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Oil and other dark arts

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kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:49 am Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

Hi



I have been trying to get smart with regard to oil to use in the -10. I am wondering what others have been using and why.



Post break in, I have been using Phillips XC 20W50. Barret suggest Aeroshell W100 + CAMGUARD. 



A local A&P has seen cam problems with the Phillips and also recommends the change.  Apparently there is on ZDDP in the Phillips which is need to protect the CAMS. MIke Busch also makes the recommendation.



My only issue is that cold weather (although I am in a heated hanger) could be an issue.



Anyway, I wonder what the collective has to say on the this question.



Inquiring minds need to know



Les

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:28 am Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

Phillips XC 20W50 with Camguard.  I shifted from AeroShell 15W50 based on

information about the merits of non-synthetic oil use in aircraft engines.

You point on the additive is correct - thus the need to use Camguard with

the Phillips. 



Nothing wrong with Aeroshell W100 plus Camguard other than cold weather ops.

If you pre-heat you mitigate this issue.



Overall - other than using Camguard no matter what, I offer that the choice

between Phillips 20W50, AeroShell 15W50 or Aeroshell W100 makes little

difference.



Fly on,

Carl



--

bwestfall

Joined: 22 Oct 2008
Posts: 131
Location: Portland, OR

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:53 am Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

FWIW...



My friend who owns and engine rebuild shop that has been doing it for

decades swears by W100.  I asked him why one day and he didn't give

specifics but he said something like "because I tear them down all day and

if it were my engine I'd only use Aeroshell W100".  So his recommendation is

W100 w/CAMGUARD (if you don't fly it often).



Ben



--

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 454
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:59 am Post subject: Re: Oil and other dark arts

I used Aeroshell W100 with Camguard up until I had new Lycoming cylinders installed last spring. Zephyr Aircraft Engines in Zephyrhills, FL. did the work. They recommended switching to XC 20/50 at that time. They had no problem with W100, but said in all their years of overhauling engines they just liked the XC better. They suggested going back to using Camguard once the new cylinders were broken in.

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:33 am Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

On 7/9/2016 9:49 AM, kearney wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Post break in, I have been using Phillips XC 20W50. Barret suggest Aeroshell W100 + CAMGUARD.


	


Aviation Consumer did a test awhile back, and found that Phillips XC 

20w50 with Camguard was one of the best at preventing rust, and not 

nearly as good without Camguard (holds true for all of the different 

oils tested).  Use Camguard regardless of which oil you choose.



Check this thread, post #4 for a synopsis of their tests:



http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?23996-Aviation-Consumer-14-Day-Oil-Shootout



-Dj

-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:25 am Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

I've never used camguard in 40 years of ownership.  I use Aeroshell W100 

.... I'm in FL ..... exclusively.  Having said that, I have a friend 

with O-360 that started using camgaurd with a fresh engine overhaul, 

including new cylinders.  He had them replaced under warranty for wear.  

Same with the second set, which he replaced on his dime.  I don't 

remember what brand of cylinders .... I can find out if someone is 

interested.  He quit using camgaurd on 'his' set of cylinders .... the 

only change in his routine ..... and has had no more problems.  I've 

asked the question about camguard and the answer I get is if the 

airplane is flown regularly then you don't need it. If the engine sits 

for long periods, then it's beneficial.

Linn

On 7/9/2016 11:32 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On 7/9/2016 9:49 AM, kearney wrote:

> Post break in, I have been using Phillips XC 20W50. Barret suggest 

> Aeroshell W100 + CAMGUARD.

 Aviation Consumer did a test awhile back, and found that Phillips XC 

 20w50 with Camguard was one of the best at preventing rust, and not 

 nearly as good without Camguard (holds true for all of the different 

 oils tested).  Use Camguard regardless of which oil you choose.

 Check this thread, post #4 for a synopsis of their tests:

 http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?23996-Aviation-Consumer-14-Day-Oil-Shootout 

 -Dj

schmoboy

Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 130

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:34 am Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

Dark arts indeed. 



Here's a link to a EAA webinar done by Mike Busch back in 2011 I 

believe.  All About Oil...



http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1149666747001



For what it's worth I use Phillips XC 20W50 + Camguard in the winter and 

straight Aeroshell W100 other times.



-Sean #40303

 	  Quote: 	
		   kearney <mailto:kearney(at)shaw.ca>

 July 9, 2016 at 8:49 AM

 



 Hi



 I have been trying to get smart with regard to oil to use in the -10. 

