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BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 1:21 pm Post subject: Auto Fuel

Guys



I have been using Marine fuel ( automotive boosted to 92 octane ) for years and boosting it to 93 octane. 



I just read an item from Jabiru USA that says 91 octane is O.K.



Check it out.



[url=http://www.usjabiru.com/JabiruEngines_D0PT.html][/url]http://www.usjabiru.com/JabiruEngines_D0PT.html



I was very careful adapting from 100 LL to the 93 octane marine fuel by putting the 93 in one tank and taking off on the other with 100LL. Loading the engine gradually to make sure it was not detonating. I was wondering if any one has been using 91 Octane NON ethanol auto fuel with good results. I used 93 Octane ethanol for a while but got concerned about how long it would stay in the tank before breaking down or collecting water. I have had bad experiences with ethanol in lawn equipment that is not used regularly and do not use it any more.



Bobby  ( age 76 )

Zodiac 601 XL "B"

Jabiru  3300  S/N  1141

Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop

Bing Carb 260 Main & 290 Needle Jet

Status - Flying  217 hrs.



 [quote][b]

wb2ssj(at)rochester.rr.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:18 pm Post subject: Auto Fuel

I have used 91 octane non ethanol for 12 years now and have it both in my 6 cylinder lightning and my 4 cylinder jabiru 0 problems.Tex



Sent on a Virgin Mobile Samsung Galaxy SÂ® III


<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net </div><div>Date:07/03/2014  5:20 PM  (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: "Server, JabiruEngine-List Digest" <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com> </div><div>Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Auto Fuel </div><div>

</div>Guys

I have been using Marine fuel ( automotive boosted to 92 octane ) for years and boosting it to 93 octane. 

I just read an item from Jabiru USA that says 91 octane is O.K.

Check it out.


http://www.usjabiru.com/JabiruEngines_D0PT.html


I was very careful adapting from 100 LL to the 93 octane marine fuel by putting the 93 in one tank and taking off on the other with 100LL. Loading the engine gradually to make sure it was not detonating. I was wondering if any one has been using 91 Octane NON ethanol auto fuel with good results. I used 93 Octane ethanol for a while but got concerned about how long it would stay in the tank before breaking down or collecting water. I have had bad experiences with ethanol in lawn equipment that is not used regularly and do not use it any more.


Bobby  ( age 76 )

Zodiac 601 XL "B"

Jabiru  3300  S/N  1141

Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop

Bing Carb 260 Main & 290 Needle Jet

Status - Flying  217 hrs.

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:23 pm Post subject: Auto Fuel

Bobby:

 There is a huge amount of information on running MoGas Vs AvGas.  MoGas wins hands down.

The limiting factor for the octane rating is the compression ratio of the engine.  Cars have compression ratios in the range of 8.5:1 to 12:1.  And they all use 92 octane AND that rating is obtained by the (R1+R2)/2 method - WHICH is not as good as using a Knock Engine.  AND - Just think of it all those cars can run on 92 octane!!!  There is NO reason for you to spend the extra money trying to obtain an increase of ONE (1) octane number ESPECIALLY since you have NO way of proving that you are even getting that much!  

 



I have been using 91 octane on a 180+ HP Lycoming O-360 engine for years without a single problem.  Mater of fact...  The spark plugs LQQK GREAT, no lead fouling.  Compression ratio: 9.5:1...  Before Mods, I would guess 10.5:1 but I never did the math.  I also have been running MoGas on an O-320 150+ HP HC for years and can say the same thing...  UNTIL New Jersey went the way of ethanol gas...  Now I switched to AvGas - NOT a DROP of ethanol free gas is available in this lousy Damn-O-Cratic state of NJ!

 



Barry

 



 

On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 5:20 PM,  <BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net (BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

 [quote]Guys



I have been using Marine fuel ( automotive boosted to 92 octane ) for years and boosting it to 93 octane. 

 

I just read an item from Jabiru USA that says 91 octane is O.K.



Check it out.



[url=http://www.usjabiru.com/JabiruEngines_D0PT.html][/url]http://www.usjabiru.com/JabiruEngines_D0PT.html

 

I was very careful adapting from 100 LL to the 93 octane marine fuel by putting the 93 in one tank and taking off on the other with 100LL. Loading the engine gradually to make sure it was not detonating. I was wondering if any one has been using 91 Octane NON ethanol auto fuel with good results. I used 93 Octane ethanol for a while but got concerned about how long it would stay in the tank before breaking down or collecting water. I have had bad experiences with ethanol in lawn equipment that is not used regularly and do not use it any more.

