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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:06 pm Post subject: Sign of the times

Our credit card processing company of some 15 years

has been slowing driving up the fixed fees. I've

just received a letter informing me of my mandatory

enrollment in a "security validation program" for

yet another fixed fee. My gross sales simply won't

support such burdens.



The fixed fees are but part of the $risk$. Their

mandated 'service' might well find that my 'network'

(one computer sitting behind two firewalls) is

vulnerable and needs more $upgrading$ as well.



I'm sorry to have to announce that effective

immediately, the AEC website catalog orders

will have to be paid through PayPal.



I've been thinking about getting a PayPal

friendly shopping cart program . . . the

problem  is the assumption that everything

in the catalog is in stock for shipment now

  . . . or that I'm not out of town. I don't

want to ding folks for cash until their

order is ready to ship. Easy with the old

system. But for the time being, we'll issue PP

invoices as the orders come together.



All CC orders pending will be shipped by

the end of this month under the old system.

All remittance for new orders will have to

flow through PayPal.



Sorry for the inconveniences folks.

   Bob . . .

paul.r.kuntz(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:16 pm Post subject: Sign of the times

No problem, Bob.  I actually prefer PayPal as a means of sending and receiving payments, and I agree with the PayPal objectives of providing an unburdened means for conducting worldwide commerce.  I'm sure most participants on this forum will find PayPal a superior service.



Paul Kuntz 

http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com



Sent from my iPad



On Jan 28, 2012, at 5:58 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Our credit card processing company of some 15 years

 has been slowing driving up the fixed fees. I've

 just received a letter informing me of my mandatory

 enrollment in a "security validation program" for

 yet another fixed fee. My gross sales simply won't

 support such burdens.

 

 The fixed fees are but part of the $risk$. Their

 mandated 'service' might well find that my 'network'

 (one computer sitting behind two firewalls) is

 vulnerable and needs more $upgrading$ as well.

 

 I'm sorry to have to announce that effective

 immediately, the AEC website catalog orders

 will have to be paid through PayPal.

 

 I've been thinking about getting a PayPal

 friendly shopping cart program . . . the

 problem  is the assumption that everything

 in the catalog is in stock for shipment now

 . . . or that I'm not out of town. I don't

 want to ding folks for cash until their

 order is ready to ship. Easy with the old

 system. But for the time being, we'll issue PP

 invoices as the orders come together.

 

 All CC orders pending will be shipped by

 the end of this month under the old system.

 All remittance for new orders will have to

 flow through PayPal.

 

 Sorry for the inconveniences folks.

 

 

  Bob . . .

CBarber

Joined: 10 Aug 2009
Posts: 8
Location: Houston

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:17 pm Post subject: Sign of the times

Bob,



If you have a smart phone, there is a product called "Square" that allows you to use an smart phone to take charges.  They have a little square dongle that plugs into the phone and you can swipe the card.  Yes, that is more for POS sales but IIRC they also allow other charges and the fees are damned near non existence compared to the old line guys.



They send you the dongle free and it is free to set up.



It may not work, but I think it would be worth your time to take a look by just Googling "Square".



Chris Barber

Houston



________________________________________

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] on behalf of Robert L. Nuckolls, III [nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com]

Sent: Saturday, January 28, 2012 7:58 PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Sign of the times






Our credit card processing company of some 15 years

has been slowing driving up the fixed fees. I've

just received a letter informing me of my mandatory

enrollment in a "security validation program" for

yet another fixed fee. My gross sales simply won't

support such burdens.



The fixed fees are but part of the $risk$. Their

mandated 'service' might well find that my 'network'

(one computer sitting behind two firewalls) is

vulnerable and needs more $upgrading$ as well.



I'm sorry to have to announce that effective

immediately, the AEC website catalog orders

will have to be paid through PayPal.



I've been thinking about getting a PayPal

friendly shopping cart program . . . the

problem  is the assumption that everything

in the catalog is in stock for shipment now

  . . . or that I'm not out of town. I don't

want to ding folks for cash until their

order is ready to ship. Easy with the old

system. But for the time being, we'll issue PP

invoices as the orders come together.



All CC orders pending will be shipped by

the end of this month under the old system.

All remittance for new orders will have to

flow through PayPal.



Sorry for the inconveniences folks.

   Bob . . .

_________________
Christopher Barber
Velocity SE/Rotary 13B
Houston

ainut(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:45 pm Post subject: Sign of the times

That part is true, however, PayPal's fees are usurious.



