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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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 Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:04 pm Post subject: Ducatti R/R deficiencies |
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I took some time to finish an article I started some
years ago explaining my perceptions of thermal management
deficiencies in the Ducatti R/R supplied with Rotax
engines.
http://tinyurl.com/zvkoh4p
If anyone finds that I've stubbed my toe, give
me a heads-up!
I've got another one that speaks to the practical
application of 'filter' capacitors on the output
of rectifier-regulators for PM alternators . . .
but that one will need to wait a bit longer.
Bob . . .
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pestar
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: Ducatti R/R deficiencies |
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Bob
I use a Schicke GR6 see http://www.schicke-electronic.de/dgr3.htm (unfortunately in German) for the reasons you speak off. I have a Rotax 914 and built my plane in France, there their comment was to only allow for a max of 14A out of the Rotax electrical system and then if only the wind was blowing in the right direction..
You can see what Schicke was endeavouring to achieve with their cooling, I do not know how robust their solution is under their potting mixture.
Cheers Peter
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_________________
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New Zealand
DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me  ). |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: Ducatti R/R deficiencies |
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At 04:19 PM 9/6/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "pestar" <peter(at)reivernet.com>
Bob
I use a Schicke GR6 see http://www.schicke-electronic.de/dgr3.htm (unfortunately in German) for the reasons you speak off. I have a Rotax 914 and built my plane in France, there their comment was to only allow for a max of 14A out of the Rotax electrical system and then if only the wind was blowing in the right direction..
You can see what Schicke was endeavouring to achieve with their cooling, I do not know how robust their solution is under their potting mixture. |
It's almost a certainty that this product maximizes
benefits of that very robust heat sink by bolting
the 'hot stuff' right to the metal.
Schicke and Silent-Hektik are probably only
two of many folks who have slain the R/R
dragon. Thanks for the heads-up on this product!
Bob . . .
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rv10pro(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:34 pm Post subject: Ducatti R/R deficiencies |
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Thank you for the clarity and depth of description. With ROTAX planning to roll out the 915iS with the Garrett Turbocharger much like their 914, additional heat is exactly the issued needed to be addressed by Airframe designers. They are quoting over two dozen manufacturers planning on using the new product when released. My question to them, still using 20 year old technology with these Ducati parts?
As always, your perspective makes this discussion more "On Point" and valued.
John Cox
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 2:02 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
I took some time to finish an article I started some
years ago explaining my perceptions of thermal management
deficiencies in the Ducatti R/R supplied with Rotax
engines.
http://tinyurl.com/zvkoh4p
If anyone finds that I've stubbed my toe, give
me a heads-up!
I've got another one that speaks to the practical
application of 'filter' capacitors on the output
of rectifier-regulators for PM alternators . . .
but that one will need to wait a bit longer.
Bob . . .
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MMiller
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:36 pm Post subject: Re: Ducatti R/R deficiencies |
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Bob,
You have a few misconceptions about the Rotax regulator. All the power components are screwed to the case, heatsink compound is used. Rotax does not depend on the potting compound for heatsinking the power components. In your photo, item 1 and 2 are SCRs (MCR16N). Item 3 is a MOSFET to drive the fault lamp. The power diodes (button case) are not shown, they would attach between the plate on the left side and the two leads on the lower left side of the PCB. This version is obsolete since late 2009.
I posted these links back in July, I guess you missed my post and conclusions.
The older pre 2010 regulator
Here a is a PDF schematic/assy for this version
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByPxADyU-DwPdTQ3NWp5LW9iOHc
Typical failure mode PDF
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByPxADyU-DwPTnlXcUVEQTdfcVU
Current production since 2010.
Here is a PDF schematic/assy for this version
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByPxADyU-DwPWTBBcGlUeENTcHc
Here are some failure PDF photos
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByPxADyU-DwPYm1rYUVsbUJyQ3M
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:02 am Post subject: Ducatti R/R deficiencies |
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At 06:36 PM 9/7/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "MMiller" <mmill(at)optonline.net>
Bob,
You have a few misconceptions about the Rotax regulator. All the power components are screwed to the case, heatsink compound is used. Rotax does not depend on the potting compound for heatsinking the power components. In your photo, item 1 and 2 are SCRs (MCR16N). Item 3 is a MOSFET to drive the fault lamp. The power diodes (button case) are not shown, they would attach between the plate on the left side and the two leads on the lower left side of the PCB. This version is obsolete since late 2009. |
Interesting! Yes I missed that. This EMT studies
thing has been a profound distraction.
Dave had alluded to solder problems
with the design as well. I'm a bit amazed by your
findings . . . solder? Gee . . . soldering is as
generic to electronics manufacturing as water
is to fish. Yet the problems you've identified
suggest that some of Ducatti's fish are flopping
around on the bank.
It's unfortunate that Silent-Hektik is not more
widely distributed. I had one in my shop to
evaluate (but didn't have access to the drive
stand). Nonetheless, it exudes an air of
quality.
I've got a customer project to get off the bench
this week and then I'll finish up my drive stand
for pad-driven alternators. The machine work
for the proof of concept package I posted a
few days ago is done, I'll pick up the parts
in Wichita today or tomorrow.
This really isn't rocket science. It's like
baking a cake . . . there are benefits to be
secured by following time-tested recipes
for success. We'll get some real numbers off
of a R/R fabricated from robust parts intimately
acquainted with capable heat-sinking . . . assembled
with Kester 63/37 solder!
Thanks for sharing your discoveries . . .
Bob . . .
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