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larry(at)macsmachine.com
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 Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:56 am Post subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor |
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Neat observation! I may have to unwrap the exhaust pipes to see what numbers come from that. My coolant temps are never much over 197.
Probably because heat from the raw pipes is contained by the wrap, but I get 1375 to 1425 EGTs. The CHTs/oil temps are always near 210/220
on 85-degree days. On 100-degree days, I’d expect to see coolant temps 205 plus or minus 4 degrees. An oil temp reading from the rear face of the oil pan at 185 degrees would cause me to suspect the temp is reading the air around the pan rather than the oil. The oil temp should be within 10 degrees of the CHT. I fly 178/2.78 jets that are as rich as my engine will run well on. The heat muff did reduce the water/head temps as you say, but apparently benefits of wrapping the pipes is subject to how much airflow continues thru from the front of the cowl.
I’d dislike seeing more than 1450 EGT in a climb on a hot day and have set-point to alert at that temp. Jets seem to be the only thing to affect EGTs.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Walker
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:52 AM
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor
HI guys. I have two things to analyze. I have been flying in 100degrees plus and my block/coolant temp goes up to 208 degrees. (My oil temp NEVER goes over 185 because I have a heat muff over my muffler for cabin heat). Now, I followed a suggestion in this recent discussion...wrapped my pipes with heat wrap...and my EGT temp went up 120 degrees from 1330 in cruise to 1450...but the head/watertemp only went down about 4 or 5 degrees. The EGT goes up even further in a hard climb with the wrap...1500.
1. Is the oil temp being that low a good indication that the rise in head/water temp is not a problem at 1450?
2. Would you take off the wrap to get back to 1330 EGT and fly with the water at 208? Don Walker HDS Stratus, 450 hrs
Incidentally, I experimented with airflow measurements over the radiator back on the belly. Laminar airflow from belly surface to about six inches down is very low. Airflow under the belly starts flowing better over 6" below the belly. this indicated the need for a scoop that extends beyond 6" below the belly in front of the radiator. I added a scoop and got improved cooling.
From: Gary Krysztopik <gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com>
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sun, July 10, 2011 9:38:38 PM
Subject: Re: Coolant temperature sensor
--> Stratus-List message posted by: Gary Krysztopik <gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com (gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com)>
I cut up some 1/8" NPT "T" fittings and welded them into an aluminum tube that acted as a hose coupler. I made one for the rad inlet and one for the outlet to measure temp drop. I used the same gauge and put a switch href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List">http://www.matrohttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== [/b]
[quote][b]
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d3dw(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:17 am Post subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor |
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Larry, Are you referring to the stock Stratus CHT plugged into the back of the right cylinder head? Tht for me is what is running at 208 and it is the only indication of CHT/water that I have. It is the one Rhiner said to redline at 230 degrees. I don't have a direct water temp indicator.
As for oil temp, I am using the stock Stratus setup. Unlike most, I have an adjustable door directly in front of the oil pan as well as the muff for cooling the oil. My oil ran considerably higher before I added these.
My EGT is set at 1450, too, but I don't know how to interpret this with the wrap increasing the heat by 120 while the other temps are virtually unchanged. I switched to smaller jets for summer due to plugs looking a little too sooted up for my taste. Won't that rich mixture foul you valves too?
From: Larry McFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, July 11, 2011 12:53:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor
Neat observation! I may have to unwrap the exhaust pipes to see what numbers come from that. My coolant temps are never much over 197.
Probably because heat from the raw pipes is contained by the wrap, but I get 1375 to 1425 EGTs. The CHTs/oil temps are always near 210/220
on 85-degree days.� On 100-degree days, I’d expect to see coolant temps 205 plus or minus 4 degrees. An oil temp reading from the rear face of the oil pan at 185 degrees would cause me to suspect the temp is reading the air around the pan rather than the oil. The oil temp should be within 10 degrees of the CHT. I fly 178/2.78 jets that are as rich as my engine will run well on. The heat muff did reduce the water/head temps as you say, but apparently benefits of wrapping the pipes is subject to how much airflow continues thru from the front of the cowl.
I’d dislike seeing more than 1450 EGT in a climb on a hot day and have set-point to alert at that temp. Jets seem to be the only thing to affect EGTs.
