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"Hypethetically"

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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:25 am Post subject: "Hypethetically"

It sounds like a "data plate restoration", where an antique airplane restorer has nothing but a data plate and an airwothiness certificate and, well, replaces everything else and has an original antique airplane when he's done.



 What you're describing, the way you're describing it, isn't legal... but it's perfectly legal to, say, replace the wings with a set of used wings, and replace the fuselage with a good used fuselage, install a new used engine and... well, you get the idea.  Just a situation where the decision might be just how verbose to be in the logbook...



 A single seat FSII would certainly be overweight for 103, but it wouldn't be the first one.



 -Dana 



 At 10:37 PM 5/5/2012, FIRESTARII wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "FIRESTARII" <CCMFarms(at)aol.com>



 If a guy currently had a registered and N-Numbered FSII and "Happened" to 

 Find a really good deal on an unregistered FSII, The same exact make and model, would it be possible to use the existing paper work and N-Number on the other airplane to make it legal???  Of course this is pure theroy.   Just something to mull over while hanger flying.  Let's also assume the unregistered FSII is WAY nicer and newer than the registered one.  Then re-power the old one with say a 447 and a 5 gallon tank, 1 seat and sell as part 103 UL???? This is of course all speculation of course but the issue "May" have come across a friends desk and if its possible I know a guy who knows a guy who may be interested in moving forward with the deal? .  Looking for yeah or neah here not a toung lashing,  please also my friend of a friend is asking BEFOR doing and not the other way around.  I think my friend is a good guy who flys very safe and respects the law, when the law makes logical sense and does not make an otherwise perfectly airworthy airplane un-airworthy because o!

  f a piece of paper and a few extra bucks in uncle SAMs  pockets!  Let me know what you think so I cal steer my friend in the correct direction.



 --------

 Low and Slow FireStar II



 



 

 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372481#372481



 



 



 



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    [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: "Hypethetically"

My friend was not sure about the 447 powered version meeting all the 103

criteria it was a topic of discussion though!  Outside of weight I think it

would fit in the categorie and unless the FAA(Friendly Aviation Associates)

had a set of scales in their car they would be hard pressed to prove it!



--------

Low and Slow FireStar II

 

Kolbers:



Wonder if this guy's friend knows you are posting this info on an open email

list?



Yes, even the FAA knows a FF will barely make Part 103 if starved to death.

They also know that all the other models of Kolbs will not even get close to

Part 103 requirements.



Your friend does not seem to be very well educated in Kolb aircraft.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 10:52 am Post subject: "Hypethetically"

Friend of mine swears that his 377 powered, single seat, 5 

rib  Firestar makes UL legal wt..  Herb

At 01:08 PM 5/6/2012, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  






My friend was not sure about the 447 powered version meeting all the 103

criteria it was a topic of discussion though!  Outside of weight I think it

would fit in the categorie and unless the FAA(Friendly Aviation Associates)

had a set of scales in their car they would be hard pressed to prove it!



--------

Low and Slow FireStar II



Kolbers:



Wonder if this guy's friend knows you are posting this info on an open email

list?



Yes, even the FAA knows a FF will barely make Part 103 if starved to death.

They also know that all the other models of Kolbs will not even get close to

Part 103 requirements.



Your friend does not seem to be very well educated in Kolb aircraft.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

FIRESTARII

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 32

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 1:40 pm Post subject: Re:

Education is a relative term and is subject to the standards set forth by the judging party.  Hence a brain surgeon is well versed on the human brain but would be relatively ignorant in a discussion with a proctologist!  Never the less they could have a meaningful discussion about HMO's and frivolous law suits and mutually enjoy the various different prospectives.  One might even argue that the brain surgeon and proctologist, both doctors, view the same person from opposite ends!  

The same argument could be made about aviation safety.   Is it safe to do a snap roll on take off???  The answer is both yes and no, neither one is necessarily correct.   If a newbie sport pilot tries it, it is reasonable to call it unsafe however, if Shaun Tucker were to do it nobody would call it unreasonably dangerous or foolish!   

