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Training Firestar

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funnyb0nz

Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 15

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:09 am Post subject: Training Firestar

Next weekend I should be picking up a firestar. I need to know whom I could contact for training. This plan is N numbered. I do have a sport pilots license with Powered Parachute endorsement, and Gyro. So need to know what endorsement I need for the Kolb so that I am flying legally. 

I have seen a lot of Kolb posted on barnstormers that don't make FAR 103, but people listing them as such. My goal is to have fun, do it safe and legal. I am located near Toledo, OH (Michigan/Ohio line). 

Also is this the main forum people tend to check it with Kolb?



Thanks!

byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:44 pm Post subject: Training Firestar

this should be the right place for kolb information,,,,  but lately the list 

has been slow.   to fly legally with a N number tail dragger,   you will 

have to add a tail wheel endorsement  in your log book from your local CFI. 

now for the SAFE  part,,,  every one is different in their experience,,,, 

but the general consensus is you should have some IN TYPE  training.  how 

much may depend on what you have been flying and how fast you catch on



boyd young

mkiii  utah



--

herbgh(at)nctc.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:54 pm Post subject: Training Firestar

Boyd,Dan

   There in lies the problem..."in type"... I know of no one, in recent 

years, who does it..?  Travis and Bryan may know...?  Herb





On 08/31/2013 09:44 PM, b young wrote:

[quote] 



 this should be the right place for kolb information,,,,  but lately 

 the list has been slow.   to fly legally with a N number tail 

 dragger,   you will have to add a tail wheel endorsement  in your log 

 book from your local CFI. now for the SAFE  part,,, every one is 

 different in their experience,,,, but the general consensus is you 

 should have some IN TYPE  training.  how much may depend on what you 

 have been flying and how fast you catch on



 boyd young

 mkiii  utah



 --

funnyb0nz

Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 15

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:34 am Post subject: Re: Training Firestar

Well thanks for the info. I did a search for taildraggers CFI, and came up with this site.

http://taildraggersinc.com/category/cfi/oh/#.UiNPuq_D_DA



Looks like I may have someone that is 3.5 hours away. So not too bad I guess. I will be making a phone call on Tuesday. If anyone knows of anyone that is closer to Toledo, OH please let me know. I take it that taildraggers is dying breed? Or is everyone just flying Far103 or illegally now?

pcarillonsr(at)neo.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:21 am Post subject: Training Firestar

On 9/1/2013 10:34 AM, funnyb0nz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Well thanks for the info. I did a search for taildraggers CFI, and came up with this site.

 http://taildraggersinc.com/category/cfi/oh/#.UiNPuq_D_DA



 Looks like I may have someone that is 3.5 hours away. So not too bad I guess. I will be making a phone call on Tuesday. If anyone knows of anyone that is closer to Toledo, OH please let me know. I take it that taildraggers is dying breed? Or is everyone just flying Far103 or illegally now?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407848#407848



 Check out Skypark  15G, 5 miles east of Wadsworth, about an hour closer.   (Check out flyskypark.com)   They have two taildrager instructors that I know of.  Also a cessna 140 to rent. The catch is in type.

       Jack carillon,  FS II Akron oh.
	


 	  Quote:

pcarillonsr(at)neo.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:39 am Post subject: Training Firestar

On 9/1/2013 11:21 AM, Jack wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 On 9/1/2013 10:34 AM, funnyb0nz wrote:

> 

>

> Well thanks for the info. I did a search for taildraggers CFI, and 

> came up with this site.

> http://taildraggersinc.com/category/cfi/oh/#.UiNPuq_D_DA

>

> Looks like I may have someone that is 3.5 hours away. So not too bad 

> I guess. I will be making a phone call on Tuesday. If anyone knows of 

> anyone that is closer to Toledo, OH please let me know. I take it 

> that taildraggers is dying breed? Or is everyone just flying Far103 

> or illegally now?

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=407848#407848

>

> Check out Skypark  15G, 5 miles east of Wadsworth, about an hour 

> closer.   (Check out flyskypark.com)   They have two taildrager 

> instructors that I know of.  Also a cessna 140 to rent. The catch is 

> in type.

       Jack carillon,  FS II Akron oh.

>

 Correction To my post  last. 

        Should have read 5 west of Wadsworth.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Jack

pc.king(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:14 pm Post subject: Training Firestar

Tony,



I'm glad that you see Assata's agendas. Remember when Matt told you that he 

wants you grading and on the floor, not breaking down the truck. In his 

terms he shouldn't have had to tell you that. But you don't have the 

cultural background of having come up therough the ranks for 20 years. 

Assata was OK with that until Kara went to her with a litany of stacker 

complaints that you weren't helping them. Then Assata wanted you to get 

along with the staff.



Now she checks your work every day before you clock out and gives you more 

stacker work to do.



