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AG5B Alternator Light

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busdriver

Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:33 am Post subject: AG5B Alternator Light

I have a 2001 AG5B with an intermittent flickering alternator light.  My JPI EDM 700 always shows over 28vdc- so the alternator is definitely charging.  I have changed the voltage regulator but the flickering light remains.  Also, alternator will often not come on line after start up but will after turning the alt side of the master off and then back on. Any suggestions?  Thank you in advance.

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:18 am Post subject: AG5B Alternator Light

Can you describe the light you are talking about? Where is it located and what color it is? What make of regulator have you?



 On my 2001AG5B I have a light next to the key start that flickers after starting. However, It is not an alternator light. It is a starter engaged light. With a permenant magnet starter, such as the Skytek, after starter release the starter winds down but is charging the light circuit which causes the light to flicker. If you don't have this type of starter then this light may indicate a tired bendix. My Tiger has  the voltage regulator  on the firewall on the copilot side. The regulator has lights built into it that can be used to determine a problem. 



If you do indeed have an alternator light on the panel then it could be erroneously indicating a voltage problem. Does it stop flickering with increased RPM?



The manual says  up to 32volts is ok so you can check your charging circuit and determine if you have an overvoltage or just an indicator calibration issue



Ned

Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:33 AM, "busdriver" <clmiller(at)netzero.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I have a 2001 AG5B with an intermittent flickering alternator light.  My JPI EDM 700 always shows over 28vdc- so the alternator is definitely charging.  I have changed the voltage regulator but the flickering light remains.  Also, alternator will often not come on line after start up but will after turning the alt side of the master off and then back on. Any suggestions?  Thank you in advance.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350642#350642

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:24 am Post subject: AG5B Alternator Light

Unfortunately, the good folks at American General took a really simple and effective electrical system and fucked the hell out of it.  It was probably designed by the same guy that designed the stupid air intake for the carb.  

Here is what I found on an AG5B that I did a firewall forward on.

After detailing the firewall, getting the freshly powder coated battery mount (silver), the powder coated engine mount (white), and new relays (battery and starter) connected to their respective wiring, I was anxious to get power back on the plane.  I put the charged battery into the mount, ran a jumper to the grounding lug on the engine mount, and turned on the master; nothing.  Ok, so, bad ground.  I ran another  smaller jumper to the primer (remember, it has that funky Murphy valve for a primer) mount; still nothing.  

Are you familiar with the Cannon plug that comes out of the firewall?  One of the wires goes to the back of the vacuum filter for a ground.  I have always thought that looked cheesy.  SOOOOO.  I installed a stud on the firewall not too far off center and adjacent to the Cannon plug.  The idea was to collect the 4 or 5 grounds on the firewall side of the AG5B and put them all on the same ground.  What a concept.  

Over the next couple of hours, I routed, stretched, and shortened all of the ground wires until they fit nicely on the stud.  Just out of curiosity, I connected the ground side of the battery jumper to the stud;  Power.  So, I began removing each wire on the grounding stud until I  found the one that turns-on-the-lights.  Folks, the airplane is not grounded.  All of the power in your AG5B depends on one wire coming out of the cannon plug.  

I also eliminated the black box for the ammeter shunt.  That shunt should be on the other side of the firewall, but that's another story.

I would take the cover off that black box and start checking wires.  Follow them to the alternator and back to the buss (through the black box).  

I've also seen, on a Tiger with less than 100 hours on it, where the terminal lug on the ground cable from the battery to the engine block fractured at the lug on the engine.  They had that thing tied so tight and did not provide a short section for movement.   

Gary

From: busdriver <clmiller(at)netzero.net>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 9:33 AM

Subject: AG5B Alternator Light



--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "busdriver" <clmiller(at)netzero.net (clmiller(at)netzero.net)>



I have a 2001 AG5B with an intermittent flickering alternator light.  My JPI EDM 700 always shows over 28vdc- so the alternator is definitely  charging.  I have changed the voltage regulator but the flickering light remains.  Also, alternator will often not come on line after start up but will after turning the alt side of the master off and then back on. Any suggestions?  Thank you in advance.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtop://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-List"  target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGrumman-Listhttp://forums.matr                     &nbs//www.matronics.com/contribution" =======

 [quote][b]

teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:48 am Post subject: AG5B Alternator Light

Ned,

If you look under that black box, you won't find a voltage regulator.  Unless you put your regulator there.  I don't recall Bert's plane as having a regulator on the firewall.  If I'm not mistaken, it's under the panel.  