Also what exactly is a safe, properly registered EAB airplane any how?   Who knows?  One FSDO's answer frequently varies quite a lot from another.  What makes an EAB airworthy...the DAR and the paper work not necessarily the airplane.  My friend has flown some "Certificated" "Real" airplanes that were far less physically airworthy than a non-certificated EAB's.  What makes an airplane airworthy???  The paper work not the airplane.  Is it legal to fly an airplane out of annual, YES.  Is it legal to fly an airplane with broken parts, yes!  Is it legal to fly through class B airspace without a transponder, YES!   Why, because of paperwork, if paperwork is all in order then all these things become not only legal but safe if executed properly.

As for the discussion taking place on a public, open forum....You hit the nail on the head of one of the major, major problems with aviation!  If an individual has a question or situation that falls outside of what most consider the norm,  who can he or she discuss it with?   Most just bury it or hide it or pretend it never happened out of fear of false accusations/assumptions by others.   That being the case more often then not, how then as aviators, are we to learn as well as teach others!  

I opened this thread for "My friend" because if the question/thought crossed his mind then I find it entirely likely this is not the first time the issue has come up!

Perhaps if we can discuss it for what it is then rather than calling foul...we can all learn a little something and be safer and better educated in the end!!!!!

_________________
Low and Slow FireStar II

Dennis Thate

Joined: 18 Nov 2010
Posts: 362

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 4:38 pm Post subject: Re: " Hypethetically"

Grammar Nazi's.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

97.09 KB

Viewed:

13310 Time(s)

_________________
Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society. The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute. ~Gil Stern

undoctor

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Bethelhem, PA

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 5:12 pm Post subject: "Hypethetically"

The lights are on but nobody's home.



On 5/6/2012 8:38 PM, Dennis Thate wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 [Wink]  



 --------

 Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society.  The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.  ~Gil Stern





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372523#372523





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/grammar_nazis_390.jpg

FIRESTARII

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 32

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:22 pm Post subject: Re:

Grammar never was my strong point and at least the lights are on!   

Step 1, check!

_________________
Low and Slow FireStar II

brubakermal(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun May 06, 2012 7:28 pm Post subject: "Hypethetically"

my first kolb was a firestar KXP I bout it from Homer it was one of the  factory built demo planes all the guys flew her she  had the 7 rib wing 447  and no N number.  that was then, NOW most would tell you its not a good idea,  but last summer  we sold Dick Rayhills FS11 with no n# 

 for $7K . Curently  you will not find a plane for sale on My web site that has  no N# contrary to what you mite read about me in resent posts. the hole N# and UL thing will alwase be a topic of great debate.    BTW I will be posting a nice low time MK3 extra with a jab 2200 in a couple days.    



 

Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker 

Michigan Sport Pilot Repair 

 http://michigansportpilotrepair.com

 LSRM-A, PPC, WS

Great Sails - Sailmaker 

for Ultralight & Light Sport

(989)513-3022

  

  

  

  

      

  From: FIRESTARII <CCMFarms(at)aol.com>

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 5:40 PM

 Subject: Re: "Hypethetically"

  

 

 --> Kolb-List message posted by: "FIRESTARII" <CCMFarms(at)aol.com (CCMFarms(at)aol.com)>



Education is a relative term and is subject to the standards set forth by the judging party.  Hence a brain surgeon is well versed on the human brain but would be relatively ignorant in a discussion with a proctologist!  Never the less they could have a meaningful discussion about HMO's and frivolous law suits and mutually enjoy the various different prospectives.  One might even argue that the brain surgeon and proctologist, both doctors, view the same person from opposite ends!  

The same argument could be made about aviation safety.   Is it safe to do a snap roll on take off???  The answer is both yes and no, neither one is necessarily correct.   If a newbie sport pilot tries it, it is reasonable to call it unsafe however, if Shaun Tucker were to do it nobody would  call it unreasonably dangerous or foolish!   

Also what exactly is a safe, properly registered EAB airplane any how?   Who knows?  One FSDO's answer frequently varies quite a lot from another.  What makes an EAB airworthy...the DAR and the paper work not necessarily the airplane.  My friend has flown some "Certificated" "Real" airplanes that were far less physically airworthy than a non-certificated EAB's.  What makes an airplane airworthy???  The paper work not the airplane.  Is it legal to fly an airplane out of annual, YES.  Is it legal to fly an airplane with broken parts, yes!  Is it legal to fly through class B airspace without a transponder, YES!   Why, because of paperwork, if paperwork is all in order then all these things become not only legal but safe if executed properly.