 

Bobby  ( age 76 )

Zodiac 601 XL "B"

Jabiru  3300  S/N  1141

Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop

Bing Carb 260 Main & 290 Needle Jet

Status - Flying  217 hrs.

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

UK Clive

Joined: 17 May 2013
Posts: 27

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:18 am Post subject: Auto Fuel

I tried 91 octane mogas 50-50 with 94 octane mogas in my 2200, ran like a bag of spanners, drained it out and put it in the car and put fresh 94 and she was sweet again. 91 octane is too low for Jabs, certainly in Uk, 91 is for Tiger Moths etc, really low compression, though it can be variable, I know one field that ave switched back to Avgas because of that.

Regards Clive



On 3 Jul 2014, at 23:22, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Bobby:

 There is a huge amount of information on running MoGas Vs AvGas.  MoGas wins hands down.

The limiting factor for the octane rating is the compression ratio of the engine.  Cars have compression ratios in the range of 8.5:1 to 12:1.  And they all use 92 octane AND that rating is obtained by the (R1+R2)/2 method - WHICH is not as good as using a Knock Engine.  AND - Just think of it all those cars can run on 92 octane!!!  There is NO reason for you to spend the extra money trying to obtain an increase of ONE (1) octane number ESPECIALLY since you have NO way of proving that you are even getting that much!  

 



I have been using 91 octane on a 180+ HP Lycoming O-360 engine for years without a single problem.  Mater of fact...  The spark plugs LQQK GREAT, no lead fouling.  Compression ratio: 9.5:1...  Before Mods, I would guess 10.5:1 but I never did the math.  I also have been running MoGas on an O-320 150+ HP HC for years and can say the same thing...  UNTIL New Jersey went the way of ethanol gas...  Now I switched to AvGas - NOT a DROP of ethanol free gas is available in this lousy Damn-O-Cratic state of NJ!

 



Barry

 



 

On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 5:20 PM,  <BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net (BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Guys



I have been using Marine fuel ( automotive boosted to 92 octane ) for years and boosting it to 93 octane. 

 

I just read an item from Jabiru USA that says 91 octane is O.K.



Check it out.



[/url]http://www.usjabiru.com/JabiruEngines_D0PT.html

 

I was very careful adapting from 100 LL to the 93 octane marine fuel by putting the 93 in one tank and taking off on the other with 100LL. Loading the engine gradually to make sure it was not detonating. I was wondering if any one has been using 91 Octane NON ethanol auto fuel with good results. I used 93 Octane ethanol for a while but got concerned about how long it would stay in the tank before breaking down or collecting water. I have had bad experiences with ethanol in lawn equipment that is not used regularly and do not use it any more.

 

Bobby  ( age 76 )

Zodiac 601 XL "B"

Jabiru  3300  S/N  1141

Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop

Bing Carb 260 Main & 290 Needle Jet

Status - Flying  217 hrs.

 

  	  Quote: 	
		  



ist" target="_blank">[url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List]http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	




	


[b]

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:15 am Post subject: Auto Fuel

Clive:

 Tiger Moth (very old plane/engine) and many of the 1970 planes were designed to run on 80 Octane.  That is 6.5:1 compression up to 8.5:1 compression.  BUT!  That is 80 octane as proven/tested by an anti-knock engine.  Not a home-brew mixing of gas, or even the MoGas divide by two (2) method.  The question is: What is the compression ratio of the Jab and is yours equal to that or any higher?  On the O-320 the case halves have been machined down 0.010" each (total of 0.020") so the compression ratio has been increased to above the published 9.5:1 ratio.  

 



Barry

On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 6:17 AM, Clive james <zcrj90(at)yahoo.co.uk (zcrj90(at)yahoo.co.uk)> wrote:

 [quote]I tried 91 octane mogas 50-50 with 94 octane mogas in my 2200, ran like a bag of spanners, drained it out and put it in the car and put fresh 94 and she was sweet again. 91 octane is too low for Jabs, certainly in Uk, 91 is for Tiger Moths etc, really low compression, though it can be variable, I know one field that ave switched back to Avgas because of that.

 Regards Clive

[b]

matronics(at)rtist.nl
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:39 am Post subject: Auto Fuel

Why do you think Jabiru has increased the barrel size over time from     106mm to 106.5, then 107 and now 107.5mm?

