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THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

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yakxx21

Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 22

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:59 am Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

My air goes from 6 to 4 in one day but I cannot find out where...changed pop off and the two OUT valves...Main Air tap is OFF...but it still leaks..drives me nuts...sprayed a whole can of soapy everywhere...where could it be leaking....BUT I notice that recently I cannot get off the external connection after pressurizing without being  Tarzan.....ie...I  put in the air and its almost impossible to turn the connector to get it off due to massive pressure....not sure what this means....after 5 mins its possible and then with a real gush of air...but the ext input does not leak...I have sat for a long time looking at 'Spit' ....



any ideas...oh yes..also when I fly it takes about ten minutes to pump up from about 4 to 5   HELP...!!!

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:20 am Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

Yak 52 or CJ6? Very likely you have a bad check valve between the 

external air fill port and the pop off valve/pressure relief valve.  I 

have anovernight test you can do to eliminate some other possibilities.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 1/27/2015 9:59 AM, yakxx21 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My air goes from 6 to 4 in one day but I cannot find out where...changed pop off and the two OUT valves...Main Air tap is OFF...but it still leaks..drives me nuts...sprayed a whole can of soapy everywhere...where could it be leaking....BUT I notice that recently I cannot get off the external connection after pressurizing without being  Tarzan.....ie...I  put in the air and its almost impossible to turn the connector to get it off due to massive pressure....not sure what this means....after 5 mins its possible and then with a real gush of air...but the ext input does not leak...I have sat for a long time looking at 'Spit' ....



 any ideas...oh yes..also when I fly it takes about ten minutes to pump up from about 4 to 5   HELP...!!!





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437698#437698

PS

Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Texas

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:21 am Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

I wonder how much pressure drop you get from the hot air going cold?  That would account for a drop but I don't know how much.  You may want to purchase one of the ultrasonic listening devices to find leaks.  I found mine on eBay and have used it numerous times with success.  Leaky check valves are easily found with this device. 

   

  Phil

   

   

  --

_________________
Phil

yakxx21

Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 22

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:23 am Post subject: Re: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

Thanks Phil....That leak detector is very interesting...but I see they tend to pick up a certain frequency 46khz I think,  given out by a little transmitter...so im not sure which type to get...would you pls tell me which model you have found to do the job of picking up comp air leaks....



thanks

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:29 am Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

Air leak:Check needle and seat in the main air valve, it is std steel and often rusts.Â  We carry a stainless replacement steel needle if needed. Â 

Air won't build:

Check to make sure that compressor is pumping.Â  Rubber glove over intake is best initial check.

Check poppet valve, clean seat and check alu crush washers for leaks.Â  We have a kit that has all the crush washers, poppet spring, and filter if needed.

Check line between compressor and snot valve for cracks/leaks

Check snot valve needle (is std steel) which has a problem with rust on the needle, your compressor may be having trouble overcoming the leak.

Filler bleed back of air most likely is a bad check valve.

Best,

Doug

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 7:59 AM, yakxx21 <ken(at)aeroalgarve.com (ken(at)aeroalgarve.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "yakxx21" <ken(at)aeroalgarve.com (ken(at)aeroalgarve.com)>

 

 My air goes from 6 to 4 in one day but I cannot find out where...changed pop off and the two OUT valves...Main Air tap is OFF...but it still leaks..drives me nuts...sprayed a whole can of soapy everywhere...where could it be leaking....BUT I notice that recently I cannot get off the external connection after pressurizing without beingÂ  Tarzan.....ie...IÂ  put in the air and its almost impossible to turn the connector to get it off due to massive pressure....not sure what this means....after 5 mins its possible and then with a real gush of air...but the ext input does not leak...I have sat for a long time looking at 'Spit' ....

 

 any ideas...oh yes..also when I fly it takes about ten minutes to pump up from about 4 to 5Â  Â HELP...!!!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437698#437698

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

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 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:33 am Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

This is what I use, works well, not problems.Â  The head set is a must.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Amp-probe-ultrasonic-leak-detector-/171656661896?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27f788cb88



Doug

On Tue, Jan 27, 2015 at 11:24 AM, yakxx21 <ken(at)aeroalgarve.com (ken(at)aeroalgarve.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "yakxx21" <ken(at)aeroalgarve.com (ken(at)aeroalgarve.com)>

 

 Thanks Phil....That leak detector is very interesting...but I see they tend to pick up a certain frequency 46khz I think,Â  given out by a little transmitter...so im not sure which type to get...would you pls tell me which model you have found to do the job of picking up comp air leaks....

 

 thanks

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=437719#437719

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 _blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 [b]

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:44 am Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

Ken,

My 2 cents.. and just some other comments.  



1.  Pay attention to what Dennis Savarese says... he has fixed a lot of air leaks.  



2.  An Ultrasonic Leak Detector is a good idea, but ... if you understand every single line, valve, pressure regulator, flow regulator, in the entire system, you can run tests that narrows it down.  Enter Dennis. 