As for the discussion taking place on a public, open forum....You hit the nail on the head of one of the major,  major problems with aviation!  If an individual has a question or situation that falls outside of what most consider the norm,  who can he or she discuss it with?   Most just bury it or hide it or pretend it never happened out of fear of false accusations/assumptions by others.   That being the case more often then not, how then as aviators, are we to learn as well as teach others!  

I opened this thread for "My friend" because if the question/thought crossed his mind then I find it entirely likely this is not the first time the issue has come up!

Perhaps if we can discuss it for what it is then rather than calling foul...we can all learn a little something and be safer and better educated in the end!!!!!



--------

Low and Slow FireStar II





Read this topic online  here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372514#372514http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 8:05 am Post subject: "Hypethetically"

Dennis

This is NOT Kolb-related!

Russ

On May 6, 2012, at 8:38 PM, Dennis Thate wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 [Wink]  

 

 --------

 Both optimists and pessimists contribute to our society.  The optimist invents the airplane and the pessimist the parachute.  ~Gil Stern

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372523#372523

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/grammar_nazis_390.jpg

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:13 am Post subject: "Hypethetically"

 	  Quote: 	
		  Dennis

"This is NOT Kolb-related!"

Russ

	




Russ, 



  I don't think it matters to him.  Several guys have tried, but nothing seems gets through to him.

It's as if he thinks we're all his knitting circle, awaiting on his next little link of amazement.

  Frankly, I'm not sure what bothers me more, his incessant non-Kolb links, or his fascination

with "winking" at everything he posts.  Evidently, he is okay with winking at a forum where 99%

of the readers are men.  Personally, I'd rather be excluded from all the winking, it creeps me out!!

I'm getting a case of the willies just thinking about it.

Mike Welch

 	  Quote: 	
		  



On May 6, 2012, at 8:38 PM, Dennis Thate wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com (retroman(at)frontier.com)>



[Wink]

undoctor

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Bethelhem, PA

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 9:34 am Post subject: "Hypethetically"

Like I said, lights are on but nobody's home. He just doesn't get it. 

Dave Kulp

Bethlehem, PA



Sent from my iPhone



On May 7, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Michael Welch <mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com (mdnanwelch7(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:



[quote] 	  Quote: 	
		  Dennis

"This is NOT Kolb-related!"

Russ

	




Russ, 



  I don't think it matters to him.  Several guys have tried, but nothing seems gets through to him.

It's as if he thinks we're all his knitting circle, awaiting on his next little link of amazement.

  Frankly, I'm not sure what bothers me more, his incessant non-Kolb links, or his fascination

with "winking" at everything he posts.  Evidently, he is okay with winking at a forum where 99%

of the readers are men.  Personally, I'd rather be excluded from all the winking, it creeps me out!!

I'm getting a case of the willies just thinking about it.

Mike Welch

 	  Quote: 	
		  



On May 6, 2012, at 8:38 PM, Dennis Thate wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Thate" <[url=mailto:retroman(at)frontier.com]retroman(at)frontier.com (retroman(at)frontier.com)[/url]>



[Wink]  



	






===================================

ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

===================================

ums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

===================================

http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

===================================



	


[b]

FIRESTARII

Joined: 24 Aug 2011
Posts: 32

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: Re:

How is this not Kolb related  The entire thread was based on a Kolb question?    frankly I like the little smiley faces   As far as lights and not getting it, not accurate.   The only part I don't get is why all you "Men" are getting your undies in a bunch over a simple question?  I bet a discussion over Sunday morning coffe results in a near fist fight!  the only part I don't get is why so many people think that their way is the only way and that there is only one correct answer for any given situation    I have flown with and worked with people like that my whole life.  they fly like they are sky gods and then when they make a mistake it's never ever their fault.  There is always an excuse,  turbulence, crosswinds or airplane problems.  never once does it occur to them that it may possibly be pilot error and if it does they find a reason to blame somebody else.  It's people like this who get into arguments on the tarmack with guys who don't call every leg in the pattern on a perfect VFR day.   then blame the other guy because he messed up their pattern and they had to go around because he didn't follow local procedures.  Ugh this is starting to sound like a bunch of privat pilot students who think they are airline pilots because they just soloed. 