Assata wants you to see yourself as a super stacker in her store, and not as 

a PM elsewhere. She doesn't want you to quit. She doesn't want you to step 

down. She just doesn't want you to leave her store. You make her look good.



Matt is sending a very different message. And it wasn't to you. He checked 

out Produce and only found a crooked sign, too many flower boxes in the 

cooler, clutter in the back room and a sticking fire door. Of those, the 

clutter and door were on her, not you. He was telling her that the Produce 

department was fine while she had some building issues to take care of. That 

could be a counter to her complaints that you weren't ready for a 

department.



Lots of agendas out  there.



Peter



---

funnyb0nz

Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 15

Posted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 7:05 pm Post subject: Re: Training Firestar

Well I started my training at Red Stewart Airfield in Waynesville, OH in a champ. Cost for plane with fuel and instructor is close to 100. Per hour. My question is how different will the Kolb be to fly than the champ? Wish I knew someone near me with a 2seater Kolb to take me up. So how did the majority of you train or transition to the Kolb?

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:39 am Post subject: Training Firestar

So how did the majority of you train or transition to the Kolb?>>



Short answer. Carefully!



You will get plenty of advice from the list but the main thing to remember 

is that because of the low weight of the Firestar THERE IS LITTLE INERTIA.



    When you close the throttle the plane will almost stop. Therefore when 

you ease the throttle closed be ready to maintain flying speed by getting 

your nose down. When you close the throttle on the approach or at the flare 

be within inches of the ground, Not feet.



You have a lot of fun to come.



Happy Days



Pat..

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 3:35 am Post subject: Re: Training Firestar

Pat is correct about low inertia being the big difference. That said, the Champ is a pretty good airplane to train in for flying a Kolb. However, the Champ with instructor and pilot weighs a good bit more than a Kolb solo. One big difference in the Kolbs and a Champ, also due to the weight difference, is the acceleration during take-off roll. In a Kolb, going easy on throttle changes, both increasing and decreasing, is important and will become very natural to you in short order.



My private pilot flight training was in 1966 in a Cessna 150, $7/hr wet for the airplane and $4/hr for the instructor. Got my tailwheel training shortly afterwards in a PA-11. For a long time pilot who has flown pre-war designed airplanes, the transition to a Kolb is easy. For newbies, just be careful with the throttle and keep your airspeed where it belongs, as Pat said.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Larlaeb

Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 75
Location: League City, Texas United States

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Training Firestar

I was in something of the same boat, moving from GA aircraft to the Kolb MKIII I had purchased although I'm sure the Firestar is a little different from what I have.  I could not find anyone who could give me instruction in the Kolb so I was forced to train myself to make the transition.   I read everything I could find here and elsewhere on flying and landing the Kolb and what the differences were.  As has been stated here many times, the Kolb is a pretty easy and forgiving airplane to fly and land but it IS different and as has also already been mentioned, that difference is primarily one of low weight and high drag meaning that the Kolb will slow down very fast once the power is pulled off.  This means you cannot flair high and allow the plane to settle, you must flair very close to the ground.  Don't expect ground effect to help you much.  I'm sure it's there but practicing approach stalls at altitude I can't tell much difference in the time I have after leveling off before stall there and when I'm next to the ground.   Although I've been accused of making a mountain out of a molehill, here is how I did it:



1.  Sit in the airplane where you can see down the runway, not just once but several times to get a good feel for how high it sits and the perspective you have.

2.  Taxi the airplane.  Slowly at first and then when you feel good about it, fast enough to raise the tail and hold the plane on the ground.  I did this for a couple  of hours  over several days until I felt I had the controls down well and could 'feel' the plane.

3.  I did about 10 landings in a Cub the day before I flew the Kolb for the first time, mainly as a confidence builder.

4.  Pick a good day with no wind or low wind down the runway.  Check everything, go carefully, have a plan of what you are going to do.  

5.  I took off and climbed to 2500ft, staying close to the Airport and practiced maneuvering the plane.  Doing some turns, checking behavior and different power settings.   Practiced doing approach angles and holding approach speed.  I practiced a couple of landing approaches  leveling off  at 1000' seeing how that felt. 

6.  I suggest leaving a little power on for your first few landings.  This will make the plane act a little more like a GA plane in terms of momentum.  I wouldn't use flaps (if you have them) until later either.  

7. Land the plane, if the approach doesn't look right, go around. Watch airspeed, a little too much speed is better than too little, it will go away fast.



Most of this is probably obvious and I'm sure there are other methods but I'm still alive and have around 250 landings in my Kolb so far this year, knock on wood.   Hope that helps.



Thanks,

Allan

Kolb MKIII

N308JB

james.vanlaak(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:10 am Post subject: Training Firestar

I would add that these planes sit so flat they do not want to be stalled onto the ground.  If you do a full stall landing the main gear will be a foot in the air and hit hard.  Instead, fly them on like a sailplane and you will get a very nice landing.  Start with a good approach speed for your airplane, hold a little power, and fly it on and it is as easy as pie.  Then when you are comfortable with that you should do some power off as practice for a potential engine failure some day.