     

     On 7/4/2014 1:15 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

     

     [quote]                Clive:

         

         

                    Tiger Moth (very old plane/engine) and many of the 1970 planes           were designed to run on 80 Octane.  That is 6.5:1 compression           up to 8.5:1 compression.  BUT!  That is 80 octane as           proven/tested by an anti-knock engine.  Not a home-brew mixing           of gas, or even the MoGas divide by two (2) method.  The           question is: What is the compression ratio of the Jab and is           yours equal to that or any higher?  On the O-320 the case           halves have been machined down 0.010" each (total of 0.020")           so the compression ratio has been increased to above the           published 9.5:1 ratio.  

         

         

         Barry

         

           

           On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 6:17 AM, Clive             james <zcrj90(at)yahoo.co.uk (zcrj90(at)yahoo.co.uk)>             wrote:

              	  Quote: 	
		                                  I tried 91 octane mogas 50-50 with 94 octane mogas                   in my 2200, ran like a bag of spanners, drained it out                   and put it in the car and put fresh 94 and she was                   sweet again. 91 octane is too low for Jabs, certainly                   in Uk, 91 is for Tiger Moths etc, really low                   compression, though it can be variable, I know one                   field that ave switched back to Avgas because of that.

                 Regards Clive

                                    

                   

                   

                   

                 

               

             

	
     [b]

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:51 am Post subject: Auto Fuel

I don't know!  Did they ever publish the reason why?

 Bigger bore equals:

Lower compression

More volume

 More HP 

Maybe better burning/ignition properties?

Maybe a less expensive set of rings or piston?

 Maybe easier starts

Maybe lower CHT's

 



So, what are the answers?

 Barry





 





On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 7:39 AM, Rob Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl (matronics(at)rtist.nl)> wrote:

 [quote]                   Why do you think Jabiru has increased the barrel size over time from     106mm to 106.5, then 107 and now 107.5mm?

     

     On 7/4/2014 1:15 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                  Clive:

         

         

                    Tiger Moth (very old plane/engine) and many of the 1970 planes           were designed to run on 80 Octane.  That is 6.5:1 compression           up to 8.5:1 compression.  BUT!  That is 80 octane as           proven/tested by an anti-knock engine.  Not a home-brew mixing           of gas, or even the MoGas divide by two (2) method.  The           question is: What is the compression ratio of the Jab and is           yours equal to that or any higher?  On the O-320 the case           halves have been machined down 0.010" each (total of 0.020")           so the compression ratio has been increased to above the           published 9.5:1 ratio.  

         

         

         Barry

         

           

           On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 6:17 AM, Clive             james <zcrj90(at)yahoo.co.uk (zcrj90(at)yahoo.co.uk)>             wrote:

              	  Quote: 	
		                                  I tried 91 octane mogas 50-50 with 94 octane mogas                   in my 2200, ran like a bag of spanners, drained it out                   and put it in the car and put fresh 94 and she was                   sweet again. 91 octane is too low for Jabs, certainly                   in Uk, 91 is for Tiger Moths etc, really low                   compression, though it can be variable, I know one                   field that ave switched back to Avgas because of that.

                 Regards Clive

                                    

                   

                   

                   

                 

               

             

	
     



ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List

tp://forums.matronics.com

_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

Wayne Lenox

Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 75
Location: Arizona in the winter

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:21 pm Post subject: Auto Fuel

On Jul 3, 2014, at 6:17 PM, wb2ssj <wb2ssj(at)rochester.rr.com (wb2ssj(at)rochester.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote]I have used 91 octane non ethanol for 12 years now and have it both in my 6 cylinder lightning and my 4 cylinder jabiru 0 problems.Tex





Sent on a Virgin Mobile Samsung Galaxy SÃ‚Â® III



-------- Original message --------

From: BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net (BobbyPaulk(at)comcast.net) 

Date:07/03/2014  5:20 PM  (GMT-05:00) 

To: "Server, JabiruEngine-List Digest"  

Subject: JabiruEngine-List: Auto Fuel 

Guys



I have been using Marine fuel ( automotive boosted to 92 octane ) for years and boosting it to 93 octane. 



I just read an item from Jabiru USA that says 91 octane is O.K.



Check it out.



