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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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 Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:33 am Post subject: JC's foldable project... |
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JC
Bet we would all be impressed to see a drawing or some progress pics
of your project.... !
I have been, for some years, rolling the Fourstar around in my
head... It would look much like the one that Bill Bronson build many
years ago...He modified or built a cro molly fuselage for a set of
Firestar wings and tail feathers..It was powered by a half vw engine...
Here are a couple of low res pic... (have more) Herb
On 03/23/2016 04:46 AM, JC Gilpin wrote:
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I'm impressed with the gentlemanly manner that this discussion has
developed. Good points, right to the point, without getting into
personal flaming. Much more decent than many other forums......
I put a couple of hundred hours on a FireFly and a FireStar, flying
from more than a hundred airfields, so lots of folding and unfolding.
Love that Kolb tail folding mechanism, absolutely brilliant! I'll be
copying it on a homebuilt trailerable ultralight that I'm working on.
I have no worries about it's strength, considering the light loads
involved, and history confirms that.
'nother topic -
Sure would be good if replying posters would get into the habit of
deleting the ever increasing trail of earlier poststhat follows each
post and just gets longer and longer...... Not hard to do, just leave
a pertinent line or two to specifically remind us what you are
replying to.....
JG
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Signature text; Fort Marcy Park? Sure...Mr. Foster...Third red light and turn left.
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pc.king(at)comcast.net
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:31 am Post subject: JC's foldable project... |
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Did Bill Bronson publish/sell plans for that cage? That's nice idea.
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Herbgh(at)nctc.com
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| Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:07 am Post subject: JC's foldable project... |
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I received some additional pics from a guy in Mo..who knew Bill...He
said that there were no plans...and he was not sure if Bill was still
with us...I think the plane was hangared in the Mississippi river flood
plain near St. Louis..
Looking at the pics..., Bill's knees were a bit high...indicating a
lack of leg room....
Bill sold half VW conversion plans....and claimed to have a good
crank,reciprocating parts balance technique....
My unbalanced Global engine would idle smoothly down to 600 rpms but
had some vibration in the 2800 to 3000 rpm range where I flew it on an
N3 pup....
It weighed 84 lbs..quite similar to a 447...but did not have the
thrust of course...Under 2 gal's an hour....Herb
On 03/23/2016 08:30 AM, pcking wrote:
[quote]
Did Bill Bronson publish/sell plans for that cage? That's nice idea.
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johngilpin
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 93
Location: 004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:19 am Post subject: JC's foldable project... |
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How do I add a photo in this list??
JG
This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com
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johngilpin
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 93
Location: 004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:36 am Post subject: JC's foldable project... |
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Not sure that I can add a photo in this list. I can't use 'Reply to List' cause it goes into Windows Live and then a message that something isn't configured correctly.... So I compose my posts in Gmail like I'm doing now. I'll try to send a photo. If this works I'll include some details later.JG
[img]cid:ii_im62xfnm0_153a7f6dc211d356[/img]
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:18 pm Post subject: JC's foldable project... |
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I like it, JG.
Homer designed one tractor. I think I would like a tractor better than the pusher.
Wing looks similar to Homer's.
What engine are you using?
How much does it weigh?
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JC Gilpin
Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 4:35 AM
To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: JC's foldable project...
Not sure that I can add a photo in this list. I can't use 'Reply to List' cause it goes into Windows Live and then a message that something isn't configured correctly.... So I compose my posts in Gmail like I'm doing now. I'll try to send a photo. If this works I'll include some details later.
JG
[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01D185F0.ECD0FEE0[/img]
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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johngilpin
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Posts: 93
Location: 004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:30 am Post subject: JC's foldable project... |
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Gday All,
This is not Kolb related so I feel that I'm intruding on this forum, but I've had several requests from folks on this list for more info, so I'll try to cover it all right now even if it gets a bit long-winded, and then I'll get out of your way.
For a start, I call it my 'High Clearance Trail Bike' HCTB. It's all my own design and concept, but of course it's pretty much all been done before, so it's just a matter of using what has already been proven to work elsewhere. It fits the Australian 95.10 ultralite category which allows 300kg(660lbs) max T/O weight, but must allow for a 90kg(198lb) pilot and 15litres(10.5kg) of fuel, so max empty weight = 199.5kg(439lb). (Sounds weird but that's the way they do it.) This one weighs 180kg = 396lb at present. That's a fair bit heavier than most FireStars, which with options of 503, heavy duty wheels and brakes, 15gal tank, etc, I would guess come in at close to 350lb. I only weigh 165#, so my all up weight won't be much more than a 200#er in a FireStar. It's heavier than best for max climb performance, but built for a special purpose as follows. I built the fuselage 10 years ago, then got distracted by other projects until now....
Fuselage construction is all welded aluminum, a mixture of 6061 T6 construction material and 6060 T5 ordinary domestic material. In Australia all aircraft grade material must be imported and with the limited market there's really only one supplier so you can imagine the prices..... An advantage of this material used is that it's all weldable. Nothing is thinner wall than 1.6mm(0.062", 1/16"), which makes welding easy enough but adds weight. It's all welded with an old MigOMag 175, which is a totally basic MIG, no pulse or hot start or variable heat while running, so it was quite a challenge..... Have to travel really fast and don't hesitate, but with a whole lot of practice it works well. Not as pretty as a TIG, but 100% penetration and large strong beads, if a bit lumpy..... But some pretty good results if I do say so myself.... The heat from welding anneals the material either side, so some loss of strength but take that into account in design. But the good point is there are no hard brittle spots that can lead to cracking, as can happen next to a weld in chrom-moly steel.