I know these type of sky gods because I deal with them all the time.  true I may not get it but that's why I asked!  I fully realize I have much to learn but the ticket in my pocket also says ATP, ME-CFII, with type ratings on the back.  so for those or you who think I am a fool go right ahead!  I was not given those ratings, I earned them and I am going into my 24 year of flying.  I have been around the pattern a few times.   I have paid dues far higher than some on this forum and continue to fly professionally in some very high proformance aircraft.  So Boo Whoo if ya don't like what I have to say!

_________________
Low and Slow FireStar II

Mike Welch

Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 272

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:30 pm Post subject: "Hypethetically"

How about a little clarity, for those that don't see things clearly?



First of all, in my opinion, Thom affixed his complaint to Dennis on a post Dennis did that

wasn't bad at all.  (that post dealt with Minn. private airports...a reasonably acceptable post to the

Kolb list, IMO).  I may be wrong, but from what Thom said, I got the impression he may have been referring

Dennis' recent post "I have a Dream".  But I also think therein lies the problem....things get all twisted

and the next thing you know, 'some' people are getting ALL kinds of facts wrong!

No, the entire thread is NOT based on your question, at least not from what I understand.  The thread had

your subject "Hypethetically", but it deviated from the original discussion.

No one was making ANY negative reference to you, nor anything you had to say.  Yes, you started the thread,

but I think it got hijacked (as usual) with people not paying attention to "the original post",  and making inaccurate 

references to who said what to whom.

It seems to me, you got your panties in a bunch because you are taking offense when none was directed at you

at all.

At least 7 people I know of have politely requested Dennis Thate to keep his post Kolb related.  Seems to last

for about 2-3 days.

And who in the hell said anything about smiley faces?  Do you have difficulty with reading comprehension?

Oh, and try signing your posts.

Mike Welch



On May 7, 2012, at 2:19 PM, FIRESTARII wrote:

[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "FIRESTARII" <CCMFarms(at)aol.com (CCMFarms(at)aol.com)>



How is this not Kolb related [Shocked] The entire thread was based on a Kolb question? [Crying or Very sad]   frankly I like the little smiley faces   As far as lights and not getting it, not accurate.   The only part I don't get is why all you "Men" are getting your undies in a bunch over a simple question?  I bet a discussion over Sunday morning coffe results in a near fist fight!  the only part I don't get is why so many people think that their way is the only way and that there is only one correct answer for any given situation    I have flown with and worked with people like that my whole life.  they fly like they are sky gods and then when they make a mistake it's never ever their fault.  There is always an excuse,  turbulence, crosswinds or airplane problems.  never once does it occur to them that it may possibly be pilot error and if it does they find a reason to blame somebody else.  It's people like this who get into arguments on the tarmack with guys who don't!

  call every leg in the pattern on a perfect VFR day.   then blame the other guy because he messed up their pattern and they had to go around because he didn't follow local procedures.  Ugh this is starting to sound like a bunch of privat pilot students who think they are airline pilots because they just soloed. 

I know these type of sky gods because I deal with them all the time.  true I may not get it but that's why I asked!  I fully realize I have much to learn but the ticket in my pocket also says ATP, ME-CFII, with type ratings on the back.  so for those or you who think I am a fool go right ahead!  I was not given those ratings, I earned them and I am going into my 24 year of flying.  I have been around the pattern a few times.   I have paid dues far higher than some on this forum and continue to fly professionally in some very high proformance aircraft.  So Boo Whoo if ya don't like what I have to say!



--------

Low and Slow FireStar II





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372566#372566



         - The Kolb-List   -->             &n========================

russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:54 pm Post subject: "Hypethetically"

MikeAt least he's not winking at you in person!

And at least he's not insulting everyone the way Jetpilot used to.

WTH, we can  stand this.

Russ



On May 7, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Michael Welch wrote:

[quote] 	  Quote: 	
		  Dennis

"This is NOT Kolb-related!"

Russ

	




Russ, 



  I don't think it matters to him.  Several guys have tried, but nothing seems gets through to him.

It's as if he thinks we're all his knitting circle, awaiting on his next little link of amazement.