 I am wondering what others have been using and why.



 Post break in, I have been using Phillips XC 20W50. Barret suggest 

 Aeroshell W100 + CAMGUARD.



 A local A&P has seen cam problems with the Phillips and also 

 recommends the change. Apparently there is on ZDDP in the Phillips 

 which is need to protect the CAMS. MIke Busch also makes the 

 recommendation.



 My only issue is that cold weather (although I am in a heated hanger) 

 could be an issue.



 Anyway, I wonder what the collective has to say on the this question.



 Inquiring minds need to know



 Les





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457980#457980

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 8:56 am Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

Ran across a few other oil articles that may be interesting to some.



Avweb "Oil Myths Debunked":

http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/oil_myths_debunked_197096-1.html



GAN "What Oil Should I Use?"

http://generalaviationnews.com/2013/05/19/what-oil-should-i-use/



Aviation Pros "All About Aircraft Oil :For Piston Engines"

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/10388663/all-about-aircraft-oil-for-piston-engines



-Dj

-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87

Sportsman 2+2 Builder #7118 N421DJ - http://deej.net/sportsman/

Glastar Flyer N866RH - http://deej.net/glastar/

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Oil and other dark arts

Hi Again



I have heard from a very knowledgeable source that a major oil company did a study of the factors affecting engine wear. As it turns out, the single most important determinant was frequent replacement of the oil filter. 



Make sense when you consider that you are removing wear particles form the system (I guess).



Cheers



Les

gengrumpy

Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:31 am Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

Les,



I use Aeroshell +100 with Camguard added during hot months, and Aeroshell +80 with Camguard in the cold months.



Change oil every 4 months as Mike Bush has recommended for a long time.  I have yet not hit 50 hrs (other change point) in a 4 month period. 



grumpy



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 9, 2016, at 8:49 AM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi

 

 I have been trying to get smart with regard to oil to use in the -10. I am wondering what others have been using and why.

 

 Post break in, I have been using Phillips XC 20W50. Barret suggest Aeroshell W100 + CAMGUARD. 

 

 A local A&P has seen cam problems with the Phillips and also recommends the change.  Apparently there is on ZDDP in the Phillips which is need to protect the CAMS. MIke Busch also makes the recommendation.

 

 My only issue is that cold weather (although I am in a heated hanger) could be an issue.

 

 Anyway, I wonder what the collective has to say on the this question.

 

 Inquiring minds need to know

 

 Les

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457980#457980

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:32 am Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

Same as below by reference to the same link.



On 7/9/2016 12:34 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Dark arts indeed. 



 Here's a link to a EAA webinar done by Mike Busch back in 2011 I 

 believe.  All About Oil...



 http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=1149666747001



 For what it's worth I use Phillips XC 20W50 + Camguard in the winter 

 and straight Aeroshell W100 other times.



 -Sean #40303 


	




---

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:39 pm Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

Using the the Plus version of Aeroshell is a waste of money If you are 

using Camguard. The Plus version has the Lycoming additive, which is 

only needed if you have one of the 76 series (like O-320-H2AD) or E 

series O-360 that have dual headed magneto. Having more varieties of 

additives is not a benefit. Either get the straight weight non-Plus, or 

Phillips XC.

On 7/9/2016 12:27 PM, Miller John wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Les,

 I use Aeroshell +100 with Camguard added during hot months, and Aeroshell +80 with Camguard in the cold months.

 Change oil every 4 months as Mike Bush has recommended for a long time.  I have yet not hit 50 hrs (other change point) in a 4 month period.

 grumpy

> On Jul 9, 2016, at 8:49 AM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

>

> 

>

> Hi

>

> I have been trying to get smart with regard to oil to use in the -10. I am wondering what others have been using and why.

>

> Post break in, I have been using Phillips XC 20W50. Barret suggest Aeroshell W100 + CAMGUARD.

>

> A local A&P has seen cam problems with the Phillips and also recommends the change.  Apparently there is on ZDDP in the Phillips which is need to protect the CAMS. MIke Busch also makes the recommendation.

>

> My only issue is that cold weather (although I am in a heated hanger) could be an issue.

>

> Anyway, I wonder what the collective has to say on the this question.