�
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Walker
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:52 AM
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Stratus-List: Coolant temperature sensor
HI guys. I have two things to analyze. I have been flying in 100degrees plus and my block/coolant temp goes up to 208 degrees. (My oil temp NEVER goes over 185 because I have a heat muff over my muffler for cabin heat). Now, I followed a suggestion in this recent discussion..wrapped my pipes with heat wrap...and my EGT temp went up 120 degrees from 1330 in cruise to 1450...but the head/watertemp only went down about 4 or 5 degrees. The EGT goes up even further in a hard climb with the wrap...1500.
1. Is the oil temp being that low a good indication that the rise in head/water temp is not a problem at 1450?
2. Would you take off the wrap to get back to 1330 EGT and fly with the water at 208? Don Walker HDS Stratus, 450 hrs
Incidentally, I experimented with airflow measurements over the radiator back on the belly. Laminar airflow from belly surface to about six inches down is very low. Airflow under the belly starts flowing better over 6" below the belly. this indicated the need for a scoop that extends beyond 6" below the belly in front of the radiator. I added a scoop and got improved cooling.
From: Gary Krysztopik <gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com>
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sun, July 10, 2011 9:38:38 PM
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Coolant temperature sensor
--> Stratus-List message posted by: Gary Krysztopik <gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com (gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com)>
I cut up some 1/8" NPT "T" fittings and welded them into an aluminum tube that acted as a hose coupler. I made one for the rad inlet and one for the outlet to measure temp drop. I used the same gauge and put a switch href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List">http://www.matrohttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ===========
[quote][b][b]
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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor |
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The stock CHT sensor on the engine, rear pilot’s side, yes. The sensor is giving you CHT, but coolant temps need to be taken a short distance from the engine. Sooting up the plugs is usually because of a rich idle mixture. On takeoff and cruise, the carbon trace disappear and reappear as taxi is reduced to idle. It’s logical that EGTs are going to be higher with heat kept within the pipes, though I would not have guessed such a difference.
Wrapping pipes to get a 4 to 5 degree better coolant temp with 120-degree higher EGT readings doesn’t seem an equitable argument for wrapping does it!
I’m going to unwrap my pipes and check flying temps, hopefully at < or =l to 85-degree ambient. It’s possible I could then go to smaller jet sizes as well. I’ll let you know when it’s done.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
rom: owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Walker
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 1:15 PM
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor
Larry, Are you referring to the stock Stratus CHT plugged into the back of the right cylinder head? Tht for me is what is running at 208 and it is the only indication of CHT/water that I have. It is the one Rhiner said to redline at 230 degrees. I don't have a direct water temp indicator.
As for oil temp, I am using the stock Stratus setup. Unlike most, I have an adjustable door directly in front of the oil pan as well as the muff for cooling the oil. My oil ran considerably higher before I added these.
My EGT is set at 1450, too, but I don't know how to interpret this with the wrap increasing the heat by 120 while the other temps are virtually unchanged. I switched to smaller jets for summer due to plugs looking a little too sooted up for my taste. Won't that rich mixture foul you valves too?
From: Larry McFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, July 11, 2011 12:53:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor
Neat observation! I may have to unwrap the exhaust pipes to see what numbers come from that. My coolant temps are never much over 197.
Probably because heat from the raw pipes is contained by the wrap, but I get 1375 to 1425 EGTs. The CHTs/oil temps are always near 210/220
on 85-degree days. On 100-degree days, I’d expect to see coolant temps 205 plus or minus 4 degrees. An oil temp reading from the rear face of the oil pan at 185 degrees would cause me to suspect the temp is reading the air around the pan rather than the oil. The oil temp should be within 10 degrees of the CHT. I fly 178/2.78 jets that are as rich as my engine will run well on. The heat muff did reduce the water/head temps as you say, but apparently benefits of wrapping the pipes is subject to how much airflow continues thru from the front of the cowl.
I’d dislike seeing more than 1450 EGT in a climb on a hot day and have set-point to alert at that temp. Jets seem to be the only thing to affect EGTs.
Larry McFarland 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
From: owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Walker
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:52 AM
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor
HI guys. I have two things to analyze. I have been flying in 100degrees plus and my block/coolant temp goes up to 208 degrees. (My oil temp NEVER goes over 185 because I have a heat muff over my muffler for cabin heat). Now, I followed a suggestion in this recent discussion...wrapped my pipes with heat wrap...and my EGT temp went up 120 degrees from 1330 in cruise to 1450...but the head/watertemp only went down about 4 or 5 degrees. The EGT goes up even further in a hard climb with the wrap...1500.