I feel that I need to justify this method of welded aluminum construction because so many are horrified by the very idea.... I have some experience that proves to me how suitable it can be. I once converted a Beaver RX550 into a twin-engined, push-pull, with 447's front and back. (Incidentally, push-pull is not a good arrangement unless you can have in-flight adjustable props, and beside two 2-strokes is way too many to deal with!) That conversion involved a lot of modification, including moving the landing gear strong point and adding a front engine mount, and I did all that in welded aluminum. I also considerably strengthened the pilot protection cage with welded domestic tubing 3mm(1/8") wall. Then while attempting to land on an outback road to access a fuel station, I hooked the wheels in a single wire power line and crashed vertical nose first onto the road...... Only injury was a broken ankle, but if it hadn't been for that protection cage I'd have been hamburger..... The impact destroyed the aircraft, with every bolted tube joint of the original manufacture busted, and riveted web joints mostly torn away, but not one of my welded joints broke! Lots of bent tubing absorbing the energy, but not one fracture.... That just confirmed testing that I had done in the workshop, and convinced me that I wanted the next aircraft to be built this way. A shattered heel bone takes a long time to heal, and as I hobbled around the workshop working on this HCTB project, that ankle kept reminding me that this time I want even better protection....
And there is massive pilot protection in this aircraft. The boom is 4x3" 0.062 wall 6060 T6 rectangular section, as used in the construction industry. It goes right from the very front of the aircraft to the tail, shaped like the keel of a boat. The connection to the wings and around the pilot is thoroughly triangulated, with multiple redundant load paths and all members carrying loads only in tension/compression, so no bending moments. Extra structure out front to protect me from tree branches, wires, or whatever may come. There are places I want to explore that will have no good landing options, so if the engine stops it'll have to be a rough landing into whatever terrain is down there. I'm tired of having to turn back because landing options weren't suitable for an aircraft where I'm sitting out front with no protection, and my feet would be the first to arrive followed closely by my face.... With a 30kt landing speed, good seatbelts, and the structural protection in this aircraft, I think it would be walkaway from just about anything..... Not that I'm going to get reckless about it..... No going to count on this protection over tall forests..... Much of Australia is covered by 'mulga scrub'. These are small trees 10-20' tall, often open spaced but not open enough to land and roll. Very tough and hard, push a branch and it pushes back. Kind of like mesquite, tough and ornery... Jutting up and out from the base are often dead branches that are as sharp and rigid as spears.... That's the sort of terrain that I want protection from....
The wing at present is the Dacron skin from a Drifter on my own ladder truss frame. Goes OK, but I may change to something more high-lift for slower STOL. Haven't built the folding mechanism until I settle of the right wing. The tail is from that wrecked Beaver (only the tail and rear 447 survived). Still need to build a folding tail like the Kolb. Aileron and elevator controls are push-pull cables, rudder by wire cables. The seat tank is rotationally molded polyethylene, made here for gyros, 15 gal.
One aircraft that stimulated this design was the AirBike, except I didn't want my feet outside the cockpit, with cold wind blowing up pant legs...... This concept could just as well be built from chrom-moly or aluminum tube joined with riveted webs. I found enough books on aircraft design that give guidance on the incident angles, proportions of tail surfaces, etc, etc, and measuring of other aircraft with proven flying characteristics, so that this wasn't really an unknown design. I'm no aeronautical engineer, but neither was Homer Kolb.....
My Kolb list access doesn't show the last photo I posted, but the rest of you seem to have seen it, so I'll go ahead and post some more photos, then get out of the way.
Cheers,
JG
[img]cid:ii_imaefpnd5_153b78867b77fb59[/img]
It does look a bit like a High Clearance Trail Bike, eh....
[img]cid:ii_imaehad36_153b78986fd4b15b[/img]
That 'keel' goes right through under the pilot.
The landing gear and main strut mounts are all one piece to carry the largest loads to one point.
That 'stinger' out front is to protect the prop in case I brake too hard and nose over.
[img]cid:ii_imaewbnk8_153b7943a434ddf0[/img]
The early framework.
[img]cid:ii_imadpdn92_153b775a80275b14[/img]
It will eventually pack up like this to be able to load into the slimmest trailer for easy towing. The engine in front makes the folded width more compact.
[img]cid:ii_imadqnmm3_153b77691e90fa71[/img]
Love this tail wheel! It makes this a 'tail wheel' aircraft rather than a 'tail dragger'. As soon as it's on the ground I have complete steerage control, on soft sand or hard asphalt, regardless of x-wind. It's 10" diameter and 3" wide, and I'm willing to live with the minimal drag at our speeds. I hated the little toy wheel on the Kolbs...
[img]cid:ii_imaejd527_153b78b01b15a23d[/img]
Those down tubes are 1/8" wall....
My ankle feels really safe and comfortable in there....
I do like to sit well back behind the engine and all that structure up front.....
Visibility is still pretty good.
[img]cid:ii_imb2ylr210_153b9fcf58d7aaac[/img]
First flight, with the wings borrowed from a Zenith 701. It didn't like those slatted wings, way too draggy.... Went better without the leading edge slats, but still not suitable for a folding aircraft due to inevitable dents in a metal wing from all the handling.
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Richard Pike
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee
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| Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:19 am Post subject: Re: JC's foldable project... |
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John you have designed a very clever and well thought out little airplane. I especially like how the landing gear arrangement was done. Hope you never need to prove it to be as tough as it looks.
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Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0
Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing. |
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