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Butt Splice for #4 wire

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johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:40 am Post subject: Butt Splice for #4 wire

I have a #4 wire I need to put a new ring terminal on. It will make a tight reach. I think it will work, but I considered a #4 butt splice - they make 'em. If my new ring terminal makes it too short, my choice is adding a few inches of new #4 with a butt splice, or replacing the entire 5 foot length (which won't be easy to do).

Opinions, please



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 6:55 am Post subject: Butt Splice for #4 wire

At 09:40 AM 4/7/2013, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

<johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>



I have a #4 wire I need to put a new ring terminal on. It will make 

a tight reach. I think it will work, but I considered a #4 butt 

splice - they make 'em. If my new ring terminal makes it too short, 

my choice is adding a few inches of new #4 with a butt splice, or 

replacing the entire 5 foot length (which won't be easy to do).


	


    How much original wire is easily accessible?

    It would be decidedly unhandy to have a splice

    in close proximity to the terminal end. Can you

    cut the original wire back before splicing on

    the extension?



    What kind of #4 wire?

   Bob . . .

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:37 am Post subject: Re: Butt Splice for #4 wire

Bob,

It's #4 welding wire. I have access to about 18" of it before it passes behind the engine to the alternator. I get what you are saying - don't put a butt splice close to the terminal.

I worked on it yesterday and the break was very close to the terminal. I was able to put a new terminal on, losing only an inch or so of wire. I had to make a minor reroute change, but made it fit. My biggest issue was keeping it away from the exhaust pipes. I got it 2" away from the pipes and put a leftover piece of firesleeve on it.



My biggest surprise was how the cable fatigued so fast. Obviously, engine vibration took it's toll.

John

PS: I like your new book being bound, but I still like the ability to remove a page for immediate reference. I keep both copies at the hangar.

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

bbradburry(at)bellsouth.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:48 am Post subject: Butt Splice for #4 wire

John,

Are you saying that engine vibration caused a metal fatigue break in #4 

welding wire while you were flying off your Phase 1?



Bill B

On 4/8/2013 9:37 AM, johngoodman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bob,

 It's #4 welding wire. I have access to about 18" of it before it passes behind the engine to the alternator. I get what you are saying - don't put a butt splice close to the terminal.

 I worked on it yesterday and the break was very close to the terminal. I was able to put a new terminal on, losing only an inch or so of wire. I had to make a minor reroute change, but made it fit. My biggest issue was keeping it away from the exhaust pipes. I got it 2" away from the pipes and put a leftover piece of firesleeve on it.



 My biggest surprise was how the cable fatigued so fast. Obviously, engine vibration took it's toll.

 John

 PS: I like your new book being bound, but I still like the ability to remove a page for immediate reference. I keep both copies at the hangar.



 --------

 #40572 Phase One complete and flying.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=398134#398134

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Butt Splice for #4 wire

[quote="bbradburry(at)bellsouth.n"]John,

Are you saying that engine vibration caused a metal fatigue break in #4 

welding wire while you were flying off your Phase 1?



Bill B

On 4/8/2013 9:37 AM, johngoodman wrote:

[quote] 



Bill,

No, I've been flying for almost 2 years. The wire was unsupported for the last 7" to 9" and I figure it was like a hand shake that wouldn't stop....

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:13 am Post subject: Butt Splice for #4 wire

At 08:37 AM 4/8/2013, you wrote:


<johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>



Bob,

It's #4 welding wire. I have access to about 18" of it before it 

passes behind the engine to the alternator. I get what you are saying 

- don't put a butt splice close to the terminal.

I worked on it yesterday and the break was very close to the 

terminal. I was able to put a new terminal on, losing only an inch or 

so of wire. I had to make a minor reroute change, but made it fit. My 

biggest issue was keeping it away from the exhaust pipes. I got it 2" 

away from the pipes and put a leftover piece of firesleeve on it.



My biggest surprise was how the cable fatigued so fast. Obviously, 

engine vibration took it's toll.



   Did you put heat-shrink over the wire-grip and

   wire? More specifically, double-walled

   heatshrink . . . very stiff?



   Whether crimped or soldered, stranded wires

   experience a stress concentration at the

   transition point from solid to stranded. When

   we sold terminal kits for installation

   by soldering



http://tinyurl.com/ct36xen



   the kit included a 2" piece of double-wall

   heatshrink to provide insulation support.