1. Is the oil temp being that low a good indication that the rise in head/water temp is not a problem at 1450?
2. Would you take off the wrap to get back to 1330 EGT and fly with the water at 208? Don Walker HDS Stratus, 450 hrs
Incidentally, I experimented with airflow measurements over the radiator back on the belly. Laminar airflow from belly surface to about six inches down is very low. Airflow under the belly starts flowing better over 6" below the belly. this indicated the need for a scoop that extends beyond 6" below the belly in front of the radiator. I added a scoop and got improved cooling.
From: Gary Krysztopik <gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com>
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sun, July 10, 2011 9:38:38 PM
Subject: Re: Coolant temperature sensor
--> Stratus-List message posted by: Gary Krysztopik <gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com (gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com)>
I cut up some 1/8" NPT "T" fittings and welded them into an aluminum tube that acted as a hose coupler. I made one for the rad inlet and one for the outlet to measure temp drop. I used the same gauge and put a switch href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List">http://www.matrohttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ===========
| Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List |
01234567
[quote][b]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List |
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ronhansen123(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:10 pm Post subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor |
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I must have built my plane a little differently in some way as my Stratus muffler is very close to the nose strut bracket and there's no room to install a muffler shroud to funnel heat away from my radiator.� If I could get my water temps down 10 to 15 degrees by doing that I think I'd be a happy camper.� I will look and see if there's room for the muffler to move forward half an inch or so if I had the headers cut and welded 1/2" shorter.� All these ideas are giving me hope.� Thanks.
Ron
On Mon, Jul 11, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Larry McFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com (larry(at)macsmachine.com)> wrote:
[quote]
The stock CHT sensor on the engine, rear pilot�s side, yes.� The sensor is giving you CHT, but coolant temps need to be taken a short distance from the engine.� Sooting up the plugs is usually because of a rich idle mixture. On takeoff and cruise, the carbon trace disappear and reappear as taxi is reduced to idle. ��It�s logical that EGTs are going to be higher with heat kept within the pipes, though I would not have guessed such a difference.
Wrapping pipes to get a 4� to 5 degree better coolant temp with 120-degree higher EGT readings doesn�t seem an equitable argument for wrapping does it!
I�m going to unwrap my pipes and check flying temps, hopefully at < or =l to 85-degree ambient. �It�s possible I could then go to smaller jet sizes as well.� �I�ll let you know when it�s done.
�
Larry McFarland� 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
�
rom: owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Don Walker
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 1:15 PM
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com (stratus-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor
�
Larry, Are you referring to the stock Stratus CHT plugged into the back of the right cylinder head? Tht for me is what is running at 208 and it is the only indication of CHT/water that I have. It is the one Rhiner said to redline at 230 degrees. I don't have a direct water temp indicator.
As for oil temp, I am using the stock Stratus setup. Unlike most, I have an adjustable door directly in front of the oil pan as well as the muff for cooling the oil. My oil ran considerably higher before I added these.
�
My EGT is set at 1450, too, but I don't know how to interpret this with the wrap increasing the heat by 120 while the other temps are virtually unchanged. I switched to smaller jets for summer due to plugs looking a little too sooted up for my taste. Won't that rich mixture foul you valves too?
�
�
From: Larry McFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com (larry(at)macsmachine.com)>
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com (stratus-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Mon, July 11, 2011 12:53:28 PM
Subject: RE: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor
Neat observation!� I may have to unwrap the exhaust pipes to see what numbers come from that.� My coolant temps are never much over 197.
Probably because heat from the raw pipes is contained by the wrap, but I get 1375 to 1425 EGTs.� The CHTs/oil temps are always near 210/220
on 85-degree days.� �On 100-degree days, I�d expect to see coolant temps 205 plus or minus 4 degrees.� �An oil temp reading from the rear face of the oil pan at 185 degrees would cause me to suspect the temp is reading the air around the pan rather than the oil.� The oil temp should be within 10 degrees of the CHT. ��I fly 178/2.78 jets that are as rich as my engine will run well on. The heat muff did reduce the water/head temps as you say, but apparently benefits of wrapping the pipes is subject to how much airflow continues thru from the front of the cowl.
I�d dislike seeing more than 1450 EGT in a climb on a hot day and have set-point to alert at that temp.� Jets seem to be the only thing to affect EGTs.
