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rmitch1(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:37 pm Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

So, what are the Batteries here?

Bob Mitchell

L-320

[quote]  	  Quote: 	
		     



  If a little guy in a home garage can make this, what are all the big car makers doing in all their giant labs?

  www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/view/56-Electric-Drag-Racing



	
 

   



              

[b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:50 pm Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

At 10:20 PM 1/22/2011, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  So, what are the Batteries here?


	


   He started the video with and Exide product and

   judging from the weight difference for the "new"

   batteries, they were probably lead-acid. The

   last runs were with A123 Systems Li-ion batteries.



   Some of you may recall Bill Dube used to post

   here on the List several years ago. His KillaCycle

   has put in come amazing performance numbers.



   He did experience a "bad day in the cockpit"

   during some street exhibition of the bike

   back in Sept of 2007



http://green.autoblog.com/2007/09/14/killacycle-takes-off-crashes-into-parked-minivan-bill-dube-ok/



  HBC had looked at A123 products as potential

  feedstock for a new aircraft battery but it

  never took off for variety of reasons. There

  IS a specification in work (it may be released

  by now) for qualifying Li-ion batteries for

  aircraft.



  I'm sure you're all aware of the potential energy

  release from a faulted SVLA battery . . . the

  Li-Ions are a whole 'nuther step up. It's sorta

  like figuring out how to safely burn nitroglycerin

  in your engine . . . the BTU to volume ratio

  is really good . . . but . . .



  I have no doubt they are coming . . . but not

  real soon.

   Bob . . .

dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:06 pm Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

Bill Dube (riding the Killacyle) was providing LED nav lights for experimentals at one point.Â  I bought a set from him.Â  He's a great guy.

Dave Saylor

AirCrafters

140 Aviation Way

Watsonville, CA 95076

  831-722-9141 Shop

831-750-0284 Cell

 



On Sat, Jan 22, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Robert Mitchell <rmitch1(at)hughes.net (rmitch1(at)hughes.net)> wrote:

[quote]  So, what are the Batteries here?

Bob Mitchell

L-320

 	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		       



Â  If a little guy in a home garage can make this, what are all the big car makers doing in all their giant labs?

Â Â [/url][url=http://www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/view/56-Electric-Drag-Racing]www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/view/56-Electric-Drag-Racing

  

	
 

   



              





3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

 	  Quote: 	
		  

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
	


3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



	


[b]

harley(at)AgelessWings.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:18 am Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

He switched from lead acid to lithium batteries in 2010...that's       what he used to get his latest world quarter mile speed record.

       

       Kilocycle loaned him the batteries...here's a page from his       website that lists all the features and details of this       Datsun...type of batteries, motor, controller, etc. 

       

       www.plasmaboyracing.com/history/2010.php

       Â 

     I remember seeing an article back in the 60s or 70s in Popular     Mechanics or Mechanix Illustrated that outlined installing a jet     engine starter motor to replace the gas engine in a sport car. I     almost tried it as I only had a five mile drive to work...! 

     

     Harley

     

     On 1/22/2011 10:20 PM, Robert Mitchell wrote:     [quote]       So, what are the Batteries here?

       

       

       Bob Mitchell

       L-320

       

       

        	  Quote: 	
		                                                                    	  Quote: 	
		                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

                                 

                                 

                                   

                                   Â  If a little guy in a home garage can                                   make this, what are all the big car                                   makers doing in all their giant labs?

                                   Â Â www.opb.org/programs/ofg/videos/view/56-Electric-Drag-Racing

                                                                                                                                       

                     

                   

                 	
               

             

           

           

         

       

	
     [b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:18 am Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I remember seeing an article back in the 60s or 70s in Popular Mechanics or Mechanix Illustrated that outlined installing a jet engine starter motor to replace the gas engine in a sport car. I almost tried it as I only had a five mile drive to work...! 	


    I think it was Mother Earth magazine that published

    a number of articles on gas to electric conversions.

    They became popular DIY projects in the 70's and 80's.

    I think I recall somebody in the aviation industry

    complaining that a particular starter-generator, once

    prolific in the used/surplus market was hard to find,

    "all those electric car guys snapped them up".



    No doubt production electric cars of the future will

    have brushless DC motors at each wheel. Drive train

    transmissions will evaporate. Indeed, the electric

    airplane projects are brushless motors too. These

    motors lend themselves to higher voltage operations

    which keeps I(squared)R losses down. Lower currents

    help offset trade off for Li-Ion with very high energy

    densities but higher internal resistances in the cells.