John

PS: I like your new book being bound, but I still like the ability to 

remove a page for immediate reference. I keep both copies at the hangar.



   Many builders have expressed a preference for

   the 3-ring format. You can take your bound book

   to a copy/print shop like Kinkos and have it

   drilled for ring binder. They also have a paper

   cutter that will shear off the spine.



   Cut the spine off first so that the drilled

   holes have the right edge margins.



   Do you still have the terminal that broke off?

   I'd like to have it if you could see fit to

   mail it to me.

   Bob . . .

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Butt Splice for #4 wire

 	  Quote: 	
		  Did you put heat-shrink over the wire-grip and 

wire? More specifically, double-walled 

heatshrink . . . very stiff? 



Whether crimped or soldered, stranded wires 

experience a stress concentration at the 

transition point from solid to stranded. When 

we sold terminal kits for installation 

by soldering 



http://tinyurl.com/ct36xen 



the kit included a 2" piece of double-wall 

heatshrink to provide insulation support. 

	




Bob,

I'm pretty sure it's regular heatshrink, although I have a couple of pieces of the double-wall stuff laying around.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Do you still have the terminal that broke off? 

I'd like to have it if you could see fit to 

mail it to me. 	




Bob,

Yes, I do still have it. My e-mail is johngoodmanATearthlink.net

Send an address, and I'll mail it. The fatigue point is very close to the terminal.



John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:34 pm Post subject: Butt Splice for #4 wire

John,

Did I miss it - I am sorry, but can you explain how you discovered the

problem? Was it complete disconnect? Was the break on the alternator end or

firewall end?

Thanks

Chris Lucas

N919AR

40072



--

johngoodman

Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 530
Location: GA

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:49 am Post subject: Re: Butt Splice for #4 wire

 	  toaster73(at)embarqmail.c wrote: 	
		  John,

Did I miss it - I am sorry, but can you explain how you discovered the

problem? Was it complete disconnect? Was the break on the alternator end or

firewall end?

Thanks

Chris Lucas

N919AR

40072



-- 	




The break was on the starter power lug. I have two wires on that lug - a #2 from the rear battery, and a #4 that goes around the engine to the lug on an ANL type fuse connected to the alternator - that's how the battery recharges.

A couple of flights ago I noticed that I only had about 12V on the battery after start, but my backup battery was fine. I figured the battery was beginning to fail, or there was some kind of grounded lead. I was getting large amp draws during start, so I figured that it had something to do with the starter/solenoid. I pulled the cowling and concentrated on the positive lead on the solenoid, but the big cables were getting in my way. I decided to remove them to get more room.

The #4 looked fine as I removed the nut, but as soon as a pulled it off the lug, the terminal was only hanging on by a couple of thin wires and a small piece of the heatshrink. The only thing that had been keeping it together was the heatshrink and the natural propensity of the wire to stay in place.

My only explanation is that the 7", or so, of cable between the terminal end and the first adel clamp, had enough weight and motion to respond to vibrations, and eventually fatigue the cable.

Hope this explains it.

John

_________________
#40572 Phase One complete in 2011

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:29 pm Post subject: Butt Splice for #4 wire

At 07:49 AM 4/9/2013, you wrote:

 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "johngoodman" <johngoodman(at)earthlink.net>



 >The #4 looked fine as I removed the nut, but as soon as a pulled it

 >off the lug, the terminal was only hanging on by a couple of thin

 >wires and a small >piece of the heatshrink. The only thing that had

 >been keeping it together was the heatshrink and the natural

 >propensity of the wire to stay in place.



 >My only explanation is that the 7", or so, of cable between the terminal

 >end and the first adel clamp, had enough weight and motion to respond

 >to vibrations, and eventually fatigue the cable.



 John sent me the carcass and we've had a chance to

 peek inside the failure . . .



 

 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20130417192013.04c572e0(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img] 



 95% of the strands failed right outside the crimp . . . a

 telltale for insufficient insulation support like that offered by

 PIDG style terminals.



 A cross-section of the wire grip . . . 



 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20130417192013.04c572e0(at)aeroelectric.com.1[/img] 



 

 . . . showed good crush . . . no voids. I'm pretty sure that

 a piece of that extra stiff, two-walled heat-shrink over this assembly

 would have produced a better story.



 

   Bob . . .

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