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Landings

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Nic(at)skyhi.flyer.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:44 am Post subject: Landings



Rich, I totally agree - I have recently started flying my RV8 and previously

spent my time in an S1S in which although the vision is far less, holds and

flares beautifully.

I can only describe the RV8 landings as being without "feel", and basically

disappointing so far.

It is good to hear an honest opinion of your experiences, far too often the

lists are not very forthcoming on the shortfalls of what is otherwise a

great little aircraft.

Rgds, Nic

 	  Quote: 	
		  

I have 125 hours in my RV-8 and my experience is that it is somewhat

difficult to make consistently good landings. Now, to avoid, all the name

calling this is only my experience and I may not be the best pilot on the

net and I'm an old guy (60). I have about 500 hours in Cessna 120,140 and

170's and 300 in a Christen Eagle and before that I was a Navy jet guy. I

make full stall landings all the time because I want to be slower, rather

than faster and avoid the transition to tail down. Again just my opinion.

The RV-8 may have a little bit of blocking the tail at slow speeds and

full 	


 	  Quote: 	
		   flaps, don't know. Try, watching RV's land and it seems that the "8"

doesn't make as smooth a landing as the other tail dragging RV's. Could

be 	


 	  Quote: 	
		   the gear design or CG or what ever, but if you watch a 100 RV landings

that 	


 	  Quote: 	
		   seems to be the case. They are not unsafe landing, just not as smooth. I

have tried less flaps, more power, no power it is just a little harder to

make grease them-on-landings all the time. I think that in the Christen

Eagle it was easier to make consistent good landings and you couldn't see

the runway in it. It frustrates the heck out of me not to be able to make

good landings all the time. Maybe more time or someone else will have the

magic cure. But, if I were you, I'd do what ever kind of landing you are

the most comfortable with......they all work.

Rich Crosley

RV-8 N948RC

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cajole76(at)ispwest.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: Landings

Nic, Maybe the answer to getting that "feel" is vortex generators. There has been some discussion in the past about reduced stall speeds and improved stability, but it would be interesting to find out if they improve the feel in the flare. Anyone have first hand experience to share? Joel Harding On Jan 6, 2006, at 6:43 AM, Nic wrote: Rich, I totally agree - I have recently started flying my RV8 and previously spent my time in an S1S in which although the vision is far less, holds and flares beautifully. I can only describe the RV8 landings as being without "feel", and basically disappointing so far. It is good to hear an honest opinion of your experiences, far too often the lists are not very forthcoming on the shortfalls of what is otherwise a great little aircraft. Rgds, Nic > > I have 125 hours in my RV-8 and my experience is that it is somewhat > difficult to make consistently good landings. Now, to avoid, all > the name > calling this is only my experience and I may not be the best pilot > on the > net and I'm an old guy (60). I have about 500 hours in Cessna > 120,140 and > 170's and 300 in a Christen Eagle and before that I was a Navy jet > guy. I > make full stall landings all the time because I want to be slower, > rather > than faster and avoid the transition to tail down. Again just my > opinion. > The RV-8 may have a little bit of blocking the tail at slow speeds > and full > flaps, don't know. Try, watching RV's land and it seems that the "8" > doesn't make as smooth a landing as the other tail dragging RV's. > Could be > the gear design or CG or what ever, but if you watch a 100 RV > landings that > seems to be the case. They are not unsafe landing, just not as > smooth. I > have tried less flaps, more power, no power it is just a little > harder to > make grease them-on-landings all the time. I think that in the > Christen > Eagle it was easier to make consistent good landings and you > couldn't see > the runway in it. It frustrates the heck out of me not to be able > to make > good landings all the time. Maybe more time or someone else will > have the > magic cure. But, if I were you, I'd do what ever kind of landing > you are > the most comfortable with......they all work. > > Rich Crosley > RV-8 N948RC

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cajole76(at)ispwest.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: Landings

Nic, Take a look at this web site. Go to the last item on the page. There is a picture of a strake, along with some test information. It sounds like it might improve the low speed feel. Joel Harding http://www.romeolima.com/RV8//MikeRobbins.htm On Jan 6, 2006, at 6:43 AM, Nic wrote: Rich, I totally agree - I have recently started flying my RV8 and previously spent my time in an S1S in which although the vision is far less, holds and flares beautifully. I can only describe the RV8 landings as being without "feel", and basically disappointing so far. It is good to hear an honest opinion of your experiences, far too often the lists are not very forthcoming on the shortfalls of what is otherwise a great little aircraft. Rgds, Nic

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low pass

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Houston

Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: Landings

Regarding the RV-8 handling, I guess I have to chime in. Mine's coming up

on 6 years old with almost 800 hours - all mine. This plane is a gift from

Heaven as far as I'm concerned. Van is a saint for selling these things at

half what he could get for them.