>

> Inquiring minds need to know

>

> Les

>

>

> Read this topic online here:

>

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457980#457980

>

>

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

Sounds like his cylinder problem was not wear, but glazing from using 

the additives too early in the engine life. I have about 300 hours of 

Phillips use on my Mooney, plus 40 on my -10.

Lycoming cylinders rarely have pre-mature wear. Valve sticking,yes; 

cylinder wear no.

On 7/9/2016 9:25 AM, Linn Walters wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 I've never used camguard in 40 years of ownership.  I use Aeroshell W100

 ..... I'm in FL ..... exclusively.  Having said that, I have a friend

 with O-360 that started using camgaurd with a fresh engine overhaul,

 including new cylinders.  He had them replaced under warranty for wear.

 Same with the second set, which he replaced on his dime.  I don't

 remember what brand of cylinders .... I can find out if someone is

 interested.  He quit using camgaurd on 'his' set of cylinders .... the

 only change in his routine ..... and has had no more problems.  I've

 asked the question about camguard and the answer I get is if the

 airplane is flown regularly then you don't need it. If the engine sits

 for long periods, then it's beneficial.

 Linn

 On 7/9/2016 11:32 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:

> 

>

> On 7/9/2016 9:49 AM, kearney wrote:

>> Post break in, I have been using Phillips XC 20W50. Barret suggest

>> Aeroshell W100 + CAMGUARD.

>

> Aviation Consumer did a test awhile back, and found that Phillips XC

> 20w50 with Camguard was one of the best at preventing rust, and not

> nearly as good without Camguard (holds true for all of the different

> oils tested).  Use Camguard regardless of which oil you choose.

>

> Check this thread, post #4 for a synopsis of their tests:

>

> http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?23996-Aviation-Consumer-14-Day-Oil-Shootout

> -Dj

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:58 pm Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

I agree, it's much easier to abuse your cylinders during break in and have that be the cause of all the problems. I've used camguard for hundreds of hours in the RV 10 and everything is great.

In the RV 14, I did not break it in with camguard. Iran Phillips mineral oil for the first oil change. After that I i ran Phillips 20â€“50xc. Not only did I not one extra additives for the break-in, but while you're flying a lot, there's much less need for camguard. 

Regarding the Aviation consumer review on oil and camguard,

The gist of the article really is that any oil does well with Camguard. But, you may as well run Phillips due to its lower price and multi-weight if you live or fly to a colder environment. I used to use camguard with Exxon elite. That works well too. It's just costs more.

But there are some benefits to a mineral-based versus a synthetic based oil and vice versa.

Regarding straight wait oil versus multi weight oil, that's a really really tough question. Sure, straight weight oil is great if you live in fly only in stable climates. My problem is, if I change oil in August, do I need to use multi weight? Or do I need you straight weight?

Basically, at most oil changes in any season, there's a fairly good chance that I'm going to be flying with oil in a colder temperature where nighttime temperatures maybe 40Â° or less. Unless I change it in June, and plan to fly 25 to 50 hours before September, that would be about the only time where it would make sense to use straight weight oil. Almost all of the year at most any oil change, I am going to have some seasonal overlap, and I want the multi. So to simplify things, just by multi wait all the time for me. For those who only live in warm temperatures and only fly warm temperatures, I almost feel sorry for you. If you have no reason to run multi weight ever, that means you're probably not enjoying the various seasons in the various parts of the country.  these are great traveling machines!

Tim

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 9, 2016, at 3:53 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

 Sounds like his cylinder problem was not wear, but glazing from using the additives too early in the engine life. I have about 300 hours of Phillips use on my Mooney, plus 40 on my -10.

 Lycoming cylinders rarely have pre-mature wear. Valve sticking,yes; cylinder wear no.

> On 7/9/2016 9:25 AM, Linn Walters wrote:

> 

> 

> I've never used camguard in 40 years of ownership.  I use Aeroshell W100

> ..... I'm in FL ..... exclusively.  Having said that, I have a friend

> with O-360 that started using camgaurd with a fresh engine overhaul,

> including new cylinders.  He had them replaced under warranty for wear.

> Same with the second set, which he replaced on his dime.  I don't

> remember what brand of cylinders .... I can find out if someone is

> interested.  He quit using camgaurd on 'his' set of cylinders .... the

> only change in his routine ..... and has had no more problems.  I've

> asked the question about camguard and the answer I get is if the

> airplane is flown regularly then you don't need it. If the engine sits

> for long periods, then it's beneficial.