3.  You mentioned your air goes from 6 to 4 in one day.  6 is actually 60 Atmos, which is about 881 PSI (plus or minus) and this system is supposed to be set to 50 Atmos, which is about 735 PSI.  Leaving it set too high can be why you are having a hard time removing the external fill line, simply because you've added about 146 PSI to the recommended pressure.  Fix that ASAP.   It also puts too much pressure on seals in the landing gear systems, etc.  



4.  When you are flying, see if the pressure comes up faster if you leave the landing gear down, then it does when it is up.   If you, you might have a leaking landing gear actuator.  They can leak when up and not down, and vice-versa.  



5.  Read #1 again.      I'm going to stay away from making any further recommendations simply because Dennis knows the 52 better than me.  



Good Luck, 



Mark

--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:45 am Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

I forgot to add Doug Sapp's name.   Also very very good.



Mark

--

yakxx21

Joined: 10 Jun 2012
Posts: 22

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

Thanks for all the good advise...I have sent Dennis a PM....Im sure I will get there..eventually..

cheers



ken



Portugal

PS

Joined: 08 Sep 2006
Posts: 84
Location: Texas

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

I bought an Accutrak with a couple of attachments on eBay for 100.00.  The long steel spike probe is awesome for listening for leaks within check valves. I had a leak under my panel, that was tracked down quickly once I used the Accutrak to find the source. I was hearing a leak coming from the gear extension handle which was tracked back to a damaged shuttle valve in the nose gear actuator. It has been awhile, and memory may be off a bit, but my point is, the problem my be somewhere beside where the sound is emanating. Get to know your system, a map of the system helps tremendously.  

 

  Phil

 

 

  --

_________________
Phil

dantpayne(at)icloud.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

For what it's worth, I've had a "secret weapon" for air leaks for awhile, and I might as well tell the rest of the world...

If you have access to a "freon sniffer", put a little R134 into the system and then charge it up. I guarantee you will be able to find it...those sniffers pick up even the slightest if freon leaks.

Hope that helps someone



Keep 'em Flyin',

Dan "Major" Payne

Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

(423)-544-8946

Yak-52

Yak-50



On Jan 27, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Phillip Salter <psalter(at)aol.com (psalter(at)aol.com)> wrote:

[quote]I bought an Accutrak with a couple of attachments on eBay for 100.00.  The long steel spike probe is awesome for listening for leaks within check valves. I had a leak under my panel, that was tracked down quickly once I used the Accutrak to find the source. I was hearing a leak coming from the gear extension handle which was tracked back to a damaged shuttle valve in the nose gear actuator. It has been awhile, and memory may be off a bit, but my point is, the problem my be somewhere beside where the sound is emanating. Get to know your system, a map of the system helps tremendously.  

 

  Phil

 

 

  --

jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:56 pm Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

I mentioned this years ago, but was told the freon gas plays havoc with the seals... any experience or comments on that?  JB



 



   From: "Dan Payne" <dantpayne(at)icloud.com>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 3:11:32 PM

Subject: Re: Re: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

 



 For what it's worth, I've had a "secret weapon" for air leaks for awhile, and I might as well tell the rest of the world...

 



 If you have access to a "freon sniffer", put a little R134 into the system and then charge it up. I guarantee you will be able to find it...those sniffers pick up even the slightest if freon leaks.

 



 Hope that helps someone

 



Keep 'em Flyin', 

 Dan "Major" Payne

 Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

 (423)-544-8946

 Yak-52

 Yak-50

 



 



 

On Jan 27, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Phillip Salter <psalter(at)aol.com (psalter(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 

 [quote] I bought an Accutrak with a couple of attachments on eBay for 100.00.  The long steel spike probe is awesome for listening for leaks within check valves. I had a leak under my panel, that was tracked down quickly once I used the Accutrak to find the source. I was hearing a leak coming from the gear extension handle which was tracked back to a damaged shuttle valve in the nose gear actuator. It has been awhile, and memory may be off a bit, but my point is, the problem my be somewhere beside where the sound is emanating. Get to know your system, a map of the system helps tremendously.   



 Phil

 --

dantpayne(at)icloud.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:12 pm Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

I have never put more than a "shot" of it in the system, and then completely drained the system after the test. I also will tell you that I use only freon, not that mixed freon/compressor oil crap you buy at auto stores. That may be what you are referring to "eating up the seals".

I, personally, haven't ever experienced any repercussions with the pure freon. 



Keep 'em Flyin',

Dan



On Jan 27, 2015, at 4:56 PM, jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net) wrote:

[quote]I mentioned this years ago, but was told the freon gas plays havoc with the seals... any experience or comments on that?  JB



 



   From: "Dan Payne" <dantpayne(at)icloud.com (dantpayne(at)icloud.com)>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2015 3:11:32 PM

Subject: Re: Re: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

 



 For what it's worth, I've had a "secret weapon" for air leaks for awhile, and I might as well tell the rest of the world...

