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Van's Tool Kits

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rv6lynch(at)embarqmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

Ben.

 We need to have a conversation. I have every thing  you need. Call me (at)573 893 2291.

  

 Bob Lynch

   [quote][b]

jbeasley(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

Ben,

I went through the tool kit research in February and decided to go with the Avery Kit-106. The kit components are very good quality and you can modify components as needed. I removed the 1001      	22" Hand Rivet & Dimpling Tool, 10765 Dimpling Mallet, and the two technical manuals (already had them) and added the DRDT-2 Dimpling Tool. The Avery folks are very friendly and responsive. You'll need to add 3/32" Cleco's (500 total) and 1/8" Clecos (300 total), and I also recommend getting additional 1/2" and 1" side grip clecos as well.

Jonathan Beasley

#41236 – Tail Cone (Wings coming in July)

From:  Ben Boatright <benboatright(at)gmail.com (benboatright(at)gmail.com)>

Reply-To:  <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>

Date:  Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:46:55 -0400

To:  <rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)>

Subject:  Van's Tool Kits



All,



I'm looking to purchase an RV-10 empennage kit within the next month or so. In the meantime, I'm trying to get my workshop set up. I've looked at many of the different tool kits on the market (Aircraft Spruce, Avery's, etc.). There does seem to be some variation with regards to the kit contents and I'm just wondering which kit might be the "better" kit.



One advantage I do have is that I'm not too far from Aircraft Spruce East, so I could pickup a kit there (though, I would have to pay sales tax). 



I would welcome any feedback that anyone might provide. 



Thanks,

Ben



PS: I'm also open to purchasing used tools if anyone has any available or suggestions for where I might look.

 	  Quote: 	
		  



www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

com

ronics.com/contribution



	
    [quote][b]

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:43 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

It's an exercise in futility..... All the major tool vendors have good kits

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:20 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

Ben;

 Time is money! If you are willing to take time building your tool kit it  can be done for far less than any kit out there.

 To start- my pneumatic drill (Sioux) Brown Tools

 2x/3x recoilless riveter- ebay

 Pneumatic squeezer- The Yard Store

  

 All other tools was a combo of Brown and Yard Store. Brown gave me a  discount for spending so much with them.

  

 I built my arsenal for less than $1000. Every tool worked without an issue  for the complete build. Chose ebay carefully and youâ€™ll get great tools for a  great price.

  

 If you need new, find a vendor, call them and ask what you need for a  RV-10. 

  

 Last comment- get a tungsten bar or steel, I never used any of the bucking  bars, scrap steel bars worked great for me.

 Pascal

    

  From: Ben Boatright (benboatright(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 5:46 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Van's Tool Kits

  



 All,



I'm  looking to purchase an RV-10 empennage kit within the next month or so. In the  meantime, I'm trying to get my workshop set up. I've looked at many of the  different tool kits on the market (Aircraft Spruce, Avery's, etc.). There does  seem to be some variation with regards to the kit contents and I'm just  wondering which kit might be the "better" kit.



One advantage I do have is  that I'm not too far from Aircraft Spruce East, so I could pickup a kit there  (though, I would have to pay sales tax). 



I would welcome any feedback  that anyone might provide. 



Thanks,

Ben



PS: I'm also open to  purchasing used tools if anyone has any available or suggestions for where I  might look.

[quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

[b]

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:28 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

Bob has summarized the high points. Another good kit is 

fromhttp://www.planetools.com/Tool%20Kit.htm

With the majority of the riveting behind me, I would prefer to have both 

a pneumatic squeezer and a good hand squeezer that can share dies and 

yokes. There are places that the ability to slowly squeeze by hand is 

preferable to the rapid squeezing of the pnuematic, and the physical 

shape of the pneumatic makes access difficult.

Also consider having both a 3/8s air drill and a 1/4" air drill. The 

smaller and lighter drill is nice for the more numerous rivet holes, 

while you need the capacity of the 3/8" for drilling things like engine 

mount holes in fire wall. For the 1/4" I have been very happy with 

http://www.averytools.com/prodinfo.asp?number=7300R Chicago Pneumatic, 

which has excellent trigger control, and is very light weight for those 

days when you are match drilling a big skin with hundreds of holes.

Most of the good vendors will work with you to add/delete from their 

kits to account for what you already have, what extras you want. Avery, 

Cleaveland and Isham(Planetools) are top notch in service, etc. You will 

find that you will add tools over time. There are some drill bits that 

you only get 1, which you need throughout the project and 1 won't stay 

sharp enough. (#19 and #12 for example).  There will be certain drill 

sizes that are only used a couple of times in the project, that a 

complete numbered drill set from Harbor Freight is adequate to deal with.