David



Paul Kuntz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 No problem, Bob.  I actually prefer PayPal as a means of sending and receiving payments, and I agree with the PayPal objectives of providing an unburdened means for conducting worldwide commerce.  I'm sure most participants on this forum will find PayPal a superior service.



 Paul Kuntz

 http://www.pipistrelbuilders.com



 Sent from my iPad



 On Jan 28, 2012, at 5:58 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>  wrote:



    

> 

>

> Our credit card processing company of some 15 years

> has been slowing driving up the fixed fees. I've

> just received a letter informing me of my mandatory

> enrollment in a "security validation program" for

> yet another fixed fee. My gross sales simply won't

> support such burdens.

>

> The fixed fees are but part of the $risk$. Their

> mandated 'service' might well find that my 'network'

> (one computer sitting behind two firewalls) is

> vulnerable and needs more $upgrading$ as well.

>

> I'm sorry to have to announce that effective

> immediately, the AEC website catalog orders

> will have to be paid through PayPal.

>

> I've been thinking about getting a PayPal

> friendly shopping cart program . . . the

> problem  is the assumption that everything

> in the catalog is in stock for shipment now

> . . . or that I'm not out of town. I don't

> want to ding folks for cash until their

> order is ready to ship. Easy with the old

> system. But for the time being, we'll issue PP

> invoices as the orders come together.

>

> All CC orders pending will be shipped by

> the end of this month under the old system.

> All remittance for new orders will have to

> flow through PayPal.

>

> Sorry for the inconveniences folks.

>   Bob . . .

>

>

>      



    


	


-- 

Tell the truth.  Be honest.  Be responsible to and for yourself.



I liked America when it was free and it's people were responsible and had morals.



Every gram of cocaine you buy from elsewhere contributes to an innocent being murdered in Central and South America.  Grow your own or Stop taking it.

mrspudandcompany(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:48 am Post subject: Sign of the times

Sorry for the inconveniences folks.

   Bob . . . 

		I actually prefer PayPal. It offers very easy convenient on

line ordering and payment plus it offers another layer of protection for

your credit card account.



		Roger

winmail.dat

Description:

Download

Filename:

winmail.dat

Filesize:

3.3 KB

Downloaded:

414 Time(s)

ceengland(at)bellsouth.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:25 am Post subject: Sign of the times

On 01/28/2012 07:58 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:      	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L.       Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)       

       

       Our credit card processing company of some 15 years       

       has been slowing driving up the fixed fees. I've       

       just received a letter informing me of my mandatory       

       enrollment in a "security validation program" for       

       yet another fixed fee. My gross sales simply won't       

       support such burdens.       

       

       The fixed fees are but part of the $risk$. Their       

       mandated 'service' might well find that my 'network'       

       (one computer sitting behind two firewalls) is       

       vulnerable and needs more $upgrading$ as well.       

       

       I'm sorry to have to announce that effective       

       immediately, the AEC website catalog orders       

       will have to be paid through PayPal.       

       

       I've been thinking about getting a PayPal       

       friendly shopping cart program . . . the       

       problem  is the assumption that everything       

       in the catalog is in stock for shipment now       

        . . . or that I'm not out of town. I don't       

       want to ding folks for cash until their       

       order is ready to ship. Easy with the old       

       system. But for the time being, we'll issue PP       

       invoices as the orders come together.       

       

       All CC orders pending will be shipped by       

       the end of this month under the old system.       

       All remittance for new orders will have to       

       flow through PayPal.       

       

       Sorry for the inconveniences folks.       

       

       

         Bob . . .

     	
     

     I feel your pain. For me, PayPal is actually much easier to use, but     the transaction fees are pretty extreme for the seller. 

     

     I'm fired up about all the various incarnations of 'open source',     from Linux operating systems to no-charge software to groups like     this, which offer minimal cost assistance with the confidence     someone will be helping us in the future.

     

     I saw this a few months ago.

          http://drupal.org/project/dwolla

     

     It's apparently a pretty small company at this point, but it's     gotten coverage from some major media outlets. This movement to     provide needed services at a truly fair cost has the potential to     change our culture.

     

     Charlie

      [quote][b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:41 am Post subject: Sign of the times

Bob,



Too bad, but I understand.  I have a Pay-Pal account which I actually use once in a while.  Not an inconvenience, if I can just remember the password…



Blue skies & tailwinds,

Bob Borger

Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop.

Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208-5331

Cel: 817-992-1117

rlborger(at)mac.com



On Jan 28, 2012, at 7:58 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 All remittance for new orders will have to

 flow through PayPal.

 

 Sorry for the inconveniences folks.