[url=http://www.usjabiru.com/JabiruEngines_D0PT.html][/url]http://www.usjabiru.com/JabiruEngines_D0PT.html



I was very careful adapting from 100 LL to the 93 octane marine fuel by putting the 93 in one tank and taking off on the other with 100LL. Loading the engine gradually to make sure it was not detonating. I was wondering if any one has been using 91 Octane NON ethanol auto fuel with good results. I used 93 Octane ethanol for a while but got concerned about how long it would stay in the tank before breaking down or collecting water. I have had bad experiences with ethanol in lawn equipment that is not used regularly and do not use it any more.



Bobby  ( age 76 )

Zodiac 601 XL "B"

Jabiru  3300  S/N  1141

Sensenich 64" x 51" Prop

Bing Carb 260 Main & 290 Needle Jet

Status - Flying  217 hrs.



  	  Quote: 	
		  



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[b]

matronics(at)rtist.nl
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 10:26 pm Post subject: Auto Fuel

Jabiru has not to my knowledge published reasons why, but lower     compression to make it run on poor quality, low octane fuel is an     obvious one. This will be at the expense of HP.

     

     They have made many other changes, and many of them without     providing a reason (or when they did, it didn't always make sense).

     

     On 7/4/2014 1:51 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

     

     [quote]                I           don't know!  Did they ever publish the reason why?

         

         

                    Bigger bore equals:

         Lower           compression

         More           volume

                    More HP 

         Maybe           better burning/ignition properties?

         Maybe           a less expensive set of rings or piston?

         Maybe           easier starts

         Maybe           lower CHT's

                    

         

         So,           what are the answers?

         

         

                    Barry

         

         

         

         

                    

         

       

       

         

         On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 7:39 AM, Rob           Turk <matronics(at)rtist.nl (matronics(at)rtist.nl)>           wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		                Why do you think               Jabiru has increased the barrel size over time from 106mm               to 106.5, then 107 and now 107.5mm?                                

                   

                   On 7/4/2014 1:15 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

                   

                    	  Quote: 	
		                                              Clive:

                       

                       

                        Tiger                         Moth (very old plane/engine) and many of the                         1970 planes were designed to run on 80 Octane.                          That is 6.5:1 compression up to 8.5:1                         compression.  BUT!  That is 80 octane as                         proven/tested by an anti-knock engine.  Not a                         home-brew mixing of gas, or even the MoGas                         divide by two (2) method.  The question is: What                         is the compression ratio of the Jab and is yours                         equal to that or any higher?  On the O-320 the                         case halves have been machined down 0.010" each                         (total of 0.020") so the compression ratio has                         been increased to above the published 9.5:1                         ratio.  

                       

                       

                       Barry

                       

                     

                   	
                 

               

             

           	
         

       

     [b]

dwwilt

Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 192

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:45 am Post subject: Auto Fuel

I could be wrong and I have not researched this, but my very poor memory is telling me that the UK and Australian method of calculating octane is different than the formula used for the US.  I remember that UK octane of 91 is equivalent to our US octane rating of around 93 or 94.  Can anyone verify this?  If this is true then the use of mo-gas 91 in the UK is ok, but not in the US.  In the US we would have to use 93 or 94 octane fuel.  

   

  Me?  I use avgas and don't worry about it.

   

   

    Regards,

   

  Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant

  Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert

  Program and Project Management

  757-784-8113

  N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)

 

 

   

   

  --

_________________
Dennis

rpf(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 4:09 am Post subject: Auto Fuel

I believe it’s the other way around (US rating of 91 is equal to UK rating of 94-95).  Anyway, have been using 91 octane (we have 100LL and 91 mogas at my airport) for 900 hours now with no problems.  It occasionally gets 100LL when I need fuel away from my home airport.  

   

Randy  

     

From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dennis W. Wilt

 Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2014 6:45 AM

 To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Auto Fuel  

  

     

I could be wrong and I have not researched this, but my very poor memory is telling me that the UK and Australian method of calculating octane is different than the formula used for the US.  I remember that UK octane of 91 is equivalent to our US octane rating of around 93 or 94.  Can anyone verify this?  If this is true then the use of mo-gas 91 in the UK is ok, but not in the US.  In the US we would have to use 93 or 94 octane fuel.    

    

   

    

Me?  I use avgas and don't worry about it.  

    

   

    

   

        

Regards,  

    

   

    

Dennis W. Wilt, Aviation Consultant  

    

Communications, Navigation, and Surveillance Subject Matter Expert  

    

Program and Project Management  

    

757-784-8113  

    

N616DW (Arion Lightning S/N 132)  

  

  

    

   

    

   

    

--

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