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JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

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gsessare(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:06 am Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

Hi Everybody, 

 

I am Gustavo from ARGENTINA and I bought 1 year ago an Europa xs monowhell 99 % complete with jabiru 3300 brand new and airmaster 3 balde cs brand new

pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:25 am Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

Hi Gustavo,  

   

Just one silly thought.  If you bought the aircraft in the States your temperatures readouts would probably be set up in Farenheit units rather than centigrade. Check your units.  

   

Pete  

         

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gustavo Sessarego

 Sent: 10 April 2011 18:03

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI  

  

   

Hi Everybody, 

  

 I am Gustavo from ARGENTINA and I bought 1 year ago an Europa xs monowhell 99 % complete with jabiru 3300 brand new and airmaster 3 balde cs brand new.

  

 now is time to mout take the first test fly and I find out that during taxi engine temperature is 150° celcius at 1400 rpm so I richt the runway for take off run at 190° celcius so I must stop engine for proctection. 

  

 Engine Manual says 150° maximun continues and 175° maximun.

  

 note: outside temperature was only 20° celcius

  

 Any advise.....?

  

 regards from Buenos Aires -Argentina   	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List 	
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No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

 04/10/11  

       [quote][b]

gsessare(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:03 pm Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

thanks Pete, 

 

I have a uMONITOR and it works on Celcius.....!!

 

thanks again

GUS

 

From: pjeffers(at)talktalk.net

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

SubjecPete, t: RE: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:17:43 +0100





Hi Gustavo,

 

Just one silly thought.  If you bought the aircraft in the States your temperatures readouts would probably be set up in Farenheit units rather than centigrade. Check your units.

 

Pete

 





From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gustavo Sessarego

Sent: 10 April 2011 18:03

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

 

Hi Everybody, 

 

I am Gustavo from ARGENTINA and I bought 1 year ago an Europa xs monowhell 99 % complete with jabiru 3300 brand new and airmaster 3 balde cs brand new

europa471

Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 35

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:41 pm Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

Gustavo

       

       Join the Jabiru Engine Matronics Forum and put your question       there. There is plenty of work being done.

       

       Regards

       

       Lance Sandford in OZ

     

     

     On 04/11/2011 10:00 AM, Gustavo Sessarego wrote:     [quote]              thanks Pete, 

        

       I have a uMONITOR and it works on Celcius.....!!

        

       thanks again

       GUS

        

       From: pjeffers(at)talktalk.net (pjeffers(at)talktalk.net)

       To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

       SubjecPete, t: RE: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER       TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

       Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:17:43 +0100

       

                

 Hi Gustavo,          

            

 Just one silly thought.  If you bought the aircraft             in the States your temperatures readouts would probably be             set up in  Farenheit              units rather than centigrade. Check your units.          

            

 Pete          

                          

           

 From:                 owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)               [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On                   Behalf Of Gustavo Sessarego

               Sent: 10 April 2011 18:03

               To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

               Subject: JABIRU 3300               BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI          

         

            

 Hi Everybody, 

              

             I am Gustavo from ARGENTINA and I bought 1 year ago an             Europa xs monowhell 99 % complete with jabiru 3300 brand new             and airmaster 3 balde cs brand new.

              

             now is time to mout take the first test fly and I find out             that during taxi engine temperature is 150° celcius at 1400             rpm so I richt the runway for take off run at 190° celcius             so I must stop engine for proctection. 

              

             Engine Manual says 150° maximun continues and 175° maximun.

              

             note: outside temperature was only 20° celcius

              

             Any advise.....?

              

             regards from Buenos Aires -Argentine           	  Quote: 	
		  



	
       

     [b]

europa471

Joined: 08 Apr 2009
Posts: 35

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:33 pm Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

Gustavo

       

       Join the Jabiru Engine Matronics Forum and put your question       there. There is plenty of work being done.

       

       Regards

       

       Lance Sandford in OZ

     

     

     

     On 04/11/2011 10:00 AM, Gustavo Sessarego wrote:     [quote]              thanks Pete, 

        

       I have a uMONITOR and it works on Celcius.....!!

