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another switch question

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kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: another switch question

I am curious about the function of the pictured "Engine Start" switch. It is a push button switch with four terminals on the back. Two of the terminals are normally open, two are normally closed. I can see how the normally open terminals could be used to drive a starter motor relay, but what would the typical use be for the normally closed terminals on an engine start switch? See attached pic.

engine-start-switch.jpg

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rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:38 pm Post subject: another switch question

Just a guessâ€¦â€¦ground out one of the mags?

 

Rene'

801-721-6080

 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Ryan

Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 4:13 PM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: another switch question



 

I am curious about the function of the pictured "Engine Start" switch. It is a push button switch with four terminals on the back. Two of the terminals are normally open, two are normally closed. I can see how the normally open terminals could be used to drive a starter motor relay, but what would the typical use be for the normally closed terminals on an engine start switch? See attached pic.

lyleapgmc

Joined: 19 Feb 2014
Posts: 57

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: another switch question

To remove power from anything not needed while cranking the engine.

     

     On 3/28/2016 6:36 PM, Rene wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         <![endif]-->   <![endif]-->                

Just               a guessâ€¦â€¦ground out one of the mags?         

Â          

Rene'         

801-721-6080         

Â                     

From:               owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)               [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On                 Behalf Of Ken Ryan

               Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 4:13 PM

               To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

               Subject: another switch question         

         

Â                     

I am curious about the function of the             pictured "Engine Start" switch. It is a push button switch             with four terminals on the back. Two of the terminals are             normally open, two are normally closed. I can see how the             normally open terminals could be used to drive a starter             motor relay, but what would the typical use be for the             normally closed terminals on an engine start switch? See             attached pic.

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: another switch question

This looks like the 'Steinair' switch they sell, (which I'm keen on using on our -9a build) the connectors look like 1/8inch wide, are 'fast-on' PIDG connectors available, or should one solder.



Regards



John

ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:55 pm Post subject: another switch question

Hi Ken;



 That's a mighty rugged looking switch! I think the normally closed contacts would normally be used to turn off (temporarily) anything you didn't want running while engaging the starter.

 Cheers!   Stu.

 



   From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 3:12:39 PM

Subject: another switch question

 



 I am curious about the function of the pictured "Engine Start" switch. It is a push button switch with four terminals on the back. Two of the terminals are normally open, two are normally closed. I can see how the normally open terminals could be used to drive a starter motor relay, but what would the typical use be for the normally closed terminals on an engine start switch? See attached pic.

ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:00 pm Post subject: another switch question

Hi Ken;



 I would like the mfg. and model number of that switch, please.

 Cheers!   Stu.

 



   From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 3:12:39 PM

Subject: another switch question

 



 I am curious about the function of the pictured "Engine Start" switch. It is a push button switch with four terminals on the back. Two of the terminals are normally open, two are normally closed. I can see how the normally open terminals could be used to drive a starter motor relay, but what would the typical use be for the normally closed terminals on an engine start switch? See attached pic.

kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:17 pm Post subject: another switch question

It's made by Elewind. Here's a link:



http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ELEWIND-22mm-1NO1NC-Momentary-push-button-With-ENGINE-START-symbol-PM221F-11-S-With-ENGINE-START/737142_1719523504.html





On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 6:59 PM,  <ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Ken;



 I would like the mfg. and model number of that switch, please.

 Cheers!Â Â  Stu.

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:25 pm Post subject: another switch question

I don't know if the manufacturer would have anything to add, this is obviously an automotive based switch so what the NC contacts would be used for in a modern car is anyone's guess - and the advert states the contacts are rated 2-5 amps

John



Sent from my iPad



     ----x--O--x----

On 29 Mar 2016, at 03:59 am, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Ken;



 I would like the mfg. and model number of that switch, please.

 Cheers!   Stu.

 



   From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)>

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 3:12:39 PM

Subject: another switch question

 



 I am curious about the function of the pictured "Engine Start" switch. It is a push button switch with four terminals on the back. Two of the terminals are normally open, two are normally closed. I can see how the normally open terminals could be used to drive a starter motor relay, but what would the typical use be for the normally closed terminals on an engine start switch? See attached pic.

