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neveyre(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 1:24 pm Post subject: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? |
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Hi All,
As discussed on the phone Dave, here is my take on the subject, not all will agree, but look at the results of the contributors before you decide how to progress ? [ and see how it fares after 5+ years in service ?]
Wash the surface with a hot / strong solution of washing powder [ DAZ / SURF / OMO etc..] as hot as you can stand, don't get the surface too hot, just scrub the hell out of it with a scotchbrite / nail brush and flush it all off with fresh water.
LET IT DRY, Out in the sun or in a hot room for 2 or 3 days.
Scuff sand the surface to get all the shine off, go with the weave direction to get down into the valleys, fold the paper [ 80 grit] to a knife edge to get right in, vac' off all dust. DONT TOUCH IT WITH BARE HANDS FROM NOW ON ! Have a pair of new cotton cloves to hand [ pun not intended !]
Keep the Expancell in a tin [ sweet / biscuit tub ?] and dry out any moisture with a session in a warm oven [ as it is running down from a cooking session.]
DO NOT USE TIME EXPIRED RESIN !
In the UK, we are stuck with Ampreg 21 for structure [ it is cr*p ] but for filling we are not tied to it. If you have Ampreg 21, use it, if you need to buy resin, go with West .
Mix the resin / hardener fully, add the dry Expancell until you don't think you can get any more in [ best to have a helper mixing for you as you get on with the prep' and filling ?] It should be so dry, like bread dough, you will be nearly able to pick it out of the mixing bucket. Make a note of weight of resin to volume of Expancell for future batches.
THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT !!! Mix up a new small batch of resin, and with a short [ cut off to 1/2'' long bristles] brush, scrub the mixed resin onto the surface, just enough to make it damp / sticky, a bit like sellotape.
Dump and force down REALLY HARD the Expancell mix onto the damp surface,with your favourite squeegee, the wet resin on the surface will fuse into the lean Expancell mix, and allow the Expancell to stick to the surface.
If you can get the Expancell mix to stay on a dry surface, the mix is too runny, it will be heavier and harder to sand. If the lean Expancell mix won't stick to a dry surface, [like frozen butter on fresh bread] but does stick to the moistened surface, you have it about right !
Don't piss about with fishing lines / profile gauges / lasers or any other black magic. Whack it on once and thick. Force it down VERY HARD WITH YOUR SQUEEGEE, this will get it into the weave, and get most of the air bubbles out [ later to haunt you as pinholes !] Get it filled too high, try and craft it smooth, but don't drag it about too much as you will pull it off again.
If filled too high ONCE with this lean Expancell, after full cure, a WEEK at 25 + [ no good this time of the year, I fog a black trace coat over it and leave it out in the sun for 2 or 3 days in the summer], it will sand like dense balsa wood. Sand it down gently to profile, try not to overshoot too low.
If you don't fill it high enough in the first place, and you have to re visit the filling procedure, odds are the mix ratio of Expancell / resin will be different, and when you try to blend in the 2nd batch,[ which won't be as well cured as the 1st batch] you will get a ''tide mark ridge'', which may need filling with a third batch, which will give you a double tide mark.......
Other personal views, don't use ANY of the Polyfiber products, don't want to get sued by them, but I wouldn't fill / paint my Dustbin [Garbage can] with them. Their blue s**t filler is much heavier than lean Expancell, doesn't stick as well, burns your skin if any of the sanding dust gets on you, costs more, and if later covered by their paint, it will fall off at worst, or end in micro blisters all over at best !
Stay with Expancell up to profile stage, seal with PPG Barrier Prime, then if you are lazy, you can switch to polyester stopper for the PINHOLES ONLY [Dolphin Glaze by Upol is good], reseal with Barrier Prime before the primer surfacer and Topcoat[UVR] ALL PPG.
Topcoat will not hide any defects, it will highlight them, the surface needs to be perfect before you hit it with Topcoat.
Use 3M products whenever you can, best results per £ / $ [ abrasive papers, masking tape etc...] The 3M ''HOOK - IT'' sanding boards and strips are very usefull.