Guess I might be jaded or biased, but this is one honest, responsive plane.

By far the best I've flown of it's type (single recip engine sport-acro),

and I've flown a few - maybe 35-40 models.

Landing is very straight forward and honest. Yes, it runs out of elevator

if too slow and fwd cg. Even on short strips, I keep the speed up and bleed

energy only when near three-pt touchdown - gives no problems. Takes

practice to do this with a steep decent over an obstacle. The first 4 years

of my RV's life were spent at an 1800-2000' grass strip. Lately, 95% of my

landings are on 3,500+ foot concrete and asphalt where I use a fairly high

nose attitude wheel landing technique (same as used on the grass actually).

I find the spring steel gear no problem. The other RV's are spongier with

their tubular type gear (where I have 60-70 hrs). But the -8 is not a

problem once you've become accustomed to the very minor difference.

As for low speed handling, it's not a Cub, but darn close - and I used to

own one of those. I can hang in the air with the nose at about 30-deg up,

full flaps and fly all day with full confidence. Wouldn't do it below 800

ft or so, but still very predictable and controllable.

The shudder that you get just before stall is a little bit unnerving or just

annoying. But really, I see it as a last line of defense for someone so

totally out of it they allow an unexpected stall. But uncoordinated, it

will snap. Not violently or erratically (depending on how straight the

plane is), just enough to give a good spin entry or low speed snap roll.

I see someone below saying the -8 landing are without feel and

disappointing. Well, just don't see that. Have no idea what this would be

compared to, but just don't see this at all. The looks take a few minutes

to grow on you compared to a -3 or -4 - the most attrative RV's IMO. But

it's a close second, especially flying.

The plane will sink fast when slow. That's just the price to pay for the

low aspect wing. But it's still very managable. Just keep some energy when

landing, and DO NOT "over-pull" the stick to flare. Might get an

accelerated stall at 4-5' AGL. Not good. Did it once. Fortunately,

nothing broke.

Last, the rudder/brake pedals need modification. Some use the lower pedal

extension. I came up with something much more simple and I believe more

effective. I cut two sections of 1/4" steel rod, drilled the respective

sides of the pedal and lower assy. Inserted the rod and secured with set

screw locking collars and Loctite. Has worked great for the last 400-500

hrs.

Be sure to tighten the gear attach bolts after the first 50-hrs or so.

Feel free to write me directly if you have more questions.

Bryan Jones, CFII, MEI, RV-8 transition training (retired!)

www.LoneStarSquadron.com

Houston, Texas

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Joel Harding <cajole76(at)ispwest.com>

Reply-To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Landings Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 09:34:45 -0700

Nic,

Take a look at this web site. Go to the last item on the page.

There is a picture of a strake, along with some test information. It

sounds like it might improve the low speed feel.

Joel Harding

http://www.romeolima.com/RV8//MikeRobbins.htm

On Jan 6, 2006, at 6:43 AM, Nic wrote:

> Rich, I totally agree - I have recently started flying my RV8 and

> previously

> spent my time in an S1S in which although the vision is far less,

> holds and

> flares beautifully.

>

> I can only describe the RV8 landings as being without "feel", and

> basically

> disappointing so far.

>

> It is good to hear an honest opinion of your experiences, far too

> often the

> lists are not very forthcoming on the shortfalls of what is

> otherwise a

> great little aircraft.

>

> Rgds, Nic

>

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_________________
Bryan -8
Houston

Nic(at)skyhi.flyer.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: Landings

Bryan,  Thanks for your feedback on the RV8 handling. I have had several

emails from RV8'ers that have had the same experience as myself, namely of

disappointing handling in takeoff and particularly landing regimes.



I think the issue is mainly one of "expectations" and I had assumed that the

RV grin was one derived from excellent light handling, rather than just

performance. Speaking to a number of pilots that have come to RV8's from

Pitt's or other similar aircraft, they too have found that the 8 is heavy

and not very responsive in certain regimes. Yes, it feels sporty at high

speeds - but that is to be expected.



Much of the discussion on the RV8 forums is naturally about building rather

than flying and it has been good recently to hear some honest opinions on

the RV8 handling, (even if they are often off-line).