        

       thanks again

       GUS

        

       From: pjeffers(at)talktalk.net (pjeffers(at)talktalk.net)

       To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

       SubjecPete, t: RE: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER       TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

       Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:17:43 +0100

       

                

 Hi Gustavo,          

            

 Just one silly thought.  If you bought the aircraft             in the States your temperatures readouts would probably be             set up in  Farenheit              units rather than centigrade. Check your units.          

            

 Pete          

                          

           

 From:                 owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)               [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On                   Behalf Of Gustavo Sessarego

               Sent: 10 April 2011 18:03

               To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

               Subject: JABIRU 3300               BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI          

         

            

 Hi Everybody, 

              

             I am Gustavo from ARGENTINA and I bought 1 year ago an             Europa xs monowhell 99 % complete with jabiru 3300 brand new             and airmaster 3 balde cs brand new.

              

             now is time to mout take the first test fly and I find out             that during taxi engine temperature is 150° celcius at 1400             rpm so I richt the runway for take off run at 190° celcius             so I must stop engine for proctection. 

              

             Engine Manual says 150° maximun continues and 175° maximun.

              

             note: outside temperature was only 20° celcius

              

             Any advise.....?

              

             regards from Buenos Aires -Argentina           	  Quote: 	
		  



	
       

     [b]

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:16 am Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

look at the induction system, you need straight flow into the single carb or mixture will vary between the cylinders too much, a smooth curve elbow doesn't work well.

Graham

From: Gustavo Sessarego <gsessare(at)hotmail.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, 11 April, 2011 1:00:39

Subject: RE: Europa-List: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

     thanks Pete, 

 I have a uMONITOR and it works on Celcius.....!!

 thanks again

 GUS

   From: pjeffers(at)talktalk.net

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

SubjecPete, t: RE: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2011 20:17:43 +0100

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Hi Gustavo, 

Just one silly thought.  If you bought the aircraft in the States your temperatures readouts would probably be set up in Farenheit units rather than centigrade. Check your units. 

Pete 

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gustavo Sessarego

Sent: 10 April 2011 18:03

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

Hi Everybody, 

I am Gustavo from ARGENTINA and I bought 1 year ago an Europa xs monowhell 99 % complete with jabiru 3300 brand new and airmaster 3 balde cs brand new.

now is time to mout take the first test fly and I find out that during taxi engine temperature is 150° celcius at 1400 rpm so I richt the runway for take off run at 190° celcius so I must stop engine for proctection. 

Engine Manual says 150° maximun continues and 175° maximun.

note: outside temperature was only 20° celcius

Any advise.....?

regards from Buenos Aires -Argentina 	  Quote: 	
		    http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com 	
0 	  Quote: 	

1 	  Quote: 	

2   

No virus found in this message.

Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

04/10/11

 	  Quote: 	

3   	  Quote: 	

4

 [quote][b]

jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

Gus- 

  

Graham makes a good point.  There is a section in the installation manual that talks about the induction system.  Many Jab users don't even use SCAT tubing because the rough sides create turbulence going into the carb.  I just replaced the SCAT tubing between my airbox and the carb with rubber tubing.  If you want to do that, there is a NAPA part number (I think it is a radiator hose for an older Ford truck) that you can make it from.  In addition, Jab recommends that you use a "cobra head" between the tube and the carb.  Also, are you able to monitor the CHT and EGT in each cylinder?  That can be important since different cylinders will cool at different rates.  If you have only one "hot" cylinder, you can address just that one.  All I am saying is based on what I have picked up during my build.  I was about to start the engine last week and lost the EMS, so until it gets back from Dynon I am dead in the water.  Also, your cooling output needs to be at least 3X your air input area.    

  

Jim 

---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:19 pm Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

thanks Jim, I was a bit cryptic, (again) I spent a year faffing about trying to help some guys with a Jab6 Europa. After telling them more than once to talk to Tony Higgins they did and he fixed it for them. Instead of a nice smooth elbow, a square box worked like a charm. What a difference!