 



 If you have access to a "freon sniffer", put a little R134 into the system and then charge it up. I guarantee you will be able to find it...those sniffers pick up even the slightest if freon leaks.

 



 Hope that helps someone

 



Keep 'em Flyin', 

 Dan "Major" Payne

 Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

 (423)-544-8946

 Yak-52

 Yak-50

 



 



 

On Jan 27, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Phillip Salter <psalter(at)aol.com (psalter(at)aol.com)> wrote:

 

 [quote] I bought an Accutrak with a couple of attachments on eBay for 100.00.  The long steel spike probe is awesome for listening for leaks within check valves. I had a leak under my panel, that was tracked down quickly once I used the Accutrak to find the source. I was hearing a leak coming from the gear extension handle which was tracked back to a damaged shuttle valve in the nose gear actuator. It has been awhile, and memory may be off a bit, but my point is, the problem my be somewhere beside where the sound is emanating. Get to know your system, a map of the system helps tremendously.   



 Phil

 --

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 3:53 pm Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

REPLY IS WITHIN MARK'S EMAIL IN ALL CAPS.



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 1/27/2015 1:43 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:

[quote] 



 Ken,

 My 2 cents.. and just some other comments.



 1.  Pay attention to what Dennis Savarese says... he has fixed a lot of air leaks.  YOU ARE TOO KIND MARK.



 2.  An Ultrasonic Leak Detector is a good idea, but ... if you understand every single line, valve, pressure regulator, flow regulator, in the entire system, you can run tests that narrows it down.  Enter Dennis.  AGAIN, YOU ARE TOO KIND.



 3.  You mentioned your air goes from 6 to 4 in one day.  6 is actually 60 Atmos, which is about 881 PSI (plus or minus) and this system is supposed to be set to 50 Atmos, which is about 735 PSI.  Leaving it set too high can be why you are having a hard time removing the external fill line THIS WOULD BE NORMAL REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE PRESSURE IS 50 OR 60 ATMS IF HE DOES NOT BLEED THE AIR FILL LINE BEFORE HE ATTEMPTS TO REMOVE THE FITTING.  I BELIEVE MOST SCUBA TANK FITTINGS HAVE A BLEED VALVE ON THEM.  IF NOT USING A SCUBA TANK AND JUST USING A STRAIGHT HOSE TO THE EXTERNAL AIR FILL PORT, LOOSEN THE LARGE NUT ON THE HOSE END THAT GOES TO THE TANK AND BLEED THE LINE.  FIRST MAKE SURE THE VALVE ON THE TANK IS CLOSED THOUGH., simply because you've added about 146 PSI to the recommended pressure.  Fix that ASAP.   It also puts too much pressure on seals in the landing gear systems, etc.



 4.  When you are flying, see if the pressure comes up faster if you leave the landing gear down, then it does when it is up.   If you, you might have a leaking landing gear actuator.  They can leak when up and not down, and vice-versa.



 5.  Read #1 again.      I'm going to stay away from making any further recommendations simply because Dennis knows the 52 better than me.   KEN HAS A YAK 50.  HE EMAILED ME.  BASED ON WHAT HE SAID, HE MAY HAVE TRIED REBUILDING THE CHECK VALVE ON THE INSIDE OF THE FIREWALL, WHICH IS FOR THE EMERGENCY SIDE.  NOT THE MAIN SIDE THAT WAS LEAKING DOWN.  I EXPLAINED TO HIM WHERE THE CHECK VALVE FOR THE MAIN SIDE WAS LOCATED.



 Good Luck,



 Mark

 --

jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:55 pm Post subject: THE OLD Proble..air leaks..with a twist

Dan. I have the freon and the sniffer but am stuck... How do you get the freon into the system? Special adapter? Help. JB



Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID



Dan Payne <dantpayne(at)icloud.com> wrote:



For what it's worth, I've had a "secret weapon" for air leaks for awhile, and I might as well tell the rest of the world...

If you have access to a "freon sniffer", put a little R134 into the system and then charge it up. I guarantee you will be able to find it...those sniffers pick up even the slightest if freon leaks.

Hope that helps someone



Keep 'em Flyin',

Dan "Major" Payne

Owner, Pilot, A&P-IA

(423)-544-8946

Yak-52

Yak-50



On Jan 27, 2015, at 3:58 PM, Phillip Salter <psalter(at)aol.com (psalter(at)aol.com)> wrote:

[quote]I bought an Accutrak with a couple of attachments on eBay for 100.00.  The long steel spike probe is awesome for listening for leaks within check valves. I had a leak under my panel, that was tracked down quickly once I used the Accutrak to find the source. I was hearing a leak coming from the gear extension handle which was tracked back to a damaged shuttle valve in the nose gear actuator. It has been awhile, and memory may be off a bit, but my point is, the problem my be somewhere beside where the sound is emanating. Get to know your system, a map of the system helps tremendously.  

 

  Phil

 

 

  --

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