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rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
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 Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:23 am Post subject: Cold Starts |
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Happy Turkey Hangover Day!
For those of us not blessed to be within a latitude line of the equator, what is the preferred method for cold-weather starting an M-14P? I know most cold motors will take a lot of priming, but I get the eebee-geebee's when it comes to fuel puddling in the lower cylinders. I religiously pop my cylinder drain valve and pull the prop through 18 blades or so prior to saddling up. And I have the adhesive "pad-type" heaters on the sump, oil tank and oil cooler - operating them several hours before I open the big door. I really don't want to take a forced 5 month vacation from Yak'ing, and I know these aircraft were designed to operate in some harsh climates. What works for you guys?
Thanks!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1969 Cessna 150J ^/---//-X
N61333G // Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
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dabear
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Warrenton, VA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:50 am Post subject: Cold Starts |
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With the heat pads, and a blanket covering the cowl, I typically see Cyl temps in the 45-55deg F range prior to taking the cover off. If that is the case, I'll pre-flight in the hangar, and pull the prop through just before opening the door. Then move the plane out and be ready to start quickly. Since the oil AND the Cyl are actually warm then I'll just add an extra shot of prime or two (no more than 2) and start as normal. Worked for me in Chicago winters and the occasionally cold DC winters. Going to be difficult if the Cyl temps are below 40 and then engine is cold soaked. I'd pre-heat. I don't like adding anymore prime than that. I also don't like starting with oil temps lower than 40 hence the pre-heat or "heat pads"
Bear.
On 11/28/2016 9:22 AM, Rico Jaeger wrote:
| Quote: |
Happy Turkey Hangover Day!
For those of us not blessed to be within a latitude line of the equator, what is the preferred method for cold-weather starting an M-14P? I know most cold motors will take a lot of priming, but I get the eebee-geebee's when it comes to fuel puddling in the lower cylinders. I religiously pop my cylinder drain valve and pull the prop through 18 blades or so prior to saddling up. And I have the adhesive "pad-type" heaters on the sump, oil tank and oil cooler - operating them several hours before I open the big door. I really don't want to take a forced 5 month vacation from Yak'ing, and I know these aircraft were designed to operate in some harsh climates. What works for you guys?
Thanks!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1969 Cessna 150J ^/---//-X
N61333G // Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
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rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:08 am Post subject: Cold Starts |
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So how many shots of prime total? (Cyl & Carb)
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150J ^/---//-X
N61333G // Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of DaBear(at)damned.org <dabear(at)damned.org>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 8:49:52 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Cold Starts
With the heat pads, and a blanket covering the cowl, I typically see Cyl temps in the 45-55deg F range prior to taking the cover off. If that is the case, I'll pre-flight in the hangar, and pull the prop through just before opening the door. Then move the plane out and be ready to start quickly. Since the oil AND the Cyl are actually warm then I'll just add an extra shot of prime or two (no more than 2) and start as normal. Worked for me in Chicago winters and the occasionally cold DC winters. Going to be difficult if the Cyl temps are below 40 and then engine is cold soaked. I'd pre-heat. I don't like adding anymore prime than that. I also don't like starting with oil temps lower than 40 hence the pre-heat or "heat pads"
Bear.
On 11/28/2016 9:22 AM, Rico Jaeger wrote:
| Quote: |
Happy Turkey Hangover Day!
For those of us not blessed to be within a latitude line of the equator, what is the preferred method for cold-weather starting an M-14P? I know most cold motors will take a lot of priming, but I get the eebee-geebee's when it comes to fuel puddling in the lower cylinders. I religiously pop my cylinder drain valve and pull the prop through 18 blades or so prior to saddling up. And I have the adhesive "pad-type" heaters on the sump, oil tank and oil cooler - operating them several hours before I open the big door. I really don't want to take a forced 5 month vacation from Yak'ing, and I know these aircraft were designed to operate in some harsh climates. What works for you guys?