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 11:25 pm Post subject: another switch question

http://www.steinair.com/storedetail.cfm?productid=668



Sent from my iPad



     ----x--O--x----

On 29 Mar 2016, at 03:59 am, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Ken;



 I would like the mfg. and model number of that switch, please.

 Cheers!   Stu.

 



   From: "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)>

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 3:12:39 PM

Subject: another switch question

 



 I am curious about the function of the pictured "Engine Start" switch. It is a push button switch with four terminals on the back. Two of the terminals are normally open, two are normally closed. I can see how the normally open terminals could be used to drive a starter motor relay, but what would the typical use be for the normally closed terminals on an engine start switch? See attached pic.

ARGOLDMAN(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 5:01 am Post subject: another switch question

My guess is that it is a somewhat standard pushbutton switch back to  which the manufacturer attaches a "start" placarded front.

  

 Just ignore the nc part. If you really want you can use the NC part to  disable other electronics during your start, however you add one more point of  failure to a switch of possible questionable reliability.-- With this switch, if  it fails, so you can't start your craft (you are probably on the ground at this  point) whereas if it fails you may not have use of the electronics that it  defeats.

  

 It is not unusual to not use parts of a switch or IC

  

 Rich

  

 Rich

  

  In a message dated 3/28/2016 7:57:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		        Hi Ken;



   That's a mighty rugged looking switch! I think the normally closed    contacts would normally be used to turn off (temporarily) anything    you didn't want running while engaging the starter.

   Cheers!   Stu.

   



       From:    "Ken Ryan" <keninalaska(at)gmail.com>

To:    aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016    3:12:39 PM

Subject: another switch question

   



   I am curious about the function of the pictured "Engine Start"    switch. It is a push button switch with four terminals on the back. Two of the    terminals are normally open, two are normally closed. I can see how the    normally open terminals could be used to drive a starter motor relay, but what    would the typical use be for the normally closed terminals on an engine start    switch? See attached pic.

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:11 am Post subject: another switch question

At 05:12 PM 3/28/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I am curious about the function of the pictured "Engine Start" switch. It is a push button switch with four terminals on the back. Two of the terminals are normally open, two are normally closed. I can see how the normally open terminals could be used to drive a starter motor relay, but what would the typical use be for the normally closed terminals on an engine start switch? See attached pic.

 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="engine-start-switch.jpg"

 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="engine-start-switch.jpg"

 X-Attachment-Id: f_imcjusoz0

 	


   I would guess that the n.c. side disconnects

   accessories not intended to be on the bus

   during cranking. I think all my cars drop

   the accessory bus during cranking.



 

 

   Bob . . .

kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:39 am Post subject: another switch question

Thanks guys. I can't see any reason to utilize the NC side in my installation.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Â  I would guess that the n.c. side disconnects

 Â  accessories not intended to be on the bus

 Â  during cranking. I think all my cars drop

 Â  the accessory bus during cranking.



 

 

 Â  Bob . . .

jonlaury

Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 336

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:17 am Post subject: Re: another switch question

 	  kenryan wrote: 	
		  It's made by Elewind. Here's a link:



http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ELEWIND-22mm-1NO1NC-Momentary-push-button-With-ENGINE-START-symbol-PM221F-11-S-With-ENGINE-START/737142_1719523504.html





On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 6:59 PM,  <ashleysc> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Ken;



 I would like the mfg. and model number of that switch, please.

 Cheers!Â Â  Stu.

 



 



	
	




I have not bought switches from the Elewind company, but I've been using Chinese SS/illuminated switches for years in a product I make. Aside from the robust, functional 'look', there's a huge difference in quality control, mfr to mfr with failure rates of some, over time, as high as 80%. If the aesthetics of the switch are irresistible, then vet the switch company by asking for references for large volume purchasers in the USA for your specific part #. Ask the USA company for switch application and quality control reports for your specific part #. I found a Chinese 'company' with a reasonable failure rate this way. I accept that there will be occasional failures in my non-critical application as a trade-off for pleasing aesthetics, price and feature set.   I definitely would not use a Chinese sourced switch in any sort of critical application, and really feel that they have no place in an airplane, if you believe that catastrophes result from a series of bad decisions or small things going wrong.