Tony is so clever he never needed this forum! (He used to tune rally cars)

Graham



From: "jimpuglise(at)comcast.net" <jimpuglise(at)comcast.net>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, 11 April, 2011 15:13:07

Subject: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI



p {margin:0;}

Gus- 

  

Graham makes a good point.  There is a section in the installation manual that talks about the induction system.  Many Jab users don't even use SCAT tubing because the rough sides create turbulence going into the carb.  I just replaced the SCAT tubing between my airbox and the carb with rubber tubing.  If you want to do that, there is a NAPA part number (I think it is a radiator hose for an older Ford truck) that you can make it from.  In addition, Jab recommends that you use a "cobra head" between the tube and the carb.  Also, are you able to monitor the CHT and EGT in each cylinder?  That can be important since different cylinders will cool at different rates.  If you have only one "hot" cylinder, you can address just that one.  All I am saying is based on what I have picked up during my build.  I was about to start the engine last week and lost the EMS, so until it gets back from Dynon I  am dead in the water.  Also, your cooling output needs to be at least 3X your air input area.    

  

Jim 

---

AirEupora

Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 186
Location: Dixon, CA

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:05 am Post subject: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

I can not address this problem as I have not run my engine, but I was told by Jim McCormick to build a square box in front of the carburetor.  I'll include a couple of pictures.

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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Just a note on Jabiru 3300 (solid lifter) cooling issues on the ground and  in the air that we've experienced here at Custom Flight Creations.

  

 We just finished about 100 hours of research and development trying to get  Dr. John Kershner's Jabiru with the nice looking Andy Silvester Cowl to  cool.  Propeller is a 64 inch Sensenich Wood Prop.

  

 We drew heavily upon Sonnex, Jabiru techs and our own John Lawton's  success.

  

 We have built a similar looking but two part lunch box over cylinder duct  for ease of accessibility and maintenance.  The duct is part metal and  fiberglass.  The between cylinder barrel and head gaps were extensively  worked to optimize airflow, cooling pressures and heat extraction.

 Extensive work was done to try to direct and augment airflow through  the square heads.  (You know, air doesn't like to go around square corners  or over and around those wires.)

  

 Our results are very promising.  Taxi for 25 minutes before the  hottest cylinder gets to 275F at 80 F outside no wind.  I can live with  that.

  

 Climb is possible to 3000 AGL at 75 KIAS and Max Continuous before we hit  304F  (80F outside temp) then we must retard the throttle and accelerate to  90 IAS to keep the cylinders cool.  At max continuous, it will stay right  at max temp, however when we reapply full power, we are greeted again by  temps going above redline, which is not acceptable.

  

 The cowl exit has been extensively modified as the supplied duct on  the bottom has proven to be a ram air intake so we added a cowl flap to get  a better draw.  The cowl inlets are a bit small for the fin spacing as air  rapidly goes through the fins without picking up the heat.  The spacing of  the cylinders fins and their thickness are partially to blame on the old  engines, but we can't fix that.  The new engines were refined, but alas are  not interchangeable with the older engine.

  

 Oil Temps in the climb and 110 Knot cruise are within limits, thanks to a  well sealed oil cooler, however, the oil temperature went up as speed  increased above 120 KIAS at max continuous due to the poor design of the NACA  and oil cooler placement.  Yes it is true, as the speed goes up the air  stalls at the oil cooler and decreases its efficiency to nil.  More work  needed, but trying to do it without messing up his paint is a pain.

  

 The engine at cruise will die if the carb heat is pulled and then the  throttle retarded so we have a carburation issue still.  It is just too  lean it seems.  Many things may be at play.  We'll investigate one at  a time.

  

 Shock cooling is a pain so the inlet has a dam on the front cylinders to  help out, but it bears watching.  We lazy Rotax people normally don't have  to go to the cooling page of the EIS as part of our descent check, so make it  part of your crosscheck.

  

 To our friend in Argentina:

 Thanks to Johns Lawton's and the Jabiru crowd's research, the mixture per  cylinder has been identified as a problem in some of the stock engines.   The induction system we found is prone to small leaks which leans the cylinders  and causes high EGT and CHT.  We are pulling the carb (again) to take out  the owner installed lean kit.  The smooth bore inlet to the carb is a good  idea, but please ensure the hose clamps and rubber and gasket parts in the  induction are sealing well.  Also, the induction hose must be able to  hold its shape and still be flexible enough to take engine movement.   If that tube collapses your engine dies.  My experience has been if your  cylinders are running hot and the EGT is high, fix the induction, by either  fixing air leaks, jetting the carb differently or moving the mixture clip or  both.  I have not tried rotating the carb off axis.