    It's a big hat dance around the simple-ideas in physics

    that drive the quest for a successful recipe . . . where

    success is measured in market acceptance (pure economics).



    The cool thing is that we can sit back and watch somebody

    else's time/talent/resources being expended at the hat dance.

    As with many 'automotive' products that found their way

    onto our airplanes, products that arise from these new

    technologies will have millions of road-miles on them

    before we need to spend out time/talent/resources figuring

    how to best benefit us in the air.



    The micro-controller was field-tested in millions of

    personal computing products and coffee pots before

    an EFIS system became a gleam in somebody's eye.



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

Jim Berry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Off topic electric drag racer

If you liked Bill Dube's electric motorcycle dragster, wait till you see their new electric Bonneville racer. It will take a longer extension cord though.



Jim Berry

RV-10

Terry Watson

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 290
Location: Seattle, WA USA

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:36 am Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

Way back in the 1950’s, my Dad had an electric feed cart that we used on our mink ranch. The motor was the starter-generator out of a 1928 Dodge. I remember that when he decided to buy the semi-custom cart from a company in California, he and Mom drove the station wagon from 100 miles north of Seattle south, stopping at junk yards along the way looking for ’28 Dodge starter-generators. By the time they got to the manufacturer’s facilities in California, they had enough of them to swap for the feed cart.

 

The cart had a couple of truck batteries in it. I think I remember it had a chain drive from the motor to a differential with the drive wheels in the back, with a single wheel in the front steered by a vertical tiller with a handle at the top that fit between my legs when I got tall enough. You stood on a platform at the back that was the forward-reverse and speed control. Lean forward for forward; back to stop or reverse. Leaning to the side turned the front wheel. We typically hauled maybe 200 pounds of mink feed on it. It was a very useful little vehicle around the ranch, but it didn’t do well on rough ground.

 

Terry

Seattle

 

 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Nuckolls, III

Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 7:14 AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Off topic electric drag racer

  	  Quote: 	
		  



I remember seeing an article back in the 60s or 70s in Popular Mechanics or Mechanix Illustrated that outlined installing a jet engine starter motor to replace the gas engine in a sport car. I almost tried it as I only had a five mile drive to work...! 	




   I think it was Mother Earth magazine that published

   a number of articles on gas to electric conversions.

   They became popular DIY projects in the 70's and 80's.

   I think I recall somebody in the aviation industry

   complaining that a particular starter-generator, once

   prolific in the used/surplus market was hard to find,

   "all those electric car guys snapped them up".



   No doubt production electric cars of the future will

   have brushless DC motors at each wheel. Drive train

   transmissions will evaporate. Indeed, the electric

   airplane projects are brushless motors too. These

   motors lend themselves to higher voltage operations

   which keeps I(squared)R losses down. Lower currents

   help offset trade off for Li-Ion with very high energy

   densities but higher internal resistances in the cells.



   It's a big hat dance around the simple-ideas in physics

   that drive the quest for a successful recipe . . . where

   success is measured in market acceptance (pure economics).



   The cool thing is that we can sit back and watch somebody

   else's time/talent/resources being expended at the hat dance.

   As with many 'automotive' products that found their way

   onto our airplanes, products that arise from these new

   technologies will have millions of road-miles on them

   before we need to spend out time/talent/resources figuring

   how to best benefit us in the air.



   The micro-controller was field-tested in millions of

   personal computing products and coffee pots before

   an EFIS system became a gleam in somebody's eye.



  Bob . . .  	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List 	
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  [quote][b]

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:49 pm Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

Snip



   No doubt production electric cars of the future will

   have brushless DC motors at each wheel. Drive train

   transmissions will evaporate. Indeed, the electric

   airplane projects are brushless motors too. These

   motors lend themselves to higher voltage operations

   which keeps I(squared)R losses down. 

 

<![if !supportLists]>·        <![endif]>Years ago I think it was Popular Science had a story on a vehicle with that particular drive.  Theirs was a 6X6.

  

 

Snip

   The cool thing is that we can sit back and watch somebody

   else's time/talent/resources being expended at the hat dance.

   As with many 'automotive' products that found their way

   onto our airplanes, products that arise from these new

   technologies will have millions of road-miles on them

   before we need to spend out time/talent/resources figuring

   how to best benefit us in the air.

 

Bob, I’m a bit surprised you didn’t mention the serious work thousands of amateur radio buffs did on digital controls let alone digital emissions.  I still remember sending full colour photographs around the world through a 1 khz bandwidth.

