pdf
The wires which come off the alternator plug are fused, but the #8 or #6 wire needs the 60 breaker, question is before or after the shunt?
Quote: | Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:23:00 -0600
From: Tim(at)MyRV10.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: wire size from 60 amp alternator
--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com>
That's different in that it's just the small wire leads that you're
using to measure the shunt. You don't fuse the fat wire before it
though....only the little wires.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
do not archive
On 1/21/2011 9:37 PM, Strasnuts wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Strasnuts"<sean(at)braunandco.com>
>
> I know the Garmin stuff requires a 1 amp fuse on both leads from the shunts. I had to install four 1 amp fuses for the shunt between the alt and the one on the battery.
>
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> Cust. #40936
> RV-10 SB Fuselage
> N801VR reserved
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> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327852#327852
>
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 Posts: 1188 Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:40 pm Post subject: wire size from 60 amp alternator |
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NO. Your shunt can go anywhere in the main line from alternator to the
bus. Most certified aircraft put the shunt immediately after the B
lead comes through the firewall, then connect to the fuse/circuit
breaker.
The breaker does not provide any protection to the small wires going
to the EFIS. It only turns off the main flow to the bus.
You need 1 amp fuses on the small wires. Probably could use even 1/2
amp fuses, since there normally is only 50 mv and minute amperage on
those lines. Just protection against a short.
On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 12:24 PM, John Gonzalez <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com> wrote:
Quote: | To finish a thought, I think the shunt needs to go between the circuit
breaker and the main buse. By placing the breaker in that location is
protects the small wires which go to the EFIS measuring the amps.
If I place the breaker on the firewall I wouldn't need to double back to the
shunt, but then I wouldn't be able to reset, but if it trips, I probably
shouldn't reset it anyway??????
Thoughts?
________________________________
From: indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: wire size from 60 amp alternator
Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 10:21:15 -0800
Tim, this drawing shows that I need to fuse the main wire:
http://www.plane-power.com/images/AL12_EI60%20Installation.pdf
The wires which come off the alternator plug are fused, but the #8 or #6
wire needs the 60 breaker, question is before or after the shunt?
> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2011 00:23:00 -0600
> From: Tim(at)MyRV10.com
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Re: wire size from 60 amp alternator
>
>
>
> That's different in that it's just the small wire leads that you're
> using to measure the shunt. You don't fuse the fat wire before it
> though....only the little wires.
>
> Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD
> do not archive
> On 1/21/2011 9:37 PM, Strasnuts wrote:
> >
> >
> > I know the Garmin stuff requires a 1 amp fuse on both leads from the
> > shunts. I had to install four 1 amp fuses for the shunt between the alt and
> > the one on the battery.
> >
> > --------
> > Cust. #40936
> > RV-10 SB Fuselage
> > N801VR reserved
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=327852#327852
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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_________________ Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
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