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kearney
Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563
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 Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 7:30 am Post subject: Window Glue |
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Hi Geoff
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on the list.
I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will this be some we can buy from you in the new year?
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of g.combs
Sent: December-07-11 6:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: FW: Window Glue
I am considering selling it to builders.
I will know here by the end of the week.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au (rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au)> wrote:
[quote] Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in South Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific agency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide
South Australia
From: Geoff Combs <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff Combs" <[url=mailto:g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com]g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)[/url]>
Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would buy
the 200ML and get 2 of them.
200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts a
little more. The Windshield
is about the same as the door windows.
Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
the fuse at the door
Frame area.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-8659p
614-834-5230f
-----Original Message-----
From: [url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]
[mailto:[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: RE: FW: Window Glue
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
--> <[url=mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net]rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)[/url]>
It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield just
to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
Michael
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:09 am Post subject: Window Glue |
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To add to the glue debate, two other products have worked well for RV-10 windows:
<![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>Hysol (used on Lancair windows): http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT&CatId={992B7B06-E01B-4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869}
<![if !supportLists]>- <![endif]>3M Scotch-Weld: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/3mAdhesive2216.php
Both epoxies require 30 grit or so sanding to rough up the mating surfaces. I used the Hysol on my 10, adding enough flox to thicken it. Keep clamped for a couple of days. After the epoxy set, I filled in any void left around the window joints (only a few spots) with micro-balloons, then sanded flush. I added two bids of medium weight fiberglass over the glue joints, using peel-ply. A fast sand then more balloons to feather in the windows.
I added the fiberglass over the joint as I saw many RV-10 with cracked paint over glass to cabin top joint, as well adding strength to keep the window in place.
I used black electrical tape to mask the inside and outside of the windows. Add a good 1/8” or so bed of glue to avoid holidays. Add enough glue to the window itself to make sure you get adhesion between the two parts when you put the glass in place. You have plenty of working time to clean up any excess that squeezes out. Don’t go crazy with clamp pressure as you want the glue to act to level out the glass/fiberglass mate (in other words, clamp to get the window flush with the cabin top, don’t over clamp and have the glass below the cabin top).
For the front of the windshield I did the micro balloons to provide the fillet per the plans. I then laid up about 4 bids of carbon fiber instead of fiberglass as the plans call out. Micro on top of the carbon fiber and sand.
I’m please with the results. If I ever do another one I think I’ll just use the standard West epoxy and flox as I will again add the fiberglass or carbon over the joints.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:27 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: FW: Window Glue
Hi Geoff
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on the list.
I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will this be some we can buy from you in the new year?
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of g.combs
Sent: December-07-11 6:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: FW: Window Glue
I am considering selling it to builders.
I will know here by the end of the week.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au (rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au)> wrote:
[quote]
Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in South Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific agency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide
South Australia
From: Geoff Combs <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
Subject: RE: FW: Window Glue
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)>
Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would buy
the 200ML and get 2 of them.
200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts a
little more. The Windshield
is about the same as the door windows.
Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
the fuse at the door
Frame area.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-8659p
614-834-5230f
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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aerosport1
Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:18 pm Post subject: Window Glue |
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Yes it is. I will have stock on this within the
Week. I will also have the dispensing guns
Available for rent or to buy.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 24, 2011, at 10:26 AM, "Les Kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:
[quote] Hi Geoff
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on the list.
I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will this be some we can buy from you in the new year?
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of g.combs
Sent: December-07-11 6:00 PM
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: Re: FW: Window Glue
I am considering selling it to builders.
I will know here by the end of the week.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis <[url=mailto:rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au]rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au (rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au)[/url]> wrote:
[quote] Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in South Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific agency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide
South Australia
From: Geoff Combs <[url=mailto:g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com]g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)[/url]>
To: [url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
Subject: RE: RV10-List: FW: Window Glue
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff Combs" < (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)[url=mailto:g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com]g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)[/url]>
Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would buy
the 200ML and get 2 of them.
200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts a
little more. The Windshield
is about the same as the door windows.
Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
the fuse at the door
Frame area.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-8659p
614-834-5230f
-----Original Message-----
From: (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]
[mailto: (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com]owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)[/url]] On Behalf Of RV Builder
(Michael Sausen)
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2011 12:04 PM
To: (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[url=mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com]rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)[/url]
Subject: RE: FW: Window Glue
--> RV10-List message posted by: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)"
--> < (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)[url=mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net]rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)[/url]>
It's been a while and I only used it on the doors so far but I would
budget one kit for each side window and probably 2-3 for the windshield just
to be safe. Someone else may have a better recollection. I did the side
windows with Weldon and I was in such a rush that I forgot to put the
spacers in and had the windows much too low so now there is a transition
down to them. Really wish I had the Lord stuff for those.
Michael
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033 |
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dave.saylor.aircrafters(a
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:22 pm Post subject: Window Glue |
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I used basically the same materials and techniques as Carl for my windshield: Hysol and an overlay of fiberglass.