Thanks!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1969 Cessna 150J ^/---//-X
N61333G // Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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dabear
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 92
Location: Warrenton, VA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:49 am Post subject: Cold Starts |
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What I've found is that each airplane is different because of carb and other settings. What works for you on a normal first start of the day should work here with 1-2 more shots of prime. Remember that the pump handle pressurizes the fuel line on one side and primes on the other.
So a 60deg F eng on first start, I'd prime 3 times after pressurizing the fuel system. 50 deg 4 times, 40 deg 5 times. Below 40-45 I'd pre heat the engine and oil up to a higher temp. Once I figured out how to start the engine (early ownership of the 52 or CJ with M14P), I could get it to start in 1-3 blades. If it didn't catch, I did something wrong and would reset the start. Just my humble opinion.
Bear
On 11/28/2016 10:08 AM, Rico Jaeger wrote:
| Quote: |
So how many shots of prime total? (Cyl & Carb)
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150J ^/---//-X
N61333G // Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) on behalf of DaBear(at)damned.org (DaBear(at)damned.org) <dabear(at)damned.org> (dabear(at)damned.org)
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 8:49:52 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Cold Starts
With the heat pads, and a blanket covering the cowl, I typically see Cyl temps in the 45-55deg F range prior to taking the cover off. If that is the case, I'll pre-flight in the hangar, and pull the prop through just before opening the door. Then move the plane out and be ready to start quickly. Since the oil AND the Cyl are actually warm then I'll just add an extra shot of prime or two (no more than 2) and start as normal. Worked for me in Chicago winters and the occasionally cold DC winters. Going to be difficult if the Cyl temps are below 40 and then engine is cold soaked. I'd pre-heat. I don't like adding anymore prime than that. I also don't like starting with oil temps lower than 40 hence the pre-heat or "heat pads"
Bear.
On 11/28/2016 9:22 AM, Rico Jaeger wrote:
| Quote: |
Happy Turkey Hangover Day!
For those of us not blessed to be within a latitude line of the equator, what is the preferred method for cold-weather starting an M-14P? I know most cold motors will take a lot of priming, but I get the eebee-geebee's when it comes to fuel puddling in the lower cylinders. I religiously pop my cylinder drain valve and pull the prop through 18 blades or so prior to saddling up. And I have the adhesive "pad-type" heaters on the sump, oil tank and oil cooler - operating them several hours before I open the big door. I really don't want to take a forced 5 month vacation from Yak'ing, and I know these aircraft were designed to operate in some harsh climates. What works for you guys?
Thanks!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1969 Cessna 150J ^/---//-X
N61333G // Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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markdavis(at)wbsnet.org
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 9:23 am Post subject: Cold Starts |
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Cold starts below 40 degrees, for my YAK (seems like many use different starting techniques), pull through minimum of 12 blades (two bladed prop) with intake drain open, prime six strokes, get out pull it through a few more blades (dilutes thick oil on cylinder walls, makes engine turn through easier and atomizes/distributes the cold fuel in the cylinder), drain intake drain again, get in, one or two more strokes of prime (cylinders), pressurize fuel system until you see the pressure gauge come off the peg, pump throttle to verify linkage feels proper, hit start button. If it doesn't in one to two blades, stop, prime again and repeat. Mine, if it fires, doesn't need additional strokes of prime, but many do to keep it running. I also run X/C 25W50 vs. Aero 120 for the cold weather starts. 25W60 is damn sticky cold soaked, Aero 120 is nearly solid if preheat not available. If your dilution system is operable, mine isn't, consider reading up on its proper use.
Fly Navy,
Mark Davis
N44YK
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DaBear(at)damned.org
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 8:49 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Cold Starts
What I've found is that each airplane is different because of carb and other settings. What works for you on a normal first start of the day should work here with 1-2 more shots of prime. Remember that the pump handle pressurizes the fuel line on one side and primes on the other.
