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Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?

When on the ground, my Slingshot seems to lag a bit from rudder pedal application to steering response. There is a pre-tension on the springs but I suspect the response could be improved by increasing the pre-tension, which begs the question why springs at all? What is the purpose of the steering springs? I've flown a Sonex with no steering springs at all and it seemed to handle fine on the ground and its tail weight is very very light compared to my Slingshot. I don't plan to eliminate the steering springs on my Slingshot but am considering increasing the pre-tension in hopes of improving the steering response.



Any thoughts, preferably based on experience, will be much appreciated. Keep in mind that the Slingshot tail (while on the ground) is much heavier than most Kolbs. Mine is about 120 lbs with full fuel without the pilot.

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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject: Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?

When on the ground, my Slingshot seems to lag a bit from rudder pedal 

application to steering response. There is a pre-tension on the springs but 

I suspect the response could be improved by increasing the pre-tension, 

which begs the question why springs at all? What is the purpose of the 

steering springs? I've flown a Sonex with no steering springs at all and it 

seemed to handle fine on the ground and its tail weight is very very light 

compared to my Slingshot. I don't plan to eliminate the steering springs on 

my Slingshot but am considering increasing the pre-tension in hopes of 

improving the steering response.



Any thoughts, preferably based on experience, will be much appreciated.



--------

Thom Riddle

Thom

  have you ever been in a tail dragger when the tail wheel fluttered on 

landing?  without some type of dynamic dampening something would break / 

bend.   you should be able to make for a more positive control with stiffer 

springs...   but make sure they are not so stiff that the tail wheel wont 

break free when needed,   maybe more or different grease,,,  or less sand 

and dirt in the bearings, would make it turn more easily.



boyd young

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ces308

Joined: 03 Nov 2008
Posts: 317
Location: houghton lake ,mi

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?

Hi Thom,



I was having a problem turning my M3X and I took the edge off the detent on the tail wheel.I took just enough off so it would stay straight,but would turn at the least amount of pressure applied.Turns great now .



Just a thought...oh yeah...I assumed the springs were to take some of the stress off the rudder.....????



chris ambrose

M3X/Jabiru A-2200

N327CS

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:53 pm Post subject: Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?

Springs included in Kolb kits are very light.  In other than ideal conditions they are not stiff enough to transmit rudder input to the tailwheel horn.



I use Maule compression springs on my MKIII.



You could use stiffer springs and probably work much better.



I believe the tailwheel springs prevent damage to the rudder when taxiing, especially rough conditions.  I can see direct/hard linkage between tailwheel horn and rudder horn causing damage.



john h

mkIII

Burns Junction, Oregon






john h

mkIII

Burns Junction, Oregon

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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?

Thanks for your responses. All useful information. If it looks like I have enough unused portion on my compression springs, I will reduce the chains by one link and see how it does. If not enough unused space i'll buy longer springs of similar rate and pre-tension them a bit more.

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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

zeprep251(at)aol.com
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Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:36 pm Post subject: Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?

Thom,

 Stiffened up the tail springs on a MK3. Helped ground handling in cross winds. May go a little stiffer yet.A no spring connection may possibly get you into trouble control wise if the tail wheel should lock up or freeze  

    G.Aman

  

     

  

    

     

  

     

  

    --

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Bill Long

Joined: 06 Apr 2010
Posts: 19

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:19 pm Post subject: Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?

With my Firefly I found that heavier springs helped but sometimes you just have to add power half way into your landing to get her back on track.

Bill Long

Holt MI (MI38)



From: Thom Riddle <riddletr(at)gmail.com>

To:  kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Sun, June 12, 2011 3:18:42 PM

Subject: Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?



 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Thom Riddle" <riddletr(at)gmail.com (riddletr(at)gmail.com)>



When on the ground, my Slingshot seems to lag a bit from rudder pedal application to steering response. There is a pre-tension on the springs but I suspect the response could be improved by increasing the pre-tension, which begs the question why springs at all? What is the purpose of the steering springs? I've flown a Sonex with no steering springs at all and it seemed to handle fine on the ground and its tail weight is very very light compared to my Slingshot. I don't plan to eliminate the steering springs on my Slingshot but am considering increasing the pre-tension in hopes of improving the steering response.



Any thoughts, preferably based on experience, will be much appreciated.



--------

Thom Riddle

Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Kolb Slingshot SS-021

Jabiru 2200A   

 [quote][b]

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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:43 pm Post subject: Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?

Hit a rock or something, the shock on the tail could be pretty severe if you don't have springs.  It's a taildragger; there's gonna be some lag.

 

 -Dana

 



b young <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com> wrote:[quote] [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "b young" <byoungplumbing(at)gmail.com>When on the ground, my Slingshot seems to lag a bit from rudder pedal application to steering response. There is a pre-tension on the springs but I suspect the response could be improved by increasing the pre-tension, which begs the question why springs at all? What is the purpose of the steering springs? I've flown a Sonex with no steering springs at all and it seemed to handle fine on the ground and its tail weight is very very light compared to my Slingshot. I don't plan to eliminate the steering springs on my Slingshot but am considering increasing the pre-tension in hopes of improving the steering response.Any thoughts, preferably based on experience, will be much appreciated.--------Thom RiddleThom  h  ave you  content  [quote][b]

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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:16 am Post subject: Re: Tail wheel steering SPRINGS or NOT?

Today I removed one of the tailwheel steering compression springs from my Slingshot and measured it. Relaxed it is 2.5" long, 1" OD, and wire dia. is .11".  It will compress a total of 1" down to 1.5" fully compressed. I measured the spring rate with my fish scale and it is about 50 lb./inch. It was not really compressed at all when I removed it, no more than 1/16" or just taking up slack in the chain, really. I re-rigged it so that it is pre-tensioned in mid-compression (1/2") thus each is under about 25 lbs of compression in static mode.



Results from flying pattern with two full stop landings:

DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT! It is virtually direct steering now but still has 1/2" of spring compression left to absorb shocks from rough fields. 



For the slingshot it made all the difference in the world. It might not be necessary for Kolbs with lighter tails but it makes the high speed (take-off and landing speeds) ground control almost as easy as a short leg firestar.

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Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

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