If you want to minimize deburring and have nicer rivet holes,  #41 and 

#30 chucking reamers will do much nicer job than drill bits. (contrary 

to the plans, #41 is a better fit for 3/32" rivets than #40).

Figure you will wind up spending at least 30% more than what the kit 

costs, and if you are a tool junkie it could go to double the kit cost..

Have fun.

On 6/15/2011 6:40 AM, Bob Leffler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   It's an exercise in futility.....  All the major tool vendors have 

 good kits.

 I've got tools from several of the vendors based upon getting to use 

 them in a builder's workshop.

 As to which are best, it's going to be a personal opinion.

 For example:

 Drdt2 vs cframe

 Pnuematic vs manual squeezed

 Then there all all the other tools that aren't in the kits that make 

 your life easier in the build.

 It just depends on how frugal you are or are do have to have the best 

 tools available.

 ACS just resells Avery tools.  You'll be happy with either the Avery 

 or cleaveland kits.   With osh around the corner, there may be show 

 specials from the vendors.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Jun 15, 2011, at 8:46 AM, Ben Boatright <benboatright(at)gmail.com 

 <mailto:benboatright(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

> All,

>

> I'm looking to purchase an RV-10 empennage kit within the next month 

> or so. In the meantime, I'm trying to get my workshop set up. I've 

> looked at many of the different tool kits on the market (Aircraft 

> Spruce, Avery's, etc.). There does seem to be some variation with 

> regards to the kit contents and I'm just wondering which kit might be 

> the "better" kit.

>

> One advantage I do have is that I'm not too far from Aircraft Spruce 

> East, so I could pickup a kit there (though, I would have to pay 

> sales tax).

>

> I would welcome any feedback that anyone might provide.

>

> Thanks,

> Ben

>

> PS: I'm also open to purchasing used tools if anyone has any 

> available or suggestions for where I might look.

> *

>

> ===================================

> ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

> ===================================

> ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

> ===================================

> http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

> ===================================

>

> *

 *

 *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

Two more good sources, Brown and Yard store. I wouldn't buy tools off 

Ebay unless you really know what you are getting and who you are dealing 

with. Warranty is important for the more expensive items. Refurbished is 

fine for the expensive items, from reputable source. I had one tool 

break, called Bob Avery...said he hadn't seen one break before, but he 

would put a new one in the mail, and in a few days I had the replacement.

I would say once you have a tungsten bucking bar, you won't use any 

others except where the tungsten won't fit or give correct angle.

Clecos....most are generic and okay, but for a few cents more, high 

quality clecos are worth it. IIRC the ones I got from Avery were better 

than most of the generic I have. Grip better, smoother action.

On 6/15/2011 7:15 AM, Pascal wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ben;

 Time is money! If you are willing to take time building your tool kit 

 it can be done for far less than any kit out there.

 To start- my pneumatic drill (Sioux) Brown Tools

 2x/3x recoilless riveter- ebay

 Pneumatic squeezer- The Yard Store

 All other tools was a combo of Brown and Yard Store. Brown gave me a 

 discount for spending so much with them.

 I built my arsenal for less than $1000. Every tool worked without an 

 issue for the complete build. Chose ebay carefully and youâ€™ll get 

 great tools for a great price.

 If you need new, find a vendor, call them and ask what you need for a 

 RV-10.

 Last comment- get a tungsten bar or steel, I never used any of the 

 bucking bars, scrap steel bars worked great for me.

 Pascal

 *From:* Ben Boatright <mailto:benboatright(at)gmail.com>

 *Sent:* Wednesday, June 15, 2011 5:46 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

 *Subject:* Van's Tool Kits

 All,



 I'm looking to purchase an RV-10 empennage kit within the next month 

 or so. In the meantime, I'm trying to get my workshop set up. I've 

 looked at many of the different tool kits on the market (Aircraft 

 Spruce, Avery's, etc.). There does seem to be some variation with 

 regards to the kit contents and I'm just wondering which kit might be 

 the "better" kit.



 One advantage I do have is that I'm not too far from Aircraft Spruce 

 East, so I could pickup a kit there (though, I would have to pay sales 

 tax).



 I would welcome any feedback that anyone might provide.



 Thanks,

 Ben



 PS: I'm also open to purchasing used tools if anyone has any available 

 or suggestions for where I might look.

 *



 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

 href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c

 *

 *

 *

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:13 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

I agree with everything Kelly said, particularly about buying used tools

from ebay.  I bought a used Chicago Pneumatic squeezer for $300, but by the

time I paid to have it overhauled so it would work properly I could have

bought a new one.