> Linn

> 

>> On 7/9/2016 11:32 AM, Dj Merrill wrote:

>> 

>> 

>>> On 7/9/2016 9:49 AM, kearney wrote:

>>> Post break in, I have been using Phillips XC 20W50. Barret suggest

>>> Aeroshell W100 + CAMGUARD.

>> 

>> Aviation Consumer did a test awhile back, and found that Phillips XC

>> 20w50 with Camguard was one of the best at preventing rust, and not

>> nearly as good without Camguard (holds true for all of the different

>> oils tested).  Use Camguard regardless of which oil you choose.

>> 

>> Check this thread, post #4 for a synopsis of their tests:

>> 

>> http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?23996-Aviation-Consumer-14-Day-Oil-Shootout

>> 

>> 

>> -Dj

gengrumpy

Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:37 pm Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

Kelly,



One of the Aviation Consumer articles a few years back looked at running + with Camguard.  Their article reported little added difference adding the Camguard to the + oil.  The + is an anti-corrosion additive.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 9, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Using the the Plus version of Aeroshell is a waste of money If you are using Camguard. The Plus version has the Lycoming additive, which is only needed if you have one of the 76 series (like O-320-H2AD) or E series O-360 that have dual headed magneto. Having more varieties of additives is not a benefit. Either get the straight weight non-Plus, or Phillips XC.

 

 On 7/9/2016 12:27 PM, Miller John wrote:

> 

> 

> Les,

> 

> I use Aeroshell +100 with Camguard added during hot months, and Aeroshell +80 with Camguard in the cold months.

> 

> Change oil every 4 months as Mike Bush has recommended for a long time.  I have yet not hit 50 hrs (other change point) in a 4 month period.

> 

> grumpy

> 

>> On Jul 9, 2016, at 8:49 AM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Hi

>> 

>> I have been trying to get smart with regard to oil to use in the -10. I am wondering what others have been using and why.

>> 

>> Post break in, I have been using Phillips XC 20W50. Barret suggest Aeroshell W100 + CAMGUARD.

>> 

>> A local A&P has seen cam problems with the Phillips and also recommends the change.  Apparently there is on ZDDP in the Phillips which is need to protect the CAMS. MIke Busch also makes the recommendation.

>> 

>> My only issue is that cold weather (although I am in a heated hanger) could be an issue.

>> 

>> Anyway, I wonder what the collective has to say on the this question.

>> 

>> Inquiring minds need to know

>> 

>> Les

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Read this topic online here:

>> 

>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=457980#457980

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:03 pm Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

I think you mis-read or misunderstood. The + or Lycoming additive is an 

extreme pressure lube, no more no less. Originally TCP, now some other 

phosphate compound. It is NOT an anti-corrosive. It was developed to 

stop the cam failures in cold weather that the O-320H2AD engine was 

experiencing in the 1977-78 C172s. It plus complete lifter redesign 

fixed those engines. Only engines in those series require the additive 

by AD. For the rest it was never needed, and is maybe it does no harm basis.

Camguard is anti-corrosive. All Aeroshell have moderate anti-corrosive 

package, Exxon has more, Camguard a lot more. Phillips has very little.

On 7/9/2016 3:35 PM, Miller John wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Kelly,

 One of the Aviation Consumer articles a few years back looked at running + with Camguard.  Their article reported little added difference adding the Camguard to the + oil.  The + is an anti-corrosion additive.

> On Jul 9, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

>

> 

>

> Using the the Plus version of Aeroshell is a waste of money If you are using Camguard. The Plus version has the Lycoming additive, which is only needed if you have one of the 76 series (like O-320-H2AD) or E series O-360 that have dual headed magneto. Having more varieties of additives is not a benefit. Either get the straight weight non-Plus, or Phillips XC.

>

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

gengrumpy

Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:21 pm Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

I would appreciate your source on the + composition.  All that I have read says it is an anti-corrosion additive, not wear related a specific engine …..

Thanks - Grumpy

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 9, 2016, at 8:02 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

 I think you mis-read or misunderstood. The + or Lycoming additive is an extreme pressure lube, no more no less. Originally TCP, now some other phosphate compound. It is NOT an anti-corrosive. It was developed to stop the cam failures in cold weather that the O-320H2AD engine was experiencing in the 1977-78 C172s. It plus complete lifter redesign fixed those engines. Only engines in those series require the additive by AD. For the rest it was never needed, and is maybe it does no harm basis.