 

 

  Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:07 am Post subject: Sign of the times

At 12:14 AM 1/29/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



That part is true, however, PayPal's fees are usurious.


	


    Except that it is proportional to cash flow. The

    CC processing company was hitting me for by

    the month fees whether I moved any funds or

    not.

   Bob . . .

grosseair(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:42 am Post subject: Sign of the times

I've used PayPal since it started up and was actually free. It's 

certainly not that anymore. Generally it works well for the buyer, at 

least. One caution though: if you ever have a dispute over anything 

you're pretty much on your own. I had a problem with a seller and had a 

terrible time even getting through to a human being in customer service 

and got absolutely no help from PayPal to resolve my problem. I would 

suggest that you set up a special bank account to link to your PayPal 

account in a different bank than your primary accounts so that they 

can't freeze all your accounts if there's a dispute. If you google 

"paypal sucks" you'll find a website that details some of the cautions 

in using the service. I don't mean to scare you off, but just beware!



John Grosse



PS: I don't know if your credit card problem is with your bank or what, 

but I recently switched from a big bank to a credit union and am SO 

happy. Better rates, better service, real people when you call, and no 

BS. Everyone I know who has switched has had a similar experience.

riggs_la(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:50 am Post subject: Sign of the times

I run a vacation rental for two vacation home and I found PayPal to be more

reasonable than most other credit card processing companies.



Lynn Riggs

riggs_la(at)yahoo.com

http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p352107

http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p293990



--

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:50 am Post subject: Sign of the times

At 08:31 AM 1/29/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Bob,



Too bad, but I understand.  I have a Pay-Pal 

account which I actually use once in a 

while.  Not an inconvenience, if I can just remember the password…


	


    I've had a PP account for years. Since I live out

    in the hinterlands, EVERYTHING is 100 miles away.

    When a project comes to a crawl (or dead in the water)

    for lack of some item, the first place I look is eBay.

    Probably 80% of the time I can find what I need there

    even if it's a week or more away . . . just move on

    to another project until the stuff arrives.



    PP is exceedingly buyer friendly. I've even considered

    going to an eBay Store format as opposed to my website

    catalog page, but then I pay listing fees on top of

    seller fees. Of course those can be compensate for

    in my pricing but for now, I'd rather keep everything

    humming on Matt's servers. Perhaps not practical from

    a business sense but it preserves the fraternity.



    There's something to be said for doing business with

    the folks you KNOW.



   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:58 am Post subject: Sign of the times

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I saw this a few months ago.

  http://drupal.org/project/dwolla



 It's apparently a pretty small company at this point, but it's gotten coverage from some major media outlets. This movement to provide needed services at a truly fair cost has the potential to change our culture. 	


    Thanks for the heads-up! I'll watch these

    guys. What we're witnessing is the effect of

    entrepreneur's creativity when some "need" or

    competitive opportunity is perceived.  I think

    there are several PayPal-like activities operating

    now.



    Just as entrepreneur-driven experimental aviation

    has offered an alternative to TC aircraft, folks

    with Internet, computers, and big ideas will

    at least make things more convenient and economical

    for our grandkids! 



 

   Bob . . .    [quote][b]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:24 am Post subject: Sign of the times

At 09:38 AM 1/29/2012, you wrote:




If you google "paypal sucks" you'll find a website that details some 

of the cautions in using the service. I don't mean to scare you off, 

but just beware!



    This is offset by buying on eBay. Their buyer protection

    service (applies only to purchases on eBay) is pretty

    effective. Had a dispute with a seller a couple of years

    ago that eBay resolved.



    Given the underlying foundation of honorable behavior

    amongst our fellow aviators, I don't anticipate any

    risks. If anyone wants their money back from me . . .

    all they gotta do is say so.



John Grosse



PS: I don't know if your credit card problem is with your bank or what



    The problem is with the company that processes

    credit card sales for business and transfers

    money to the bank. They're 'like' PayPal but

    apparently don't have the security sophistication

    offered by PayPal (or price structures friendly

    to small volume merchants).

   Bob . . .

rd2(at)dejazzd.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:00 am Post subject: Sign of the times

Re. paypal, just be aware that they can link and mix accounting for items purchased and sold (creates an accounting nightmare, if one uses paypal both for business and personal) and getting your money can be sometimes much less smooth than a credit card merchant account or check by phone/fax.



If one accepts the possibility for additional burden and risks, nothing wrong with using paypal. Just be informed.



Speaking from personal experience, I try to limit paypal transactions (both purchases and sales) and would like to entirely eliminate them. 