  

 John Kershner's plane was a 95 knot trigear and now goes 127 knots at max  continuous with a speed kit properly installed and some cooling drag  massaging.  I was surprised that the 100HP 912S goes faster, but then  again, prop speed and size and a gearbox multiplies the torque so they  are about even as far as engines go with fixed pitch props.

  

 The Jabiru USA Rep, Pete K, was emphatic that tuning and cooling  issues were best answered by using a Sensenich 62 inch wood prop.  As the  engine rpm passes 2750 or so, torque drops off and engine horsepower increases  with engine speed but not a lot of extra power is felt.  Propeller  airplanes fly on torque so his assumptions make sense when comparing engine  charts side by side.  Most guys don't consider the torque multiplier of the  2.43 gearbox on a Rotax. The Rotax prop turns slower at 2250 RPM which  looses out in potential thrust on a short 64 inch prop where as the short bladed  Jabiru turns near 2750 RPM at max continuous.  But it burns more gas  turning that fast.   

  

 The Jabiru is a nice looking engine that came on line before all the bugs  were worked out, in my opinion, and it is a bit of time and patience to get it  right.  I have watched many folks on the net and after about 2 years of  tinkering it works OK.  

  

 I just had to look at it myself, as I have avoided the Jabiru in  the past as heavier, thirstier, and harder to cool.  I can make a Rotax  cool with my eyes closed assembling the FWF.  But what is life without  challenges...  I have put a couple thou of my own money into working out  the deficiencies for my owners at the shop and we may do a cooling 102 on the  Jab for those suffering in silence who are still willing to experiment...   If it works, parts will be made available.

  

 Here's hoping that we get all the bugs out.

  

 Best Regards,

 Bud Yerly

 Still recovering from Sun 'n Fun.

 [quote]   ---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:22 am Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com>

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, 15 April, 2011 1:18:37

Subject: Re: Re: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

Hi Bud

I think the uneven mixture is a serious issue with the Jab6. If the inlet to the carb is curved the airspeed in the venturi will not be equal across the whole area so the spray of droplets will be uneven  too. To a certain extent the same thing happens with Rotax so the front cylinders get more fuel than the rear at some throttle settings, drops of fuel don't turn corners the same as air molecules!

Both engines need fuel injection imho. Or a redesign of the induction system to get the fuel/air mixture properly dispersed before any splitting

Graham      

The engine at cruise will die if the carb heat is pulled and then the  throttle retarded so we have a carburation issue still.  It is just too  lean it seems.  Many things may be at play.  We'll investigate one at  a time.

 Shock cooling is a pain so the inlet has a dam on the front cylinders to  help out, but it bears watching.  We lazy Rotax people normally don't have  to go to the cooling page of the EIS as part of our descent check, so make it  part of your crosscheck.

 To our friend in Argentina:

 Thanks to Johns Lawton's and the Jabiru crowd's research, the mixture per  cylinder has been identified as a problem in some of the stock engines.   The induction system we found is prone to small leaks which leans the cylinders  and causes high EGT and CHT.  We are pulling the carb (again) to take out  the owner installed lean kit.  The smooth bore inlet to the carb is a good  idea, but please ensure the hose clamps and rubber and gasket parts in the  induction are sealing well.  Also, the induction hose must be able to  hold its shape and still be flexible enough to take engine movement.   If that tube collapses your engine dies.  My experience has been if your  cylinders are running hot and the EGT is high, fix the induction, by either  fixing air leaks, jetting the carb differently or moving the mixture clip or  both.  I have not tried rotating the carb off axis.

Bud Yerly

 Still recovering from Sun 'n Fun.

 [quote]   ---

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:51 pm Post subject: JABIRU 3300 BRAND NEW OVER TEMPERATURE DURING TAXI

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  You bet.

 Bud

 [quote]   ---

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