 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
John Jung
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Surprise, AZ, USA
|
 Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: Choices we make and the downside to our sport |
 |
|
Group,
First, I'll repeat a couple of my upside opinions for a little balance:
An airplane is the greatest toy in the world. Kolbs are fantastic
airplanes. Having friends to share the experience with is even better.
Warning; Stop reading now, if you can't handle the downside.
This is about an accident that I witnessed yesterday and the choices
that were made leading up to it.
Saturday morning, Chuck and I, in our Firestars, flew 80 miles west
over the Arizona dessert, to a Fly-in at Bouse. As soon as I got out of
my plane, the airplane talk started, and I answered questions about
Kolbs and Firestars. While talking, three planes took off. The first
two had very short takeoff runs, helped by about a 10 mph wind down the
runway. The third plane took much longer. It was a Quicksilver Sprint
II, with two on board.
Maybe 5 minutes later, I looked up to see the Sprint quietly descending
a few hundred yards from the runway. It looked like a controlled,
although steep decent. The plane went out of sight just before
touchdown and I saw a flash of color, which made me think that it might
have bounced. Many others also watched and headed over that way, so
they had plenty of help. I decided to eat breakfast. Before, I could
finish, someone came back to call for an ambulance, and to get some
saws and other tools. I walked over to see what was going on. It was
hard to image that it was really serious, because Quicksilvers fly
slow, they were over a mostly open area, and they appeared to be under
control to the ground.
The plane had impacted the base of one of the few trees in the area.
It's like, if you searched the area for the absolute worse place to
land, that was it.
I'm going to skip a lot of details now, except to say that it was like
watching a TV show about paramedics and rescue, except that it was not
acting and I was right there. The passenger was transported by
ambulance to a local hospital and the pilot was transported 100 miles
by helicopter to Phoenix.
Now about choices:
Remember that I said the Quicksilver had a long takeoff run? It was
powered by a 503 and the passenger looked like he weighed maybe 250
pounds. The pilot had made the decision that he wasn't too heavy.
When the engine quit, the plane was 200 feet or less from the ground,
over an area of 10 foot hills, but mostly open. The pilot had made the
choice to fly low over that terrain.
Neither wore a helmet (that I could see). Another choice made.
How could he fail to avoid a tree? I'm not so sure that the pilot could
give a good answer to this question. But that won't stop me from giving
my opinion. One of my two engine outs was in a Quicksilver from 100
feet. Here is what I learned. It happens so fast that it is difficult
to project where you will land. In my case, I landed way short of where
I though I would. I think that the pilot was looking beyond the tree,
not having enough time to realize how fast he was sinking. My guess is
that he had less than 20 seconds from when the engine quit until
impact, maybe only 15 seconds.
The choices that we make every time we fly can make a difference. I
sometimes fly low, although I usually resist the temptation. I do wear
a helmet every time I fly. I do not carry a passenger very often, and
when I do, I try to make all the best choices.
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
biglar
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:53 am Post subject: Choices we make and the downside to our sport |
|
|
And now there's gonna be a lot of shoulda, coulda, woulda, over that'n.
It'd be interesting to talk to the pilot to hear what he says. Too bad it
happened. Lar. Do not Archive.
Still looking over the new format........... 
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
---
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
eagle1(at)commspeed.net
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: Choices we make and the downside to our sport |
|
|
I have always heard that when the fan stops on a Quicksilver, look strait
down because that's where you are going to land.
Az Bald Eagle
Do not archive
---
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JetPilot
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve Boetto
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 364
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:26 pm Post subject: Choices we make and the downside to our sport |
|
|
In a message dated 1/15/2006 8:26:21 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
eagle1(at)commspeed.net writes:
I have always heard that when the fan stops on a Quicksilver, look strait
down because that's where you are going to land.
Az Bald Eagle
About the 3rd tie I flew with E.P. in his Quicksilver on floats I was flying
at about 200 ft over the Key West channel. He asked me not to straddle the
channel markers because if we had an engine out we were screwed. He
demonstrated this to Me later Sans marker. The QS2 goes Straight Down. Its like a
parachute.
Steve B
FF#007
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mark
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 5
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sport |
|
|
I used to have a Weight Shift quick......(25yrs ago) I always landed with the engine off (instructer encouraged that...I might get cut by the prop if it flipped) 
This was a modified slope model,had a 7to1 glide ratio.Seemed more like 4to1. It weighed 130lbs with 1 1/2 gal of fuel,I was 135lbs.
I cant imagine almost the same model,beefed up,same wing area,at 700 lbs flying weight.
Mark in Fl
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
Mark Shimei
Twinstar, 503
Phantom, Kawasaki 440
Weight shift Quick, Chrysler |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
biglar
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457
|
| Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 7:30 pm Post subject: Choices we make and the downside to our sport |
|
|
When I took dual instruction in a QS 2 in Port Angeles, WA about 11 years
ago, we'd make base and final at 300 ft. agl, and the instructor had me wait
till I could see the numbers between my feet, then cut the throttle and keep
the AS indicator at 40 mph. It worked. Not quite straight down, and flare
at the very last second (clamp onto the seat time) and you'd touch down on
the numbers every time. Spooky, but fun, too. Lar.
Do not Archive.
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk III
N78LB Vamoose
www.gogittum.com
---
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose" |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
John Jung
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 108
Location: Surprise, AZ, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Choices we make and the downside to our sport |
|
|
Group,
Seems like we don't want to think about "choices". We would rather convince ourselves that it couldn't happen to us, because Quicksilvers are so different from our Kolbs.
Well, I learned to fly in a two place Quick, and owned two single place Quicks, including a Sprint. IMO they are more similar than different. Even though they have a steep angle of descent, they also climb at twice our angle.
What we do share are the decissions. How much weight should we carry from what length runway? Should we wear helmets? How low should we fly over rugged terrain? Do we carry passengers low and slow?
I suspect that I am wasting my time with this thread.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
_________________
John Jung
Firestar II N6163J
Surprise, AZ |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Steve Garvelink
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 15
Location: HIXSON, TN
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: Choices we make and the downside to our sport |
|
|
In the early 1980's I flew a weight shift quick with a 15 hp Yamaha. I
learned more about flying from that craft than any other I have flown.
It was a blast but it was very unforgiving in the area of landing. You
had to have maximum speed coming over the numbers in order to flair
properly. There was not much range between wide open flight speed and
stall. I suspect that the individual was in a controlled mush that
resulted in an incredible decent into the ground. I could be wrong but
he probably would have been all right had he kept adequate flight speed.
Steve Garvelink
--
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
