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Immersion suits?

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clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:28 am Post subject: Immersion suits?

Fellow Europa flyers,



Am planning a trip up to the Shetland Isles 6-14th July for which some of the transits (longest perhaps 30mins) are over water.  Thinking about ditching and surviveability, can anyone recommend or advise on the hire or loan of immersion suits - as I'd rather not buy for this one trip.  My first over water stretch is from Banff to Wick (departure Fishburn) and the second and subsequent is Wick to Kirkwall, Sumburgh and various other leg sections up to Baltasound airport on Unst - and back of course.  Have new (and registered) PLB, and lifejackets.  Also, if anyone knows, what might the additional weight of two immersions suits be?  



All advice/comments/tips based upon experience, welcome. 



Clive Sutton G-TAGR

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graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:05 pm Post subject: Re: Immersion suits?

I brought two crewsaver ones last year with the cross front zip waist to shoulder. The wife couldn't bear to have hers on, so that went back. Never tried mine except  in the pool - I imagine it could be very warm if the sun was out, also would need some shoes that would cover the rubber feet ends. Since I brought them I read DJ's articles and wondered if a dinghy wouldn't have been a better investment. I shopped around and paid around £230 I think. He mentioned a cheaper fishing suit arrangement if I recal.



what size are you? I am 5ft 10 12.5 stone, mr medium.

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_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:52 pm Post subject: Immersion suits?

Clive, I would certainly opt to borrow or hire a dinghy 

rather than suits - you can then be comfortable flying. 

The water temp around N of Scotland is currently in 10 to 

12C region which is not cold enough to be incapacitating 

if you get wet. It is all pretty remote up there and I 

would fancy my chances quite a bit more with a dinghy,(in 

which you could expect to survive 3 days or more) rather 

than suits in which you might survive a couple of hours or 

so, assuming the plane sank(which it almost certainly 

won't) and assuming you were not picked up very quickly 

(possible, but with PLB and the sense to give them your 

GPS position on the way down, hopefully not too likely). I 

would offer you mine but am clinging to the hope that I 

might get the weather to try a bit of Dawn to Dusk action 

one or other of the two weekends you plan to be away, and 

if so I might well be passing overhead! Regards, David 

Joyce, G- XSDJ



On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 11:28:30 -0700

  "gtagr" <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

<clive.maf(at)googlemail.com>

 

Fellow Europa flyers,

 

 Am planning a trip up to the Shetland Isles 6-14th July 

for which some of the transits (longest perhaps 30mins) 

are over water.  Thinking about ditching and 

surviveability, can anyone recommend or advise on the 

hire or loan of immersion suits - as I'd rather not buy 

for this one trip.  My first over water stretch is from 

Banff to Wick (departure Fishburn) and the second and 

subsequent is Wick to Kirkwall, Sumburgh and various 

other leg sections up to Baltasound airport on Unst - and 

back of course.  Have new (and registered) PLB, and 

lifejackets.  Also, if anyone knows, what might the 

additional weight of two immersions suits be?  

 

 All advice/comments/tips based upon experience, welcome. 

 

 Clive Sutton G-TAGR

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403573#403573

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Un/Subscription,

Forums!

Admin.

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kpeng

Joined: 01 Apr 2011
Posts: 18

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:37 pm Post subject: Immersion suits?

Hi Guys,

              Clive.    10 years ago I toured  in my own plane with several aviators a lot wiser than I to Majorca/ Ibiza /Espana .  A great mentor to me at the time was Tony  ( RESECT )Smyth. He took his prized Europa to South Africa  just for fun .   We were dining one night and Tony gave us all a presentation of his experience  of a sea ditching survival course he had done.....WELL  we laughted our heads off as this was done in a swimming pool.  He and his fellow pupils found it nigh on Impossible( and Tony had the great build ) to get into the wet slippery dingy LOL.  I think that if you are not 30ish and super fit and trained to survive, don't think ( how old are you ? ) that if you have the gear you will live !!.....  The risk is yours