I also agree completely about the tungsten bucking bar.  It just makes

EVERYTHING easier.  If I lost mine, I'd pay another $110 and would not buck

a single rivet until I had it replaced.



Jack Phillips

#40610 Wings (ailerons)

Raleigh, NC



--

dlm34077(at)q.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:14 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

I suggest picking one and then adding as you need; most will easily get you 

through the tail kit. But to make your job easier, you will collect and even 

make some special tools over the entire build. Having built two aircraft, a 

Glastar and RV10, my tool boxes contain hand squeezes, C squeeze, A squeeze, 

rivet guns, drill, drill press, hydraulic press, etc. just know that over 

the life of the project you will either spend your time or your money. many 

jobs that can be done with simple tools take an inordinate amount of time 

compared to the right tool which works instantly with good results.



 You will even have duplicate tools of selected varieties carried in the 

baggage area when you fly, Since your aircraft may need fixing, an FBO may 

or may not elect to maintain it, since they have no continued airworthiness 

information for it.

---

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

For the identical dimensional size, the mass is significantly greater, leading to reflected energy back into the rivet.  The rivet complies much faster in those hard to reach areas.  Repetitive shock impacts can lead to rivet cracking - from "work hardening".

 

When you can't get a squeeze into an area, a finger tungsten bar becomes magic.

 

John

 

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Boatright

Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 8:28 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Van's Tool Kits



 

Thanks to everyone for the info so far. It has been wonderful. I am curious (and keep in mind, I've never riveted before) about the tungsten bucking bar. What makes it so special?



Ben

J. Ben Boatright

-----

benboatright(at)gmail.com (benboatright(at)gmail.com)

-----

Member, AOPA and EAA



On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)>



I agree with everything Kelly said, particularly about buying used tools

from ebay.  I bought a used Chicago Pneumatic squeezer for $300, but by the

time I paid to have it overhauled so it would work properly I could have

bought a new one.



I also agree completely about the tungsten bucking bar.  It just makes

EVERYTHING easier.  If I lost mine, I'd pay another $110 and would not buck

a single rivet until I had it replaced.



Jack Phillips

#40610 Wings (ailerons)

Raleigh, NC



--

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:17 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

weight!

 I donâ€™t own one, but the weight of steel gets hard on the arms after a  while, with Tungsten you donâ€™t need to exert much strength to hold the bar and  hence makes for easier riveting.

    

  From: Ben Boatright (benboatright(at)gmail.com) 

 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 8:28 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: Re: Van's Tool Kits

  



 Thanks  to everyone for the info so far. It has been wonderful. I am curious (and keep  in mind, I've never riveted before) about the tungsten bucking bar. What makes  it so special?



Ben

J. Ben Boatright

-----

benboatright(at)gmail.com (benboatright(at)gmail.com)

-----

Member, AOPA and EAA

 



 On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)>  wrote:

 [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)>



I    agree with everything Kelly said, particularly about buying used tools

from    ebay.  I bought a used Chicago Pneumatic squeezer for $300, but by    the

time I paid to have it overhauled so it would work properly I could    have

bought a new one.



I also agree completely about the tungsten    bucking bar.  It just makes

EVERYTHING easier.  If I lost mine,    I'd pay another $110 and would not buck

a single rivet until I had it    replaced.



Jack Phillips

#40610 Wings (ailerons)

Raleigh,    NC



--

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:26 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

Density.... specific gravity (?).  Whatever, Tungsten is much heavier 

per cubic inch than steel.  A small bar is as effective as a larger one 

so it fits in small spaces, bucks easier etc.



Having said that, I didn't get one until 1/2 thru my project.  It's 

great.  However, in easy to access areas, a lighter but bigger steel bar 

can be nice.  Less hand strain, easier to hold, etc.



The real 'danger' with any bar but especially the tungsten is when you 

drop it and it hits the skin.  Nasty.  That's when a more easily gripped 

bar can be nice.



Hope you have access to someone who can show you the basics of 

riveting... not brain science but lot's of little tricks and just helps 

to get some dual time.



Bill

On 6/15/2011 11:28 AM, Ben Boatright wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks to everyone for the info so far. It has been wonderful. I am 

 curious (and keep in mind, I've never riveted before) about the 

 tungsten bucking bar. What makes it so special?



 Ben



 J. Ben Boatright

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:32 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

It is more dense, which makes riveting easier.  Most are also smaller in size.  With the exception of a handful of rivets, I used my tungsten bar for everything.  It's more expensive, but well worth it.

You are starting to see the rat hole tool buying can become......

Next will be:

Adjustable die holder and quick disconnects for you pneumatic squeezed

Quick bit changer replacing the chuck on your drill

Drdt2

Light weight air hoses

Pneumatic cleco gun

Digital torque wrench

The list goes on.......