   Noel 	  Quote: 	
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  [quote][b]

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:43 pm Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Bob, I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention the serious work 

thousands of amateur radio buffs did on digital controls let alone 

digital emissions.  I still remember sending full colour photographs 

around the world through a 1 khz bandwidth.


	


    Yeah, there was a lot of packet work begin done in the late '80s

    and slow-scan tv predates that by 10 years or more. There

    are no doubt thousands of examples of 'leading edge' process

    and technology that laid the groundwork for the future

    of today's product. But we were talking about systems

    and components that provide low risk, useful services in

    the airplane.



    Development costs need to be amortized over great

    numbers for them to become insignificant. Little

    airplanes don't represent much of a market! Our

    demonstrated reservoir of successful recipes

    have come from the volume consumer markets.



    The SVLA battery has been around commercially

    since 1970 but it wasn't until 1990 that they got a real

    toe holed in OBAM aviation . . . and only then after

    the un-interruptible power supply market bloomed.



    When LORAN was still king and a panel mounted GPS was

    prohibitively expensive, I bought a perfectly serviceable

    GPS for airplanes from a Boat US catalog for $200.



    I didn't mean to 'slight' any of the guys who

    did it first. But doing if first doesn't immediately

    and directly translate into useful, cost-effective

    product.

   Bob . . .

rmitch1(at)hughes.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:06 pm Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

And, don't forget all the free hand me down benefits we get from NASA thru taxpayer dollars.

Bob Mitchell

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 23, 2011, at 6:39 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

> 

> Bob, I'm a bit surprised you didn't mention the serious work thousands of amateur radio buffs did on digital controls let alone digital emissions.  I still remember sending full colour photographs around the world through a 1 khz bandwidth.

   Yeah, there was a lot of packet work begin done in the late '80s

   and slow-scan tv predates that by 10 years or more. There

   are no doubt thousands of examples of 'leading edge' process

   and technology that laid the groundwork for the future

   of today's product. But we were talking about systems

   and components that provide low risk, useful services in

   the airplane.

   Development costs need to be amortized over great

   numbers for them to become insignificant. Little

   airplanes don't represent much of a market! Our

   demonstrated reservoir of successful recipes

   have come from the volume consumer markets.

   The SVLA battery has been around commercially

   since 1970 but it wasn't until 1990 that they got a real

   toe holed in OBAM aviation . . . and only then after

   the un-interruptible power supply market bloomed.

   When LORAN was still king and a panel mounted GPS was

   prohibitively expensive, I bought a perfectly serviceable

   GPS for airplanes from a Boat US catalog for $200.

   I didn't mean to 'slight' any of the guys who

   did it first. But doing if first doesn't immediately

   and directly translate into useful, cost-effective

   product.

  Bob . . .

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:07 am Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

Too bad about the LORAN...  It has a few advantages over GPS.  It's cheaper

and it's on the ground where it is somewhat more protected from things man

made and otherwise hurtling through space.  I remember once when a C-band

satellite was knocked into by a meteor.  For a period of time there was a

loss of signal.  It could have been much worse as all geostationary

satellites are in a over the equator. I hope we never get in the situation

where we could benefit by those now lost advantages.  



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:42 am Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

Reminds me of the story about the money NASA spent to build a ball point pen

for space...  The Russians used a pencil.  Now what was not said.  The

pencil leaves dust floating around every time it is used The point can break

off and jam equipment and on at least one occasion the pen was disassembled

and used to actually save a mission.  On the surface it looked foolish but

in the long run it was money well spent.



Noel



--

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

william_slaughter(at)att.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:22 pm Post subject: Off topic electric drag racer

Both US and Russia started out with pencils, and the hazards mentioned are

true. However, Fisher pen developed it on their own nickel, and it ended up

being used by both sides. Search "nasa space pen" at Snopes.com for the

detailed story.



William



--

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1926
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Off topic electric drag racer

 	  Quote: 	
		  The cart had a couple of truck batteries in it. I think I remember it had a chain drive from the motor to a differential with the drive wheels in the back, with a single wheel in the front steered by a vertical tiller with a handle at the top that fit between my legs when I got tall enough. You stood on a platform at the back that was the forward-reverse and speed control. Lean forward for forward; back to stop or reverse. Leaning to the side turned the front wheel. We typically hauled maybe 200 pounds of mink feed on it. It was a very useful little vehicle around the ranch, but it didnâ€™t do well on rough ground. 	


It sounds like a Segway doesn't it?  LOL

Joe

Do not archive

_________________
Joe Gores

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