So a 60deg F eng on first start, I'd prime 3 times after pressurizing the fuel system. 50 deg 4 times, 40 deg 5 times. Below 40-45 I'd pre heat the engine and oil up to a higher temp. Once I figured out how to start the engine (early ownership of the 52 or CJ with M14P), I could get it to start in 1-3 blades. If it didn't catch, I did something wrong and would reset the start. Just my humble opinion.
Bear
On 11/28/2016 10:08 AM, Rico Jaeger wrote:
| Quote: |
So how many shots of prime total? (Cyl & Carb)
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150J ^/---//-X
N61333G //
Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) on behalf of DaBear(at)damned.org (DaBear(at)damned.org) <dabear(at)damned.org> (dabear(at)damned.org)
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 8:49:52 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Cold Starts
With the heat pads, and a blanket covering the cowl, I typically see Cyl temps in the 45-55deg F range prior to taking the cover off. If that is the case, I'll pre-flight in the hangar, and pull the prop through just before opening the door. Then move the plane out and be ready to start quickly. Since the oil AND the Cyl are actually warm then I'll just add an extra shot of prime or two (no more than 2) and start as normal. Worked for me in Chicago winters and the occasionally cold DC winters. Going to be difficult if the Cyl temps are below 40 and then engine is cold soaked. I'd pre-heat. I don't like adding anymore prime than that. I also don't like starting with oil temps lower than 40 hence the pre-heat or "heat pads"
Bear.
On 11/28/2016 9:22 AM, Rico Jaeger wrote:
| Quote: |
Happy Turkey Hangover Day!
For those of us not blessed to be within a latitude line of the equator, what is the preferred method for cold-weather starting an M-14P? I know most cold motors will take a lot of priming, but I get the eebee-geebee's when it comes to fuel puddling in the lower cylinders. I religiously pop my cylinder drain valve and pull the prop through 18 blades or so prior to saddling up. And I have the adhesive "pad-type" heaters on the sump, oil tank and oil cooler - operating them several hours before I open the big door. I really don't want to take a forced 5 month vacation from Yak'ing, and I know these aircraft were designed to operate in some harsh climates. What works for you guys?
Thanks!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1969 Cessna 150J ^/---//-X
N61333G //
Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
|
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:42 pm Post subject: Cold Starts |
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Thanks, Guys! That helps!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150F ^/---//-X
N8558G //
Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
________________________________
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Mark Davis <markdavis(at)wbsnet.org>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 11:22:57 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Cold Starts
Cold starts below 40 degrees, for my YAK (seems like many use different starting techniques), pull through minimum of 12 blades (two bladed prop) with intake drain open, prime six strokes, get out pull it through a few more blades (dilutes thick oil on cylinder walls, makes engine turn through easier and atomizes/distributes the cold fuel in the cylinder), drain intake drain again, get in, one or two more strokes of prime (cylinders), pressurize fuel system until you see the pressure gauge come off the peg, pump throttle to verify linkage feels proper, hit start button. If it doesn't in one to two blades, stop, prime again and repeat. Mine, if it fires, doesn't need additional strokes of prime, but many do to keep it running. I also run X/C 25W50 vs. Aero 120 for the cold weather starts. 25W60 is damn sticky cold soaked, Aero 120 is nearly solid if preheat not available. If your dilution system is operable, mine isn't, consider reading up on its proper use
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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yakman285(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:06 pm Post subject: Cold Starts |
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Having operated my M-14P powered CJ up in Illinois before discovering the Ultimate Solution to cold starts (Move to Florida). I learned that the next best thing to moving is a Heated Hanger. Worth the money. Not only is the whole airplane warm, but by virtue of being warm, problems like ice in hard to see places is eliminated.
Even with a heated hanger, the airplane still needs to be winterized with the idle richened, and idle adjusted. Install a winter cover plate for the oil cooler air intake. seal up holes and cracks in the cylinder baffling. Use WD-40 on things like the Carb Heat door shaft, brake cables, etc.
Slush on the runway, introduces dirt into the brakes and landing gear. Keep clean after use. Squirt with WD-40 after cleaning.
Do not forget that MMO! Keeps the "inards" loose and Cures cancers, arthritis, etc...