It seems that there are a ton of switch 'companies' in Yueqing all offering the same switches. I suspect that there are a few manufacturers. As this style of switch is offered by US companies (E-Switch, Digikey, Mouser) at 5-8x (or more) the Chinese price, I suspect that large US distributors can demand and get better quality control, but it comes at a price. I can't imagine Digikey tolerating the failure rate that I've seen in some Chinese sources, or even the one that I use, which is pretty low.



YMMV

John

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:30 am Post subject: another switch question

His would you quantify 'Chinese' compared with US quality (control)

Sent from my iPad

     ----x--O--x----

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 29 Mar 2016, at 07:17 pm, "jonlaury" <jonlaury(at)impulse.net> wrote:

 kenryan wrote:

> It's made by Elewind. Here's a link:

> 

> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ELEWIND-22mm-1NO1NC-Momentary-push-button-With-ENGINE-START-symbol-PM221F-11-S-With-ENGINE-START/737142_1719523504.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/ELEWIND-22mm-1NO1NC-Momentary-push-button-With-ENGINE-START-symbol-PM221F-11-S-With-ENGINE-START/737142_1719523504.html)

> 

> 

> 

> 

>> On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 6:59 PM,   wrote:

>> 

>> Hi Ken;

>> 

>> I would like the mfg. and model number of that switch, please.

>> Cheers!   Stu.

 I have not bought switches from the Elewind company, but I've been using Chinese SS/illuminated switches for years in a product I make. Aside from the robust, functional 'look', there's a huge difference in quality control, mfr to mfr with failure rates of some, over time, as high as 80%. If the aesthetics of the switch are irresistible, then vet the switch company by asking for references for large volume purchasers in the USA for your specific part #. Ask the USA company for switch application and quality control reports for your specific part #. I found a Chinese 'company' with a reasonable failure rate this way. I accept that there will be occasional failures in my non-critical application as a trade-off for pleasing aesthetics, price and feature set.   I definitely would not use a Chinese sourced switch in any sort of critical application, and really feel that they have no place in an airplane, if you believe that catastrophes result from a series of bad decisions or sm!

 all things going wrong.

 It seems that there are a ton of switch 'companies' in Yueqing all offering the same switches. I suspect that there are a few manufacturers. As this style of switch is offered by US companies (E-Switch, Digikey, Mouser) at 5-8x (or more) the Chinese price, I suspect that large US distributors can demand and get better quality control, but it comes at a price. I can't imagine Digikey tolerating the failure rate that I've seen in some Chinese sources, or even the one that I use, which is pretty low.

 YMMV

 John

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=454329#454329

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: another switch question

Hi Bob

Looking at this switch, it's a double pole changeover style: if used as a simple (on)-off (ie: momentary push on - to power the starter contactor) is it a good idea to connect the terminals together, or is one pole OK for a standard starter contactor

John



Sent from my iPad



     ----x--O--x----

On 29 Mar 2016, at 04:01 pm, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 05:12 PM 3/28/2016, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I am curious about the function of the pictured "Engine Start" switch. It is a push button switch with four terminals on the back. Two of the terminals are normally open, two are normally closed. I can see how the normally open terminals could be used to drive a starter motor relay, but what would the typical use be for the normally closed terminals on an engine start switch? See attached pic.

 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="engine-start-switch.jpg"

 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="engine-start-switch.jpg"

 X-Attachment-Id: f_imcjusoz0

 	


   I would guess that the n.c. side disconnects

   accessories not intended to be on the bus

   during cranking. I think all my cars drop

   the accessory bus during cranking.



 

 

   Bob . . .

JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2016 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: another switch question

Hi a Guys



Anyone ordered this switch from China, and if so anyone had difficulty actually placing the order.



Regards



John

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