Just my 0.02

Rumen



do not archive

Speedy11(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject: Sign of the times

Personally I despise Paypal and I refuse to use their service.  I've  had very poor service from them and their fees are too high.

 I understand the problem with CC fees and I'm glad to see you are being  proactive to find another means to sell your products.  But, some of us  will want to pay by check rather than enrich Paypal.

 Stan Sutterfield

 Port Orange, FL

  

  In a message dated 1/29/2012 3:03:14 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I    actually prefer PayPal as a means of sending and receiving

payments, and I    agree with the PayPal objectives of providing an unburdened means

for    conducting worldwide commerce.  I'm sure most participants on this    forum

will find PayPal a superior  service.

	


 [quote][b]

mmayfield

Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 40
Location: NSW Central Coast, Australia

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:52 pm Post subject: Re: Sign of the times

Not trying to be a "glass half empty" guy here, but just a realist.



You can't escape human greed wherever you turn. Even new startups that promise this almost philanthropic view of better value for the customer often gradually slide into the "hey we can make heaps more money out of this if we tie them into this contract and....(insert means of screwing customer here)". That's the double-edged sword of the free market coupled with our human nature.



I don't mind PayPal, however the comments above regarding disputes with the seller are quite true. You're on your own (as I found out). The major cards (M/C, Visa etc) are much better for that in my experience, and if I don't know the seller, I won't touch PayPal.

_________________
Mike

ainut(at)knology.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: Sign of the times

Aren't PayPal and Ebay the same company?



David M.



Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com>



 At 09:38 AM 1/29/2012, you wrote:

 

 <grosseair(at)comcast.net>



 If you google "paypal sucks" you'll find a website that details some 

 of the cautions in using the service. I don't mean to scare you off, 

 but just beware!



    This is offset by buying on eBay. Their buyer protection

    service (applies only to purchases on eBay) is pretty

    effective. Had a dispute with a seller a couple of years

    ago that eBay resolved.



    Given the underlying foundation of honorable behavior

    amongst our fellow aviators, I don't anticipate any

    risks. If anyone wants their money back from me . . .

    all they gotta do is say so.



 John Grosse



 PS: I don't know if your credit card problem is with your bank or what



    The problem is with the company that processes

    credit card sales for business and transfers

    money to the bank. They're 'like' PayPal but

    apparently don't have the security sophistication

    offered by PayPal (or price structures friendly

    to small volume merchants).

   Bob . . .




	


-- 

Tell the truth.  Be honest.  Be responsible to and for yourself.



I liked America when it was free and it's people were responsible and had morals.



Every gram of cocaine you buy from elsewhere contributes to an innocent being murdered in Central and South America.  Grow your own or Stop taking it.

raymondj(at)frontiernet.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: Sign of the times

I'll second your realism.



do not archive



Raymond Julian

Kettle River, MN



"And you know that I could have me a million more friends,

and all I'd have to lose is my point of view." - John Prine



On 01/29/2012 11:52 PM, mmayfield wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Not trying to be a "glass half empty" guy here, but just a realist.



 You can't escape human greed wherever you turn. Even new startups that promise this almost philanthropic view of better value for the customer often gradually slide into the "hey we can make heaps more money out of this if we tie them into this contract and....(insert means of screwing customer here)"'. That's the double-edge sword of the free market coupled with our human nature.



 I don't mind PayPal, however the comments above regarding disputes with the seller are quite true. You're on your own (as I found out). The major cards (M/C, Visa etc) are much better for that in my experience, and if I don't know the seller, I won't touch PayPal.



 --------

 Mike



 Your political opinions are noted. And ignored.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=365190#365190

grosseair(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:19 am Post subject: Sign of the times

Ebay owns PayPal, but technically they are different companies and they 

started out independently.

John Grosse



David wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Aren't PayPal and Ebay the same company?



 David M.

tonybabb(at)alejandra.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:44 am Post subject: Sign of the times

Hi Bob,

I don't often comment on the list, been lurking for a long time though. 

My wife and I run a small company and went through a similar issue some

months ago. In our case we accepted credit card orders by phone and

processed them on a separate terminal we've used for years and also took

website orders using PayPal. We eventually stopped accepting credit card

phone orders simply because the fixed fees were exorbitant. I see others

have commented on PayPal's fees, they seem fairly reasonable to me and there

is no fixed fee. Basically we're paying 30 cents plus 2.9% of the order

total. Roughly it's about 3% of most orders which is similar, I believe, to

what much bigger merchants pay MC and Visa.



My .02c



Tony. 



--

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