  Frankly, I'm not sure what bothers me more, his incessant non-Kolb links, or his fascination

with "winking" at everything he posts.  Evidently, he is okay with winking at a forum where 99%

of the readers are men.  Personally, I'd rather be excluded from all the winking, it creeps me out!!

I'm getting a case of the willies just thinking about it.

Mike Welch

 	  Quote: 	
		  



On May 6, 2012, at 8:38 PM, Dennis Thate wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Dennis Thate" <retroman(at)frontier.com (retroman(at)frontier.com)>



[Wink]  



	






href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

russk50(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: "Hypethetically"

Why not just keep things Kolb-related?



On May 7, 2012, at 3:19 PM, FIRESTARII wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 How is this not Kolb related [Shocked] The entire thread was based on a Kolb question? [Crying or Very sad]   frankly I like the little smiley faces   As far as lights and not getting it, not accurate.   The only part I don't get is why all you "Men" are getting your undies in a bunch over a simple question?  I bet a discussion over Sunday morning coffe results in a near fist fight!  the only part I don't get is why so many people think that their way is the only way and that there is only one correct answer for any given situation    I have flown with and worked with people like that my whole life.  they fly like they are sky gods and then when they make a mistake it's never ever their fault.  There is always an excuse,  turbulence, crosswinds or airplane problems.  never once does it occur to them that it may possibly be pilot error and if it does they find a reason to blame somebody else.  It's people like this who get into arguments on the tarmack with guys who don't!

  call every leg in the pattern on a perfect VFR day.   then blame the other guy because he messed up their pattern and they had to go around because he didn't follow local procedures.  Ugh this is starting to sound like a bunch of privat pilot students who think they are airline pilots because they just soloed. 

 I know these type of sky gods because I deal with them all the time.  true I may not get it but that's why I asked!  I fully realize I have much to learn but the ticket in my pocket also says ATP, ME-CFII, with type ratings on the back.  so for those or you who think I am a fool go right ahead!  I was not given those ratings, I earned them and I am going into my 24 year of flying.  I have been around the pattern a few times.   I have paid dues far higher than some on this forum and continue to fly professionally in some very high proformance aircraft.  So Boo Whoo if ya don't like what I have to say!

 

 --------

 Low and Slow FireStar II

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372566#372566

undoctor

Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 212
Location: Bethelhem, PA

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 1:21 pm Post subject: "Hypethetically"

Low and Slot Firestar II,

I was referring to the little winky,  winky link that was a cartoon 

about "grammar police." which was sent by Thate with the Hypothetical 

subject.   It's neither Kolb related nor interesting, and it's not a 

matter if whose "way" it is, it's a matter of the rules of the forum.  

Most of us get that; there have been some who have a problem 

understanding, so relax and unwad your pants.



And his winks creep me out, too.  It's like he's saying, "Aren't I 

cute?" and I stifle myself from responding as I'd like to...



Dave Kulp

Bethlehem, PA

FireFly 11DMK



On 5/7/2012 3:19 PM, FIRESTARII wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 How is this not Kolb related [Shocked] The entire thread was based on a Kolb question? [Crying or Very sad]   frankly I like the little smiley faces   As far as lights and not getting it, not accurate.   The only part I don't get is why all you "Men" are getting your undies in a bunch over a simple question?  I bet a discussion over Sunday morning coffe results in a near fist fight!  the only part I don't get is why so many people think that their way is the only way and that there is only one correct answer for any given situation    I have flown with and worked with people like that my whole life.  they fly like they are sky gods and then when they make a mistake it's never ever their fault.  There is always an excuse,  turbulence, crosswinds or airplane problems.  never once does it occur to them that it may possibly be pilot error and if it does they find a reason to blame somebody else.  It's people like this who get into arguments on the tarmack with guys who don't!

    call every leg in the pattern on a perfect VFR day.   then blame the other guy because he messed up their pattern and they had to go around because he didn't follow local procedures.  Ugh this is starting to sound like a bunch of privat pilot students who think they are airline pilots because they just soloed.

