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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:13 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Good Morning RalphMariaFinch,
I use the name above because there is no other salutation or signature on your note.
My recollection is that Matt does request that all communications to his list include such information.
In any case. I would be happy if the government does not come and look for me.
I happily drive my car all over the USA and never ask any governmental agency to follow my track. When I want my travels followed, I use many methods based on where I am traveling, the mode of travel, and the relative danger that might be associated with that travel.
The original ELT was and is a basic disaster. Typical of all government programs, it costs more and provides less help than most other methods that are available. The new units are better, but still not as positive as other methods that we can use IF we desire.
Personally, I do carry a PLB. I also carry a portable GPS and a portable VHF radio. I also use and encourage my family to use a SPOT. Sure, I may use governmental services if they are available, but I will have chosen the method and evaluated the risk versus cost.
Individual choice is the way it should be done. I do not want you or anyone else to pay for a search to find me or my remains.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, IL
Stearman N3977A
Bonanza N20318
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 4/9/2012 12:22:34 A.M. Central Daylight Time, ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | I wouldn't mind if it were optional, but then for those who don't carry one, I don't want to pay taxes to go look for you.
The ELT requirement started when a Congresscritter disappeared in his light plane in Alaska and the military spent a lot of time and money looking for him. Never did find him. You can say they're worthless all you want (ELTs, I mean) but since the government spends money to look for you they have the right to force you to make their job easier.
On Sun, Apr 8, 2012 at 9:57 AM, <Speedy11(at)aol.com (Speedy11(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Old Bob is right on target.
ELTs are a government-required waste of money. The decision to carry one should be at the choice of the owner/operator. I don't care if mine works or not. I don't plan to depend on it.
As Bob said, "Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy"
Check Six,
Old Stan
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email(at)jaredyates.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:40 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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As a side note to the airliner discussion, each airliner that I have operated (thus far) has had an ELT. As you say, it has been operated under IFR, but it has also been followed by a staff of trained and certificated dispatchers in a well-equipped operations center, complete within fancy computers and back up generators. It's been flown according to pre-planned route, with two current, medically certified, qualified crewmembers at the controls. And of course, a staff of operators at the arrival point who have a written plan for what to do if the airplane doesn't show up on time. We've also carried a CVR and FDR, both of which also have their own locating beacons. Finally, we've carried enough fuel to make a huge smoking hole event crash. Safety is often in the eye of the beholder, but I think it's an exaggeration to think that you have the same level of safety as an airliner when it comes to search and rescue. It's easy for you to say that you don't want any help with SAR, but until the FAA makes that a box that you can check on the flight plan form, I don't see how you're going to opt out from practical standpoint. It's sort of like believing that you can opt out of the healthcare system- perhaps possible but highly unlikely in practice.
[quote] I can do at least as good a job of providing guidance for recovery of my aircraft as do the air carriers. I might elect to fly IFR at all times or I may just decide that I do not want any help if I should fail to get where I am going.
In a message dated 4/7/2012 1:01:40 P.M. Central Daylight Time, dee.whittington(at)gmail.com (dee.whittington(at)gmail.com) writes:
| Quote: | Bob,
As I understand it, the reason commercial airliners don't have ELTs is they are always in contact with ATC and on IFR flight plans. If they crash, there is no question of locating them unlike a GA airplane which can choose to fly VFR with no flight plan and not in touch with ATC.
Dee
On Sat, Apr 7, 2012 at 1:45 PM, <BobsV35B(at)aol.com (BobsV35B(at)aol.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Good Afternoon Tim,
Maybe the builder feels the same about an ELT as I do.
Possibly he/she is just trying to be legal but does not care a whit whether or not it works!
My feeling is that the use of an ELT should be a decision for the owner/operator, NOT a requirement of the law.
Airliners are not required to carry one. Why should we?
Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy.
Do Not Archive.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Brookeridge Air Park
N3977A
In a message dated 4/7/2012 12:31:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net (tim2542(at)sbcglobal.net) writes:
| Quote: | Well certainly the omni-directional characteristics of the 1/4 wave antenna are ruined, the vswr, is probably affected, it's horizontally polarized and nicely shielded......It might still work but you'll never know until you need it. If you want to hide ALL the antennas inside structure you probably need a glass plane.... 
Tim
Cozy Mk IV
Sent from my iPad
On Apr 7, 2012, at 10:32 AM, "Jeff Luckey" <JLuckey(at)pacbell.net (JLuckey(at)pacbell.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Please see attached picture:
Please understand that my intention is not to be critical, but to learn…
Is this an effective way to mount an ELT antenna?