 Camguard is anti-corrosive. All Aeroshell have moderate anti-corrosive package, Exxon has more, Camguard a lot more. Phillips has very little.

 On 7/9/2016 3:35 PM, Miller John wrote:

> 

> 

> Kelly,

> 

> One of the Aviation Consumer articles a few years back looked at running + with Camguard.  Their article reported little added difference adding the Camguard to the + oil.  The + is an anti-corrosion additive.

> 

>> On Jul 9, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Using the the Plus version of Aeroshell is a waste of money If you are using Camguard. The Plus version has the Lycoming additive, which is only needed if you have one of the 76 series (like O-320-H2AD) or E series O-360 that have dual headed magneto. Having more varieties of additives is not a benefit. Either get the straight weight non-Plus, or Phillips XC.

>>

gengrumpy

Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

Kelly,

The below is direct from the Aeroshell website.  Seems that there are 3 properties of the + oil that can benefit engines…..



Grumpy



AEROSHELL 100 PLUS

AeroShell 100 Plus



Modern Additives come to Aviation Engine Oil



Shell has developed a new aviation monograde which takes advantage of modern additive technology. This oil, AeroShell Oil W100 Plus, is a SAE 50 grade similar to the traditional W100 grade, but includes an anti wear additive, an anti corrosion additive and a metal passivator.

How do these additives work and what advantage do they give you?

I am often asked about whether after market "wonder cure" additives benefit an engine and if they can be used in aviation piston engine oils. The general rule is that, unless they have been properly tested and approved for use in aircraft engines, they should not be used. Often these additives at best give no benefit at all, or can even cause the engine harm.

Let me give you some examples.

Most of the additives on the market have been developed for the automotive market, where conditions are much different to those found in aircraft engines. In automotive engines, cylinder head temperatures are much lower, the fuel is unleaded, the piston diameter to length ratio is much smaller, the mean power setting is much lower etc. I could go on, but you get the idea.

These and other factors put different demands on the oil and have lead to aviation engine oils being much different to their automotive cousins. If we take the cylinder head temperature for instance, aviation engines typically run around 100 oC hotter than automotive engines and this leads to aviation oils needing to have specialised additives which do not form ash - hence the name ashless dispersant oils.

If we were to use an additive which has been developed for the automotive market, then it is likely to be an ash forming compound which can cause combustion chamber deposits, leading to pre ignition which normally rapidly leads to a hole being burned through the piston and you looking at a stationary propeller looking for somewhere to land.

Other additives, such as the Teflon type "anti wear" additives, are sold as being able to improve engine lubrication. This type of additive is of dubious benefit and just coat the whole engine with a layer of Teflon, regardless of where it is needed. This can, at worst, restrict oil ways and limit lubricant flow, and at best is an expensive way of putting an unnecessary coating on your oil filter.

If they were useful, ask yourself why the oil companies do not blend them onto their oils already? These additives are not approved for use in aircraft engines, so using them is not only potentially dangerous, but also invalidates any engine warranty that you may have.

Moving onto W100 Plus, the load carrying additive works in a more subtle way. The compound is blended into the oil and does not react until it is needed. The way this works is that if two moving parts start to make contact, then friction causes heat to be produced - this heat causes the additive to alter its chemical structure and it then reacts with the metal surfaces, coating them with a protective layer.

If the two moving parts then try to make contact again, then they are separated by a layer of the additive even if no oil is present. In this way the additive is only deposited where it is needed.

You will appreciate that this is particularly useful in limiting wear when lubrication is marginal, such as on engine start up and on components which experience unusually high load - typically cams and cam followers.

This form of load carrying / anti wear additive is so effective that the same type of compound used in all modern jet engine oils to improve their performance; without it these oils would not meet the demands put on them. This has also been recognised by Lycoming; they have adopted the additive under the name LW16702, and is mandated for use in their O-320H, O-360E's and TIO-541 series engines. Therefore using AeroShell Oil W100 Plus means that no additional additive needs to be used if you operate one of these engines.

Not only does AeroShell Oil W100 Plus have this anti wear additive, but it also contains a "metal passivator" and a corrosion inhibitor. What does this mean?

Metals such as Copper are normally a problem for oils as they cause oil to degrade quicker than they would otherwise. This can be a problem as many General Aviation engines contain Copper - the largest area is normally found on cam shafts which is left over from the manufacturing process.