             Take care

                              Kevin

to get into the bright new dingy  

Sent from my iPad

On 28 Jun 2013, at 23:56, "David Joyce" <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Clive, I would certainly opt to borrow or hire a dinghy rather than suits - you can then be comfortable flying. The water temp around N of Scotland is currently in 10 to 12C region which is not cold enough to be incapacitating if you get wet. It is all pretty remote up there and I would fancy my chances quite a bit more with a dinghy,(in which you could expect to survive 3 days or more) rather than suits in which you might survive a couple of hours or so, assuming the plane sank(which it almost certainly won't) and assuming you were not picked up very quickly (possible, but with PLB and the sense to give them your GPS position on the way down, hopefully not too likely). I would offer you mine but am clinging to the hope that I might get the weather to try a bit of Dawn to Dusk action one or other of the two weekends you plan to be away, and if so I might well be passing overhead! Regards, David Joyce, G- XSDJ

 On Fri, 28 Jun 2013 11:28:30 -0700

 "gtagr" <clive.maf(at)googlemail.com> wrote:

> 

> Fellow Europa flyers,

> Am planning a trip up to the Shetland Isles 6-14th July for which some of the transits (longest perhaps 30mins) are over water.  Thinking about ditching and surviveability, can anyone recommend or advise on the hire or loan of immersion suits - as I'd rather not buy for this one trip.  My first over water stretch is from Banff to Wick (departure Fishburn) and the second and subsequent is Wick to Kirkwall, Sumburgh and various other leg sections up to Baltasound airport on Unst - and back of course.  Have new (and registered) PLB, and lifejackets.  Also, if anyone knows, what might the additional weight of two immersions suits be?  All advice/comments/tips based upon experience, welcome. Clive Sutton G-TAGR

> Read this topic online here:

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=403573#403573

> Un/Subscription,

> Forums!

> Admin.

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clivesutton

Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH

Posted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:39 pm Post subject: Re: Immersion suits?

All,



Thanks for the replies and views.



Ex work colleague Mark Albery (of recent Atlantic crossing fame) has kindly offered to lend me his 2-place dinghy, which in light of David's comments seems the better option, especially as its apparently just 5kg.  My Europa has foam wings, I have sensible buoyancy aids, a PLB and will be taking as high a point-to-point overland route as possible.  Mark advises that SEMS Aerosafe of Basildon hies out survival gear at sensible prices (e.g. £40/wk for a raft), see: https://www.aerosafe.co.uk/acatalog/HIRE.html



Clive, G-TAGR

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frans(at)privatepilots.nl
Guest

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:50 am Post subject: Immersion suits?

On 06/29/2013 02:36 AM, Kevin Kedward wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   He and his fellow pupils

 found it nigh on Impossible( and Tony had the great build ) to get

 into the wet slippery dingy LOL.


	


Yep, I heard that too. There is a test somewhere on the internet where

they have tested a lot of dingies and it seems that even in a swimming

pool the majority of the people fail to board it. Let alone when there

are waves, you are somewhat injured due to the ditching, the water is

freezing cold, and you are wearing shoes and other restricting clothes.

I have a dingy, this was one of the models tested, and it is a model

without ladder ("stairs"?), like all lighter weight models, and nearly

impossible to board. It also doesn't have an anchor (again, most smaller

dingies don't have it) and this simply means that it will be blown by

the wind faster than you can swim. So, if you let it go for just a

moment while trying to board it, it will take off and leaving you

exhausted, and distract and confuse the rescue team.



Guess what, in the recent north cape trip, with quite a few water

crossings, I left the dingy home. It saves 7 kilo's. And I didn't know

where to put it anyway, without risk of having it either flying through

the cockpit (the deceleration when ditching seems to be enormous) or

stowed it securely away making it hard to retrieve it when needed from a

possibly sinking or inverted airplane.



For sale: Dingy. Never used. 7 kilos. 4-6 persons. In new condition.



Frans

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graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:49 am Post subject: Re: Immersion suits?

I can understand the dinghy thingy for a c172 or PA28 but for a classic mono wouldn't it be better to sit in it and in this case wouldn't the unimersed dry suit be the best clothing? 

In general there will always be a series of unfortunate events and mitigations are about reducing risk not removing. Sure you may be injured, there may be huge waves and high winds it might take 3 days to be found 

And be dark;  but there again it might be flat calm. Just because the mitigation doesn't remove all risks doesnt mean its not worth having. A suit will certainly help against sudden cold immersion' which I know from dinghys can make it hard to breathe and sap energy to climb into anything. 

I think DJ discussed the dinghy blowing away in his article.

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