I understand why this builder chose to mount it this way. But I have concerns that there is a great deal of signal-blocking structure very close to the antenna.
What do you RF gurus think?
-RF neophyte
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ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:29 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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| Quote: | Personally, I do carry a PLB.
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And if you activate that, who will come looking for you? Not your friends or family, but the government, on the taxpayer's dime. So you confirm that you are not as independent as your mythology tells you.
[quote][b]
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rd2(at)dejazzd.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:43 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Not exactly, Robert  - our numbers are greater than 3 or 4 - there are many more of us who are not relinquishing freedoms for imposed "safety", "well-being", "welfare" etc. But that's beyond the scope of this list.
Rumen
do not archive
---- Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com> wrote:
Guess it makes 3 of us.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914 w/ Intercooler & Airmaster C/S Prop
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming AEIO-320 EXP
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208-5331
H: 940-497-2123
C: 817-992-1117
On Apr 08, 2012, at 12:18 PM, BobsV35B(at)aol.com wrote:
Hi Stan,
Nice to know I am not alone!
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
Do Not Archive
In a message dated 4/8/2012 12:00:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Speedy11(at)aol.com writes:
Old Bob is right on target.
ELTs are a government-required waste of money. The decision to carry one should be at the choice of the owner/operator. I don't care if mine works or not. I don't plan to depend on it.
As Bob said, "Too many rules driven by pure bureaucracy"
========================
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:07 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Just for accuracy, It wasn't just one congresscritter, it was the House
Majority Leader, along with the only House Member for Alaska, along with
2 others in a charter Cessna 310 with a professional, experienced
pilot....not just a little light plane out for a joy ride. Perhaps that
is why in recent years the Sec. Service has insisted on military
aircraft carrying the Majority Leader. BTW Canada had been requiring
ELTs for a year or two when this happened.
On 4/8/2012 10:19 PM, Ralph Finch wrote:
| Quote: |
The ELT requirement started when a Congresscritter disappeared in his
light plane in Alaska and the military spent a lot of time and money
looking for him. Never did find him. You can say they're worthless all
you want (ELTs, I mean) but since the government spends money to look
for you they have the right to force you to make their job easier.****
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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
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BobsV35B(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:09 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Good Morning ralphmariafinch,
Obviously I disagree with every point you mention, but this discussion has no place on this list.
It started when I suggested that the builder placing his antenna in that rather unconventional position was like me and did not feel that good performance from the ELT was important.
And ---- I still follow Matt's request as to identifying ourselves and as to adding Do Not Archive, to messages of little importance such as this.
Happy Skies,
Old Bob
AKA
Bob Siegfried
Downers Grove, Illinois
Piper Pacer PA-20
In a message dated 4/9/2012 8:29:56 A.M. Central Daylight Time, ralphmariafinch(at)gmail.com writes:
| Quote: | | Quote: | Personally, I do carry a PLB.
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And if you activate that, who will come looking for you? Not your friends or family, but the government, on the taxpayer's dime. So you confirm that you are not as independent as your mythology tells you.
|
[quote][b]
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:38 am Post subject: ELT Antenna Mount |
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Folks,
It seems were getting a lot of ancillary issues
injected to the conversation. With respect to
the original question, installing the antenna in
this manner is guaranteed to offer a substantial
reduction of the system's ability to function.
The relative effectiveness of emergency locator
beacons took a 1000-fold jump when the technology
added a GPS location tag to the ELT output. The
over-all effectiveness is still limited by logistics.
When minutes count, help is only hours away.
Nonetheless, out of tens of thousands of ELT systems-
installed, a few will be part of the post
accident scenario. Fewer still will be credited
with causing a happy ending.
The regulatory matters surrounding ELT installations
is only a symptom of the growing sphere of influence
being exerted by an ever expanding cadre of regulators
in all venues. All honorable citizens are encouraged
to join the struggle to curtail such adventures. There
are plenty of on-topic forums in which those pursuits
can be exercised. Just not here.
Bob . . .
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n395v
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:01 am Post subject: Re: ELT Antenna Mount |
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| Quote: | | but he did sign the bill mandating ELTs. |
Actually he signed the act enabling OSHA in which the ELT was attached as a last minute rider.
Seems they had to pass it to know what was in it.
Do not Archive
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