However, I've come to realize since then that possibly the only reason the windshield stays put is the fact that it's mechanically locked into a groove by the overlays. What I'm saying is that Hysol doesn't stick very well to windows, even on Lancairs, which use an even more robust groove (deeper and thicker material) to lock the windows in place.
So be careful if you choose to use Hysol on the windows. It's probably not the best choice.
Search the archives for "Hysol & window" to see lots more.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 9:05 AM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:
[quote]
To add to the glue debate, two other products have worked well for RV-10 windows:
- Hysol (used on Lancair windows): http://shop.lancair.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=9360-QT&CatId={992B7B06-E01B-4918-BB0C-79343CDB7869}
- 3M Scotch-Weld: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/3mAdhesive2216.php
Both epoxies require 30 grit or so sanding to rough up the mating surfaces. I used the Hysol on my 10, adding enough flox to thicken it. Keep clamped for a couple of days. After the epoxy set, I filled in any void left around the window joints (only a few spots) with micro-balloons, then sanded flush. I added two bids of medium weight fiberglass over the glue joints, using peel-ply. A fast sand then more balloons to feather in the windows.
I added the fiberglass over the joint as I saw many RV-10 with cracked paint over glass to cabin top joint, as well adding strength to keep the window in place.
I used black electrical tape to mask the inside and outside of the windows. Add a good 1/8” or so bed of glue to avoid holidays. Add enough glue to the window itself to make sure you get adhesion between the two parts when you put the glass in place. You have plenty of working time to clean up any excess that squeezes out. Don’t go crazy with clamp pressure as you want the glue to act to level out the glass/fiberglass mate (in other words, clamp to get the window flush with the cabin top, don’t over clamp and have the glass below the cabin top).
For the front of the windshield I did the micro balloons to provide the fillet per the plans. I then laid up about 4 bids of carbon fiber instead of fiberglass as the plans call out. Micro on top of the carbon fiber and sand.
I’m please with the results. If I ever do another one I think I’ll just use the standard West epoxy and flox as I will again add the fiberglass or carbon over the joints.
Carl
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Les Kearney
Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2011 10:27 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: FW: Window Glue
Hi Geoff
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! In fact that goes out to everyone on the list.
I was wondering how you made out with your Lord adhesive supplier. Will this be some we can buy from you in the new year?
Cheers
Les
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of g.combs
Sent: December-07-11 6:00 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: FW: Window Glue
I am considering selling it to builders.
I will know here by the end of the week.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone Geoff
On Dec 7, 2011, at 7:34 PM, Patrick Pulis <rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au (rv10free2fly(at)yahoo.com.au)> wrote:
[quote]
Geoff, I'm struggling to track down the Lord urethane adhesive here in South Australia, could you please indicate if its retailed through a specific agency or alternatively, would you consider supplying it to builders?
Regards
Patrick Pulis
Adelaide
South Australia
From: Geoff Combs <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2011 6:12 AM
Subject: RE: FW: Window Glue
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Geoff Combs" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com (g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com)>
Lord says that a 50ml cartridge will do 4.5 feet at 1/4" bead. I would buy
the 200ML and get 2 of them.
200 ml will do 19 ft. Rear windows are about 6.5 feet circumference fronts a
little more. The Windshield
is about the same as the door windows.
Order 4 extra mixing tips. This is also good for gluing the canopy top to
the fuse at the door
Frame area.
Geoff
Geoff Combs
Aerosport
8090 Howe Industrial Parkway
Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110
614-834-8659p
614-834-5230f
--
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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dmaib@me.com
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 1:02 pm Post subject: Re: Window Glue |
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[quote="dave.saylor.aircrafters(a"]I used basically the same materials and techniques as Carl for my windshield: Hysol and an overlay of fiberglass.
However, I've come to realize since then that possibly the only reason the windshield stays put is the fact that it's mechanically locked into a groove by the overlays. What I'm saying is that Hysol doesn't stick very well to windows, even on Lancairs, which use an even more robust groove (deeper and thicker material) to lock the windows in place.
So be careful if you choose to use Hysol on the windows. It's probably not the best choice.
Search the archives for "Hysol & window" to see lots more.
Dave Saylor
AirCrafters
140 Aviation Way
Watsonville, CA 95076
831-722-9141 Shop
831-750-0284 Cell
--[/quote
I was one or two days away from using Hysol to install my windows back in 2008, when someone on the forum (maybe Rob Hickman?) reported that one of his windows, that had been installed with Hysol some time before, popped out when he accidentally bumped it. I sold my Hysol to a local shop and reverted to the Weld-on and had no problems.
One of the lessons that I had to learn more than one time during the build was: If I was going to do something differently than how Van's recommended, it was wise to think it through very carefully and do plenty of homework. Not to say that Van's ways are always the best, but they are generally well proven. $.02 worth.
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
|
_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL |
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