Craig Payne
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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csprjm(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject: Cold Starts |
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Craig. I am going to take up your cold solution moving to villages next year. Send me your contact info. John Casper. Thud.
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Nov 29, 2016, at 6:05 PM, Craig Payne <yakman285(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Having operated my M-14P powered CJ up in Illinois before discovering the Ultimate Solution to cold starts (Move to Florida). I learned that the next best thing to moving is a Heated Hanger. Worth the money. Not only is the whole airplane warm, but by virtue of being warm, problems like ice in hard to see places is eliminated.
Even with a heated hanger, the airplane still needs to be winterized with the idle richened, and idle adjusted. Install a winter cover plate for the oil cooler air intake. seal up holes and cracks in the cylinder baffling. Use WD-40 on things like the Carb Heat door shaft, brake cables, etc.
Slush on the runway, introduces dirt into the brakes and landing gear. Keep clean after use. Squirt with WD-40 after cleaning.
Do not forget that MMO! Keeps the "inards" loose and Cures cancers, arthritis, etc...
Craig Payne
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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Viperdoc
Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: 08A
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:31 pm Post subject: Cold Starts |
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The RU manual calls for in summertime, pumps 5 to 6 fuel injections and in wintertime, 8 - 12 fuel injections, through the injection pump set in the ' Cylinders supply' position while the mechanic ' rotates the propeller."
Warning! When the engine is still cold, the propeller rotation is compulsory; when it is warm the rotation is forbidden. 3.4.1. Page 23.
Since most of us do not have ground crew to pull blades while we prime this is what works for me. Clear oil collected in lower cylinders by pulling 14 to 16 blades.(great exercise to get blood flowing and deep breathing). Prime 5-6 pumps on cylinder side then jump out and pull four blades stopping on a compression stroke. Climb back in and start her up.
Sent from my iPad
On Nov 28, 2016, at 9:08 AM, Rico Jaeger <rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com (rocknpilot(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
So how many shots of prime total? (Cyl & Carb)
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1966 Cessna 150J ^/---//-X
N61333G // Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)> on behalf of DaBear(at)damned.org (DaBear(at)damned.org) <dabear(at)damned.org (dabear(at)damned.org)>
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2016 8:49:52 AM
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Cold Starts
With the heat pads, and a blanket covering the cowl, I typically see Cyl temps in the 45-55deg F range prior to taking the cover off. If that is the case, I'll pre-flight in the hangar, and pull the prop through just before opening the door. Then move the plane out and be ready to start quickly. Since the oil AND the Cyl are actually warm then I'll just add an extra shot of prime or two (no more than 2) and start as normal. Worked for me in Chicago winters and the occasionally cold DC winters. Going to be difficult if the Cyl temps are below 40 and then engine is cold soaked. I'd pre-heat. I don't like adding anymore prime than that. I also don't like starting with oil temps lower than 40 hence the pre-heat or "heat pads"
Bear.
On 11/28/2016 9:22 AM, Rico Jaeger wrote:
| Quote: |
Happy Turkey Hangover Day!
For those of us not blessed to be within a latitude line of the equator, what is the preferred method for cold-weather starting an M-14P? I know most cold motors will take a lot of priming, but I get the eebee-geebee's when it comes to fuel puddling in the lower cylinders. I religiously pop my cylinder drain valve and pull the prop through 18 blades or so prior to saddling up. And I have the adhesive "pad-type" heaters on the sump, oil tank and oil cooler - operating them several hours before I open the big door. I really don't want to take a forced 5 month vacation from Yak'ing, and I know these aircraft were designed to operate in some harsh climates. What works for you guys?
Thanks!
Rico Jaeger
915 S. 11th Ave.
Wausau, WI. 54401
715.529.7426
//
1969 Cessna 150J ^/---//-X
N61333G // Hangar #35 / AUW
//
1992 Yakovlev Yak 52 ^/---//-X
N21YK //
Hangar #21 / AUW
|
|
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
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