Send a pic.

Gary

From: 923te <923te(at)att.net>

To: "teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com"  <teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 11:15 AM

Subject: Re: AG5B Alternator Light



--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: 923te <923te(at)att.net (923te(at)att.net)>



Can you describe the light you are talking about? Where is it located and what color it is? What make of regulator have you?



 On my 2001AG5B I have a light next to the key start that flickers after starting. However, It is not an alternator light. It is a starter engaged light. With a permenant magnet starter, such as the Skytek, after starter release the starter winds down but is charging the light circuit which causes the light to flicker. If you don't have this type of starter then this light may indicate a tired bendix. My Tiger has  the voltage  regulator  on the firewall on the copilot side. The regulator has lights built into it that can be used to determine a problem. 



If you do indeed have an alternator light on the panel then it could be erroneously indicating a voltage problem. Does it stop flickering with increased RPM?



The manual says  up to 32volts is ok so you can check your charging circuit and determine if you have an overvoltage or just an indicator calibration issue



Ned

Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 26, 2011, at 11:33 AM, "busdriver" <clmiller(at)netzero.net (clmiller(at)netzero.net)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   --> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "busdriver" <clmiller(at)netzero.net (clmiller(at)netzero.net)>

 

 I have a 2001 AG5B with an intermittent flickering alternator light.  My JPI EDM 700 always shows over  28vdc- so the alternator is definitely charging.  I have changed the voltage regulator but the flickering light remains.  Also, alternator will often not come on line after start up but will after turning the alt side of the master off and then back on. Any suggestions?  Thank you in advance.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350642#350642

 

 

 

 

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 [quote][b]

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:02 am Post subject: AG5B Alternator Light

My ACU (regulator) is under the panel  attached to the firewall, ie, on the cockpit side of the firewall....not in  the cheezy black box that has the ammeter shunt in it

  

 For a picture see attached PDF from the  manual

 ned

  

  

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busdriver

Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: Re: AG5B Alternator Light

Ned and Gary,

Thank you both very much for the quick, and thorough, responses.  Iâ€™ll attach a picture of the amber Alternator light- top left panel.  I have the Zeftronics 24v solid state voltage regulator- just like the one in your picture.  The light will flicker intermittently regardless of RPM.  It may remain off for over an hour of flight and then begin to flicker (with no change in charging voltage as noted on the EDM 700).

This system does seem way more complicated than it has to be.  I have flown experimentals with GM alternators/ internal regulators that never missed a beat. 

Gary- I will start checking the grounds and the connectionsâ€¦ sounds like I have some work ahead of me.  Am I correct in treating this as an â€œindicatingâ€ problem and not a â€œchargingâ€ problem?  I can verify proper alternator operation with the EDM 700 and the load meter/ voltmeter.  Thanks again for all of your help!

-Curt

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Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: AG5B Alternator Light

Curt

I agree with Gary about you may have an intermittent ground. I had one about to happen when the starter relay wire fell off on my hand. 



I too have flown experimentals with internal regulators. I would encourage you to do anything you can to change it to a controllable external regulator. Or wire it with a relay. 



I had the internal one fail and start pumping 30 volts into my 12 volt battery. There is no way to shut an imternal regulatir off when this happens



See Bob Knuckols at aeroelectric.com and on matronics.com for all the details on this and how to isolate the beast. 



By the time I got the plane on the ground the battery was fried. I was fortunate that it did not blow up and make a mess like one did in my mother inlaws car!