Pad the bench with pillows / foam to rest the surfaces on,padded weights and / or webbing straps will tame the movement. Make up a heavy 36'' x 5'' x 3'' sanding block from plywood that 80 grit can be stapled to, so you can sand in a +/- 45 action to the span to get the profile without manufacturing ''dips''. Fog a light coat of black aerosol over the Expancell before you start sanding, to give you a guide as to where the highs are, if filled high enough, you will get the correct profile just as the weave starts to show through at the ''high'' areas of the surface ? Take it outside, with your back to the wind when sanding !
Have fun ! [No, there is only so much sanding in any one person, I reached that about 3 planes ago, so I won't anymore! ]
Cheers,
Nev.
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G-ODTW
Joined: 28 Dec 2012
Posts: 22
Location: Meopham, Kent, UK
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jglazener
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 76
Location: Schoonhoven, Netherlands
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| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP |
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Hello Nev,
Very useful information. So useful that it just begs to be expanded into a "Europa Filling for Dummies" instruction. I would happily be your launch customer!
I have yet to start on filling though I can't put it off much longer. The vast amount of strong opinions on the net (mostly contradictory) on how to do this only serve to raise the barrier. Like many Europa tasks that seem daunting at first it will probably seem straightforward looking back. As a novice though I know it would be really useful to have a clear guide, as if someone was standing behind me. If you have time left over from not sanding anymore..
Then a few questions:
- You strongly advise against using expired resin. How expired do you mean? I am sure the stuff does not go off the day after the expiry date, so what would be the shelf life left after that, assuming proper storage?
- Ampreg 21 has to be used for structure in the UK. Does that mean that West (105?) would be allowed in the Netherlands? I have to get new resin anyway for both building and filling so it would be useful if I could just use that.
- How thick is "thick"?
Regards,
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_________________
Jeroen
http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=44165 |
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nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:36 am Post subject: Filling/Painting Classic wings & Tail. SUPERFIL? SP106? |
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Hi Fred,
Yes. I bought a three gallon kit at Sun-n-Fun, used the first gallon,
opened the second tin and discovered a faulty mix (lumpy), took it back
to the SpuerFill agent in the UK, who replaced the whole kit with
another three gallon kit. So in total I have had four gallons.
Mine was a classic with foam wings and I did try the factory filling
technique, though to be honest, did not have a lot of luck with it. If I
had had the benefit of Nev's missive then, I would have persevered
I needed to fill the wings with the least amount of filler (weight and
cost), guarantee the profile and guarantee that both wing profiles were
the same.
I hit on the idea of creating "Template Fences" made from three 2" wide
strips of profiled filler, inboard outboard and centre of each wing
surface, to which I could fill and flatten. I cut three MDF master
aerofoil profiles, one for each station and used these to profile the
fences. With all three fences aligned, this guaranteed the correct
profile over the whole wing and guaranteed that both wings were
identical (not such a problem with the XS wings).
I needed to fill above this reference to give me waste material to cut
back, but I did not want to waste expensive filler, so I stuck on three
or four layers of PVC electrical tape to each fence to raise the
surface. I used a "Dry lining" blade to trowel on the filler and a
heated (to ease spreading) an 8 foot length of extruded "H" section
alloy to level the filler down to the fences.
After a few months curing, I peeled off the electrical tape to reveal
the profile surface and then used a giant home made vacuum "Air Spline"
to gently flatten the surface back until it just touched the reference
fences. In this way, I used (and wasted) the least amount of filler.
I filled both wings, flaps, ailerons rudder and tail surfaces.
Nigel
On 10/01/2013 21:44, Fred Klein wrote:
| Quote: |
On Dec 30, 2012, at 12:50 AM, <nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk>
<nigel_graham(at)m-tecque.co.uk> wrote:
> I too have had great results with SuperFil, though the downside is
> cost.
Nigel...have you kept track of total quantity of SuperFil used?...on
Classic? or XS?...jus curious, Fred
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