 



On Wed, Sep 25, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Larlaeb <larlaeb(at)gmail.com (larlaeb(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Larlaeb" <larlaeb(at)gmail.com (larlaeb(at)gmail.com)>

 

 I was in something of the same boat, moving from GA aircraft to the Kolb MKIII I had purchased although I'm sure the Firestar is a little different from what I have.  I could not find anyone who could give me instruction in the Kolb so I was forced to train myself to make the transition.   I read everything I could find here and elsewhere on flying and landing the Kolb and what the differences were.  As has been stated here many times, the Kolb is a pretty easy and forgiving airplane to fly and land but it IS different and as has also already been mentioned, that difference is primarily one of low weight and drag meaning that the Kolb will slow down very fast once the power is pulled off.  This means you cannot flair high and allow the plane to settle, you must flair very close to the ground.  Don't expect ground effect to help you much.  I'm sure it's there but practicing approach stalls at altitude I can't tell much difference in the time I have after leveling off before s!

   tall there and when I'm next to the ground.   Although I've been accused of making a mountain out of a molehill, here is how I did it:

 

 1.  Sit in the airplane where you can see down the runway, not just once but several times to get a good feel for how high it sits and the perspective you have.

 2.  Taxi the airplane.  Slowly at first and then when you feel good about it, fast enough to raise the tail and hold the plane on the ground.  I did this for a couple  of hours  over several days until I felt I had the controls down well and could 'feel' the plane.

  3.  I did about 10 landings in a Cub the day before I flew the Kolb for the first time, mainly as a confidence builder.

 4.  Pick a good day with no wind or low wind down the runway.  Check everything, go carefully, have a plan of what you are going to do.

 5.  I took off and climbed to 2500ft, staying close to the Airport and practiced maneuvering the plane.  Doing some turns, checking behavior and different power settings.   Practiced doing approach angles and holding approach speed.  I practiced a couple of landing approaches  leveling off  at 1000' seeing how that felt.

  6.  I suggest leaving a little power on for your first few landings.  This will make the plane act a little more like a GA plane in terms of momentum.  I wouldn't use flaps (if you have them) until later either.

 7. Land the plane, if the approach doesn't look right, go around. Watch airspeed, a little too much speed is better than too little, it will go away fast.

 

 Most of this is probably obvious and I'm sure there are other methods but I'm still alive and have around 250 landings in my Kolb so far this year, knock on wood.   Hope that helps.

 

 Thanks,

 Allan

 Kolb MKIII

 N308JB

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409198#409198

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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 [b]

koxxy

Joined: 19 Oct 2011
Posts: 28
Location: Beaverton, OR

Posted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 11:27 am Post subject: Training Firestar

I decided to build an Earthstar eGull 2000, but am still lurking on this interesting forum. The purchase agreement with Mark Beierle includes 2 hours of transition training in his Odyssey, as well as him doing the first flight in my plane (which means, he will check it out extra carefully!). I will have to cover the cost for him to fly his Odyssey up to Oregon from his home base near San Luis Obispo. Before then, I plan to regain my "air legs" in a small rental here.

  

It makes business sense for kit providers to do everything they can to avoid the bad press resulting from customers crashing on their first flight - even if it is caused by pilot error. Mark's willingness to put this into the contract also helped convince me that I was buying a well-proven kit from a reputable company.

 

On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 8:05 PM, funnyb0nz <dan_eshman(at)hotmail.com (dan_eshman(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

 [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "funnyb0nz" <dan_eshman(at)hotmail.com (dan_eshman(at)hotmail.com)>

  

 Well I started my training at Red Stewart Airfield in Waynesville, OH in a champ. Cost for plane with fuel and instructor is close to 100. Per hour. My question is how different will the Kolb be to fly than the champ? Wish I knew someone near me with a 2seater Kolb to take me up. So how did the majority of you train or transition to the Kolb?

  

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=409166#409166

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

 ===========

 http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 le, List Admin.

 ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

funnyb0nz

Joined: 31 Aug 2013
Posts: 15

Posted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Training Firestar

Thanks for the advice guys. The training in champ, we are pretty much bring the throttle all the way down before landing. In ppc and gyro usually use a little bit of power to land unless doing engine out scenarios.so good to know with the Kolb that I will need to have a little power before landing. Looks like a few more lessons I will have the endorsement.

They are teaching me slips which is cool but man feels like your going to crash. Guess I gotta get used to it, I gotta say anyone looking for training in Ohio or northern Kentucky go to red Stewart in Waynesville oh. Great people and you cant beat their rates.

Rex Rodebush

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri

Posted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:51 pm Post subject: Re: Training Firestar

I had a few flights with Red in a J3 in 1986.  He was quite a character!  I think he retired from instructing a year or two later.

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