It's an ailment that affects many an rv'er.



Sent from my iPhone



On Jun 15, 2011, at 11:28 AM, Ben Boatright <benboatright(at)gmail.com (benboatright(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



[quote]Thanks to everyone for the info so far. It has been wonderful. I am curious (and keep in mind, I've never riveted before) about the tungsten bucking bar. What makes it so special?



Ben

J. Ben Boatright

  -----

[url=mailto:benboatright(at)gmail.com]benboatright(at)gmail.com (benboatright(at)gmail.com)[/url]

-----

Member, AOPA and EAA

 



On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Jack Phillips <[url=mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net]pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)[/url]> wrote:

[quote]  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <[url=mailto:pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net]pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)[/url]>

 

 I agree with everything Kelly said, particularly about buying used tools

 from ebay.  I bought a used Chicago Pneumatic squeezer for $300, but by the

 time I paid to have it overhauled so it would work properly I could have

 bought a new one.

 

 I also agree completely about the tungsten bucking bar.  It just makes

 EVERYTHING easier.  If I lost mine, I'd pay another $110 and would not buck

 a single rivet until I had it replaced.

 

 Jack Phillips

 #40610 Wings (ailerons)

 Raleigh, NC

 

 --

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:35 am Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

Density and hardness.  Tungsten’s density is 19.25 g/cm3  (Lead is 11.34 gm/cm3, and steel is 7.86 gm/cm3).  More mass means greater ability to upset the rivet head with fewer blows from the rivet gun.  With a 4X gun and my tungsten bar on a 3/32” rivet, I find it takes about 3 “taps” to fully set the rivet.  

   

Jack Phillips  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Boatright

 Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 11:28 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Van's Tool Kits  

  

   

Thanks to everyone for the info so far. It has been wonderful. I am curious (and keep in mind, I've never riveted before) about the tungsten bucking bar. What makes it so special?

 

 Ben

  J. Ben Boatright

 -----

 benboatright(at)gmail.com (benboatright(at)gmail.com)

 -----

 Member, AOPA and EAA  



 

     

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:06 AM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:  

--> RV10-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net (pietflyr(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 I agree with everything Kelly said, particularly about buying used tools

 from ebay.  I bought a used Chicago Pneumatic squeezer for $300, but by the

 time I paid to have it overhauled so it would work properly I could have

 bought a new one.

 

 I also agree completely about the tungsten bucking bar.  It just makes

 EVERYTHING easier.  If I lost mine, I'd pay another $110 and would not buck

 a single rivet until I had it replaced.

 

 Jack Phillips

 #40610 Wings (ailerons)

 Raleigh, NC

 

 --

rv10(at)colohan.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

I'm still working on my tail kit.

I bought a bunch of tools used off of vansairforce.com -- this was remarkably useful for getting random pieces of metal, unusual tools, and bucking bars dirt cheap.  Many of the tools I had no idea what to use for until I hit a problem and noticed "hey, I have something in my box which works great for this!" 



My three favourite "non-standard" tools:

- Cleveland Main Squeeze.  Vastly superior to any other hand squeezer I've used -- it requires much less strength to set rivets, and I'm a wimp.  This also reduces the number of errors you'll have due to manhandling rivets.  (Personally, I tried both this and a pneumatic squeezer, and chose to spend my limited budget on this tool first.  If you have the money, buy both.)

 - Tungsten bucking bar.  See what everyone else said.

- An MDF box to put the compressor in.  That darn thing is _loud_.  Building a box to put it in was a fun project, and also made working in my shop much more pleasant.

 



The tool which confuses me most:  a "dimpling hammer".  I've never figured out how this is any better than a standard $2 rubber mallet.  So that's what I use.

 Chris

  [quote][b]

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: Van's Tool Kits

Time to revisit the compressor issue. Absolutely avoid an "oil-less" compressor. If you are building an RV-10 you can afford an oil bath compressor, that uses a separate belt driven motor. Get at least a 25 gal-30 gal tank. There is a good Husky model at Home Despot for under $400, or equivalent Kobalt model at Lowes. They are at least 10-15 db quieter than the oil-less variety.

 If you still need quieter, you can enclose the compressor intake and exhaust, where most of the noise is located, or the whole motor/compressor combination, but plan for some cooling air as that compressor will get hot.

 

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 3:10 PM, Chris Colohan <rv10(at)colohan.com (rv10(at)colohan.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    - An MDF box to put the compressor in.  That darn thing is _loud_.  Building a box to put it in was a fun project, and also made working in my shop much more pleasant.

 



 

 Chris



 



	




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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

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