 I know these type of sky gods because I deal with them all the time.  true I may not get it but that's why I asked!  I fully realize I have much to learn but the ticket in my pocket also says ATP, ME-CFII, with type ratings on the back.  so for those or you who think I am a fool go right ahead!  I was not given those ratings, I earned them and I am going into my 24 year of flying.  I have been around the pattern a few times.   I have paid dues far higher than some on this forum and continue to fly professionally in some very high proformance aircraft.  So Boo Whoo if ya don't like what I have to say!



 --------

 Low and Slow FireStar II





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=372566#372566

captainron1(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject: "Hypethetically"

Malcolm;

As another not one of the great speller this far out from the sun, I do find that a spell checker is a great helper in posting on the internet. From what I gather just about every mail program has an embedded spell checker. So the question and suggestion is why not let the computer help you out with it, it will make your communications much better.



Sometimes I think that there are some people that intentionally want to misspell so as to establish their genuineness with the common man. Well it may be cute for a short time, and that's about it.



Not a criticism merely an opinion; worth what you pay for it.



Ron (at) KFXE



do not archive



====================================



---- Malcolm Brubaker <brubakermal(at)yahoo.com> wrote: 



=============

my first kolb was a firestar KXP I bout it from Homer it was one of the Â factory built demo planes all the guys flewÂ her she Â had the 7 rib wing 447Â  and no N number.Â  that was then, NOW most would tell you its not a good idea,Â  but last summerÂ  we sold Dick Rayhills FS11 with no n# 

Â for $7K . CurentlyÂ  you will not find a plane for sale on My web site that has Â no N# contrary to what you mite read about me in resent posts. the hole N# and UL thing will alwase be a topic of great debate.Â Â Â  BTW I will be posting a nice low time MK3 extra with a jab 2200 in a couple days.Â Â Â  



Malcolm & Jeanne Brubaker 

Michigan Sport Pilot Repair  

http://michigansportpilotrepair.com 

LSRM-A, PPC, WS

Great Sails - Sailmaker 

for Ultralight & Light Sport

(989)513-3022 

Â  



 



________________________________

 From: FIRESTARII <CCMFarms(at)aol.com>

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com 

Sent: Sunday, May 6, 2012 5:40 PM

Subject: Re: "Hypethetically"

  




Education is a relative term and is subject to the standards set forth by the judging party.Â  Hence a brain surgeon is well versed on the human brain but would be relatively ignorant in a discussion with a proctologist!Â  Never the less they could have a meaningful discussion about HMO's and frivolous law suits and mutually enjoy the various different prospectives.Â  One might even argue that the brain surgeon and proctologist, both doctors, view the same person from opposite ends!  

The same argument could be made about aviation safety.Â   Is it safe to do a snap roll on take off???Â  The answer is both yes and no, neither one is necessarily correct.Â   If a newbie sport pilot tries it, it is reasonable to call it unsafe however, if Shaun Tucker were to do it nobody would call it unreasonably dangerous or foolish!Â  

Also what exactly is a safe, properly registered EAB airplane any how?Â   Who knows?Â  One FSDO's answer frequently varies quite a lot from another.Â  What makes an EAB airworthy...the DAR and the paper work not necessarily the airplane.Â  My friend has flown some "Certificated" "Real" airplanes that were far less physically airworthy than a non-certificated EAB's.Â  What makes an airplane airworthy???Â  The paper work not the airplane.Â  Is it legal to fly an airplane out of annual, YES.Â  Is it legal to fly an airplane with broken parts, yes!Â  Is it legal to fly through class B airspace without a transponder, YES!Â   Why, because of paperwork, if paperwork is all in order then all these things become not only legal but safe if executed properly.

As for the discussion taking place on a public, open forum....You hit the nail on the head of one of the major, major problems with aviation!Â  If an individual has a question or situation that falls outside of what most consider the norm,Â  who can he or she discuss it with?Â   Most just bury it or hide it or pretend it never happened out of fear of false accusations/assumptions by others.Â   That being the case more often then not, how then as aviators, are we to learn as well as teach others!Â  

I opened this thread for "My friend" because if the question/thought crossed his mind then I find it entirely likely this is not the first time the issue has come up!

Perhaps if we can discuss it for what it is then rather than calling foul...we can all learn a little something and be safer and better educated in the end!!!!!



--------

Low and Slow FireStar II





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http://forums.matronics.coÂ  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List =======

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Ron (at) KFHU

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