Yes, the aircraft is pretty benign and can be landed in a three hundred

yards, and yes, it can be flown as a stable platform at low speeds with the

flaps down ...... but in my honest opinion is that it lacks fine and

detailed feedback that defines a truly great handling airplane.



The ergonomics of the seating and stick position are not ideal either and I

will be thinking of ways to enhance the current arrangements in my own RV8.

(I have heard that Jon J's seats are an improvement in the RV4).



As suggested I think that it really depends on your previous experience as

to whether the handling has the "feel" or not. Overall I am still generally

happy with my new 8, but will Now probably keep my Pitts S1 to keep in

touch.



Rgds, Nic



 	  Quote: 	
		   I see someone below saying the -8 landing are without feel and

 disappointing.  Well, just don't see that.  Have no idea what this would

be
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   compared to, but just don't see this at all.

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chasm711(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: Landings

Nic



You seem to imply that the "RV grin" is only acquired from performance and 

not handling and that the RV 8 delivers "disappointing" take off and landing 

and landing characteristics.  If that is your experience that is certainly 

valid for you but in no way mirrors the experience of all others.  If you 

are comparing an RV to a Pitts its a bit of an apples and oranges thing.  I 

challenge you to put spades on your ailerons, VGs on your stabilizer and 

bias your CG aft and then comment on the comparison.  You have much more 

experience than many builders and are aware that a short coupled Pitts will 

be lighter and more responsive in pitch and roll than just about anything 

else.   When my RV 8 is full of fuel with just me in it and that heavy angle 

valve engine up front it gets nose heavy when landing (slow) but at the end 

of a cross country leg with low fuel and my wife in the back seat its very 

light in pitch.  The point is that your Pitts is optimized for a fairly 

narrow flight and loading regime and an RV is capable of a much broader 

envelope.  My experience has been that the RV series is delightful and 

responsive to fly in all regimes.  Now tell me again how that Pitts has 

better takeoff characteristics 



Paul Schattauer

RV8   N808 PS



I wheel land on pavement when the CG is forward and 3 point when aft

I always 3 point on grass

The tall pilot option (I am 5'11") and a slightly bent (cut and welded) 

stick solved the cockpit ergonomics for me



 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Nic" <Nic(at)skyhi.flyer.co.uk>

Reply-To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv8-list(at)matronics.com>

CC: <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com>

Subject: Landings

Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2006 12:13:27 -0000






Bryan,  Thanks for your feedback on the RV8 handling. I have had several

emails from RV8'ers that have had the same experience as myself, namely of

disappointing handling in takeoff and particularly landing regimes.



I think the issue is mainly one of "expectations" and I had assumed that 

the

RV grin was one derived from excellent light handling, rather than just

performance. Speaking to a number of pilots that have come to RV8's from

Pitt's or other similar aircraft, they too have found that the 8 is heavy

and not very responsive in certain regimes. Yes, it feels sporty at high

speeds - but that is to be expected.



Much of the discussion on the RV8 forums is naturally about building rather

than flying and it has been good recently to hear some honest opinions on

the RV8 handling, (even if they are often off-line).



Yes, the aircraft is pretty benign and can be landed in a three hundred

yards, and yes, it can be flown as a stable platform at low speeds with the

flaps down ...... but in my honest opinion is that it lacks fine and

detailed feedback that defines a truly great handling airplane.



The ergonomics of the seating and stick position are not ideal either and I

will be thinking of ways to enhance the current arrangements in my own RV8.

(I have heard that Jon J's seats are an improvement in the RV4).



As suggested I think that it really depends on your previous experience as

to whether the handling has the "feel" or not. Overall I am still generally

happy with my new 8, but will Now probably keep my Pitts S1 to keep in

touch.



Rgds, Nic



 > I see someone below saying the -8 landing are without feel and

 > disappointing.  Well, just don't see that.  Have no idea what this would

be

 > compared to, but just don't see this at all.

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rv8ch

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 250
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: Landings

 	  Quote: 	
		   The ergonomics of the seating and stick position are not ideal either and I

 will be thinking of ways to enhance the current arrangements in my own RV8.

 (I have heard that Jon J's seats are an improvement in the RV4).


	


Nik,



If you (or anyone else) is interested in a set of Jon Johanson seats,

I've got a set for sale.



-- 

Mickey Coggins

http://www.rv8.ch/

#82007 finishing

do not archive

- The Matronics RV8-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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_________________
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/

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