�
Larry McFarland� 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com
�
From: owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Don Walker
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:52 AM
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com (stratus-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor
�
HI guys. I have two things to analyze. I have been flying in 100degrees plus and my block/coolant temp goes up to 208 degrees. (My oil temp NEVER goes over 185 because I have a heat muff over my muffler for cabin heat). Now, I followed a suggestion in this recent discussion...wrapped my pipes with heat wrap...and my EGT temp went up 120 degrees from 1330 in cruise to 1450...but the head/watertemp only went down about 4 or 5 degrees. The EGT goes up even further in a hard climb with the wrap...1500.
� 1. Is the oil temp being that low a good indication that the rise in head/water temp is not a problem at 1450?
� 2. Would you take off the wrap to get back to 1330 EGT�and fly with the water at 208?� Don Walker�� HDS Stratus, 450 hrs
�
Incidentally, I experimented with airflow measurements over the radiator back on the belly. Laminar airflow from belly surface to about six inches�down is very low. Airflow under the belly starts flowing better over 6" below the belly. this indicated the need for a scoop that extends beyond 6" below the belly in front of the radiator. I added a scoop and got improved cooling.
�
From: Gary Krysztopik <gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com (gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com)>
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com (stratus-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sun, July 10, 2011 9:38:38 PM
Subject: Re: Stratus-List: Coolant temperature sensor
--> Stratus-List message posted by: Gary Krysztopik <gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com (gkrysztopik(at)satx.rr.com)>
I cut up some 1/8" NPT "T" fittings and welded them into an aluminum tube that acted as a hose coupler.� I made one for the rad inlet and one for the outlet to measure temp drop.� I used the same gauge and put a switch href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List">http://www.matrohttp://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ===========
0 12345 67
8
[b]
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d3dw(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:23 pm Post subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor |
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Yes, Larry, I am suspecting you will be able to use smaller jets. The temp difference was clear and accurately recorded on mine on a trial Saturday before wrapping and this morning after the wrap. I will be looking forward to hearing of your results. Regarding my water, with a CHT of 208 and oil temp reading 185, then I suspect my water should be less than 200..if it is in line with yours. Are you using the stock Stratus oil temp on the back of the oil pan?
Another thing I use is an adjustable flow heater core in the right side of the nose, close off the drive belt. It helps in Texas heat for sure, but I have to close it off in the winter. don
From: Larry McFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, July 11, 2011 6:01:40 PM
Subject: RE: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor
[quote] [b]
| | - The Matronics Stratus-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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bryanmmartin
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1018
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| Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:37 pm Post subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor |
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I actually hammered an indentation on the rear of my muffler to get a little more clearance between it and the nose strut. Wrapping the muffler has not had much effect on my water temps but it has had a big effect on my oil temps, probably due to the close proximity of the muffler and the oil pan (and the oil temp sensor).
On Jul 11, 2011, at 8:08 PM, ron hansen wrote:
| Quote: | I must have built my plane a little differently in some way as my Stratus muffler is very close to the nose strut bracket and there's no room to install a muffler shroud to funnel heat away from my radiator. If I could get my water temps down 10 to 15 degrees by doing that I think I'd be a happy camper. I will look and see if there's room for the muffler to move forward half an inch or so if I had the headers cut and welded 1/2" shorter. All these ideas are giving me hope. Thanks.
Ron
|
--
Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL,
RAM Subaru, Stratus redrive.
do not archive.
| | - The Matronics Stratus-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
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Bryan Martin
N61BM, CH 601 XL, Stratus Subaru.
do not archive. |
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larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:57 am Post subject: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor |
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Yes, I use the stock Stratus oil sensor in the back of the oil pan near the muffler cover. Have thought about an oil cooler. Still might be a good idea for the plane and hot days.
Larry McFarland
From: owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-stratus-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Walker
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 7:21 PM
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor
Yes, Larry, I am suspecting you will be able to use smaller jets. The temp difference was clear and accurately recorded on mine on a trial Saturday before wrapping and this morning after the wrap. I will be looking forward to hearing of your results. Regarding my water, with a CHT of 208 and oil temp reading 185, then I suspect my water should be less than 200...if it is in line with yours. Are you using the stock Stratus oil temp on the back of the oil pan?
Another thing I use is an adjustable flow heater core in the right side of the nose, close off the drive belt. It helps in Texas heat for sure, but I have to close it off in the winter. don
From: Larry McFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>
To: stratus-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Mon, July 11, 2011 6:01:40 PM
Subject: RE: [Probable Spam] Re: Coolant temperature sensor | Quote: | | http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Stratus-List |
012345678
[quote][b]
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