Ned

Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 26, 2011, at 6:29 PM, "busdriver" <clmiller(at)netzero.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Ned and Gary,

 Thank you both very much for the quick, and thorough, responses.  Iâ€™ll attach a picture of the amber Alternator light- top left panel.  I have the Zeftronics 24v solid state voltage regulator- just like the one in your picture.  The light will flicker intermittently regardless of RPM.  It may remain off for over an hour of flight and then begin to flicker (with no change in charging voltage as noted on the EDM 700).

 This system does seem way more complicated than it has to be.  I have flown experimentals with GM alternators/ internal regulators that never missed a beat. 

 Gary- I will start checking the grounds and the connectionsâ€¦ sounds like I have some work ahead of me.  Am I correct in treating this as an â€œindicatingâ€ problem and not a â€œchargingâ€ problem?  I can verify proper alternator operation with the EDM 700 and the load meter/ voltmeter.  Thanks again for all of your help!

 -Curt

 

 

 

 

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teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:15 pm Post subject: AG5B Alternator Light

Curt,

In general, the indicator on an AA5B only indicates if the ALT side of the Master is on and therefore putting power to the field.  It's possible the one in an AG5B does the same.  Check the back of the Master and make sure the connections are tight.  I remember having a problem with a Cheetah (no light) that made the amp needle wiggle.  It was a loose connection on the Master Switch.  May or may not have anything to do with an AG5B, but, what the heck.

Gary

From: busdriver  <clmiller(at)netzero.net>

To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Friday, August 26, 2011 4:29 PM

Subject: Re: AG5B Alternator Light

--> TeamGrumman-List message posted by: "busdriver" <clmiller(at)netzero.net (clmiller(at)netzero.net)>

Ned and Gary,

Thank you both very much for the quick, and thorough, responses.  Iâ€™ll attach a picture of the amber Alternator light- top left panel.  I have the Zeftronics 24v solid state voltage regulator- just like the one in your picture.  The light will flicker intermittently regardless of RPM.  It may remain off for over an hour of flight and then begin to flicker (with no change in charging voltage as noted on the EDM 700).

This system  does seem way more complicated than it has to be.  I have flown experimentals with GM alternators/ internal regulators that never missed a beat. 

Gary- I will start checking the grounds and the connectionsâ€¦ sounds like I have some work ahead of me.  Am I correct in treating this as an â€œindicatingâ€ problem and not a â€œchargingâ€ problem?  I can verify proper alternator operation with the EDM 700 and the load meter/ voltmeter.  Thanks again for all of your help!

-Curt

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=350688#350688

Attachments: 

http://forums.matronics.com//files/curts_pics_029_198.jpamGrumman-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?TeamGr   -->

Discover

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 429

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: AG5B Alternator Light

That reminds me that my light used to flicker  and my avionics guy told me to spray electrical cleaner into the master switch  and work it on and off a bunch. That did away with the flicker. I took the  battery ground cable off first.

  

 It would be worth trying

 Ned

 [quote]   ---

busdriver

Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Florida

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:42 pm Post subject: Re: AG5B Alternator Light

Ned,

Thanks again- I forgot to mention that I put a brand new master switch in also.  Throwing new parts at a problem is not the most cost effective way of troubleshooting... but sometimes the quickest!  Too bad neither part has fixed it...

-Curt

busdriver

Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: AG5B Alternator Light

Alternator light update- Removed the cowling for annual today and found the "AUX" wire pulled loose from the alternator.  I have looked through every diagram I have and cannot find definitively where to hook it back up.  I assume it hooks to one of the "Field" wires that have the jumper between them?  Thank you in advance for any info you can provide.

-Curt

n76lima(at)mindspring.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: AG5B Alternator Light

It attaches to the output post, along with the big wire.

Or at least it does on the 12v, Ford alternators.  Would have to pull the wiring diagram for the AG-5B.

If you have just the wire, then the ring lug ought to still be on the post where it attaches.

--Bob Steward

Birmingham, AL



Sent from Samsung mobile

busdriver

Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 13
Location: Florida

Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: AG5B Alternator Light

Thanks Bob, I guess I'll find out when I pull the alternator.  Hopefully they didn't just crimp it in with another wire on the same connector.  

-Curt

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