When cams are manufactured the cam face is often hardened using a process called Nitriding. This leaves a hard, but brittle, surface - ideal for the cam face, but not for the rest of the shaft.

The rest of the shaft does not need to be hardened and it performs better if the surface is not brittle from the Nitriding process. So to protect the rest of the shaft, a thin layer of Copper plating is used to cover all the areas which do not need to be hardened.

Once the cam has been manufactured this Copper serves no useful purpose, but it is not removed. This can be a problem for the oil in an engine because, as I have mentioned, the copper acts as a catalyst to make the oil degrade faster than normal - and a degraded oil does not make a good lubricant.

This is where the "metal passivator" comes in. This additive reacts with the surface of Copper components forming a protective layer which separates them from the oil, thus preventing the Copper from degrading the oil.

One more additive is used in AeroShell Oil W100 Plus and that is a corrosion inhibitor. This inhibits the formation of rust in the engine - a common root cause of engines not reaching TBO. Rust is often found in engines as used oil is acidic and, combined with dissolved water from the atmosphere, causes corrosion.

If you are wondering why this problem is more pronounced than in automotive engines, it is all due to how often they are used. The average General Aviation aircraft flies for around 100 hours per year. Compare that to your own car which is probably 4 times that figure and you start to appreciate how under utilised aircraft engines generally are.

I should make it clear that AeroShell W100 Plus is not a preservative oil, but an improved operational oil which has the ability to help prevent the common causes of engine damage by making use of modern additive technology. If you know that your aircraft is not going to be flown for a month or more, you should consider using a preservative oil which we covered in Newsletter 9 issued in Summer 1999.

The final thing to notice is that AeroShell Oil W100 Plus is a monograde oil - not a multigrade - and is therefore subject to the same ambient temperature limitations of all SAE 50 grade oils, such as AeroShell Oil W100. You should check your Pilot's Operating Manual to see what temperature range is suitable for SAE 50 grade oils in your aircraft, but if you want to move to a mutigrade, then similar benefits to those highlighted above can be gained from using our semi-synthetic multigrade AeroShell Oil W 15W-50.



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Jul 9, 2016, at 8:02 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>I think you mis-read or misunderstood. The + or Lycoming additive is an extreme pressure lube, no more no less. Originally TCP, now some other phosphate compound. It is NOT an anti-corrosive. It was developed to stop the cam failures in cold weather that the O-320H2AD engine was experiencing in the 1977-78 C172s. It plus complete lifter redesign fixed those engines. Only engines in those series require the additive by AD. For the rest it was never needed, and is maybe it does no harm basis.Camguard is anti-corrosive. All Aeroshell have moderate anti-corrosive package, Exxon has more, Camguard a lot more. Phillips has very little.On 7/9/2016 3:35 PM, Miller John wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Miller John <gengrumpy(at)aol.com (gengrumpy(at)aol.com)>Kelly,One of the Aviation Consumer articles a few years back looked at running + with Camguard.  Their article reported little added difference adding the Camguard to the + oil.  The + is an anti-corrosion additive. 	  Quote: 	
		  On Jul 9, 2016, at 3:39 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>Using the the Plus version of Aeroshell is a waste of money If you are using Camguard. The Plus version has the Lycoming additive, which is only needed if you have one of the 76 series (like O-320-H2AD) or E series O-360 that have dual headed magneto. Having more varieties of additives is not a benefit. Either get the straight weight non-Plus, or Phillips XC. 	
	
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Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:07 pm Post subject: Oil and other dark arts

The source is AeroShell and the FAA. Only the + and the 15W-50 are 

approved as meeting the AD requirement for Lycoming or equivalent 

extreme pressure lubricant on the specific Lycoming engines that 

originally had cam problems. The straight AeroShell 100 does not have 

that additive. However, both versions do have an anti-corrosion 

additive, which you get whether you buy the + or the regular.

My comments were directed at what is different about the + version.

It is the meeting the AD requirement for extreme pressure lube. That is 

the only difference regardless of what the ad agency puts out. If you 

don't believe that, ask their retired tech rep Ben Visser. He still 

writes for Gen Aviation News.



On 7/9/2016 6:20 PM, Miller John wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I would appreciate your source on the + composition.  All that I have read says it is an anti-corrosion additive, not wear related a specific engine …..



 Thanks - Grumpy

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

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