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gnhiggins(at)bigpond.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject: mono to trigear conversion |
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Has anyone who has done the mono to trigear conversion had cause to
regret doing it?
I understand the weight and speed penalties, and cost, but am interested
in opinions re improved ground handling, especially landings, cross wind
limits etc.
Did the benefits outweigh the angst?
How long and difficult is the task?
Are there any other hidden downsides?
regards all Graham Higgins in Oz. #261
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rlborger(at)mac.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:51 pm Post subject: mono to trigear conversion |
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Graham,
In Texas we have WIND and lots of it. And it switches around without any warning. I have no choice but to land on hard surface as there aren’t any turf runways within 90-120 minutes drive. The mono on turf is a pussy cat. On hard surface with any crosswind component over 20 kts you have no control below 35 kts indicated. The rudder of the Europa looses effect below 35 kts. I simply became tired of being blown off the runway by 25 - 35 knot crosswinds. Had to return my airmaster prop hub to New Zealand twice for a rebuild and new blades. After the second time, I figured it was time to convert to tri-gear.
At least here in Texas, the benefits of not having to worry about crosswinds far outweighs the benefits of the mono. I loved my aircraft as a mono as long as it was in the air and the crosswind component didn’t exceed 25 kts. But in over half my flights I ended up coming back to some strong crosswind and being blown off the runway again. It’s embarrassing and, when you take out the prop, bloody expensive!
I took the aircraft to Bud Yerly in Florida for assistance in the conversion. It wasn’t “difficult” for him as he has done a couple dozen of them. Took us two weeks at his place to complete the conversion and repair the outrigger damage to the wings. I also took the engine to Lockwood Aviation in Sebring for a prop-strike exam, which it passed with flying colors thanks to the slipper clutch. It was another couple months of part-time work at home to finish the job. That was brake plumbing, mounting the finger brakes, rebuilding the console for the electric flaps and closing the hole for the landing gear lever. Also have to make a panel to cover the mono-hole in the belly.
After the rebuild was complete I had to do weight & balance again. The aircraft was now heavy enough that a serious weight reduction program was necessary. The first thing to go was a very nice panel of Garmin avionics. When I weighed it after I removed it the whole thing weighed 50lbs. The next thing to go was the six-pack of large gyro instruments. That was another 20+ lbs out. Other stuff went as well. When it was all out, I had removed close to 80 lbs. It was all replaced with an EFIS that weighs about 2 1/2 lbs and Microair radio & transponder at a bit over a pound each. Now the weight & balance is back to where it was so I can carry the wife, myself, full fuel and almost 80 lbs of baggage.
Downside is that the tri-gear is slower and, therefore, doesn’t get quite as good gas mileage. But that pretty minor compared to not having to worry about what the wind will be doing when you get home. It’s still off the ground quickly and climbs at 1000+ ft/min. I guess another downside is having to worry about three tires wear and pressure instead of just one. Again, pretty minor.
I have a folder of photos I took during the conversion. I’d be happy to post them to DropBox if you’d like to download them. Warning, it would be a massive download. I guess I could also copy them to DVD and post them to you if you wish.
There is a fairly complete annotated sub-set of those photos available at EuropaOwners.org. Go to my album (N914XL) and you should see the sub-album for the Tri-Gear Conversion.
If you have any further questions don’t hesitate to ask.
Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Feb 13, 2017, at 2:40 PM, Graham Higgins <gnhiggins(at)bigpond.com (gnhiggins(at)bigpond.com)> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Higgins <gnhiggins(at)bigpond.com (gnhiggins(at)bigpond.com)>Has anyone who has done the mono to trigear conversion had cause to regret doing it?I understand the weight and speed penalties, and cost, but am interested in opinions re improved ground handling, especially landings, cross wind limits etc.Did the benefits outweigh the angst?How long and difficult is the task?Are there any other hidden downsides?regards all Graham Higgins in Oz. #261
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dpark748(at)icloud.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: mono to trigear conversion |
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Hi Graham,
I built the Mono G-LDVO as i was looking for efficiency and speed for touring which is what the Mono excels at.
I converted my Mono to Trike after a near crosswind event which almost took my prop - Airmaster!!
I compromised on the speed, only a few Knots and efficiency, a little more significant as weight now 906lbs.
Ground handling is simple, crosswinds can be handled with a confidence i didn't have with the Mono. Doing longer touring trips its nice to know i can handle crosswinds safely wherever i end up without getting stranded with a bent prop or worse.
Maintenance is easier as removing wings leaves the fuselage standing without extra support.
The conversion is straight forward. The nose wheel leg is easily done, i used springs instead of bungee.
The main legs need careful jigging on a secured fuselage. This is the biggest job and needs two people peeping fibreglass and resin and applying. I had the help of Neville Eyre who did most of the install of the main legs. I would recommend you get someone with similar experience to help.
Upside--- A novice could fly the Trike with confidence. Resale value!!
Easy the maintain.
I still cruise at 120kts at 24" one up.
Downside--- Weight - load carrying capacity.
If i was building another it would be a Mono to retain efficiency. But that is a personal choice.
Best Regards
Dave Park
Dave Park
Quote: | On 13 Feb 2017, at 20:40, Graham Higgins <gnhiggins(at)bigpond.com> wrote:
Has anyone who has done the mono to trigear conversion had cause to regret doing it?
I understand the weight and speed penalties, and cost, but am interested in opinions re improved ground handling, especially landings, cross wind limits etc.
Did the benefits outweigh the angst?
How long and difficult is the task?
Are there any other hidden downsides?
regards all Graham Higgins in Oz. #261
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ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk Guest
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: mono to trigear conversion |
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Hi! Graham,
I have no intent to stir up a third world war of for and against but ....
I originally built G-PTAG with both facilities to be Trike first and changeable to mono as a convertible with a minimal amount of work.
That was to allow a reasonable period as trike on which to learn to fly and change it over later.
It now will NEVER fly as a Mono. I just can't imagine flying over great distances across which there is many weather changes and to have the thought of a difficult landing at the end of it seems to detract from the overall enjoyment. I have landed my trike in a 35 knot cross wind at Marehamn with trees port side. The Differential braking assists the instinctive direction control. I haven’t considered any other disadvantages!
Regards
Bob Harrison.
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clivesutton
Joined: 23 Jan 2013 Posts: 187 Location: KENILWORTH
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:48 am Post subject: Re: mono to trigear conversion |
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Hello Bob - i am particularly interested in your comments about the configurable UC on G-PTAG. Does it follow that for a few hours of work (and possibly a re-weigh/inspection) G-PTAG can still be configured as either? And your comments about never flying again as a mono - could you clarify: it cannot ever fly again as a mono (due to weight etc), or that YOU would never fly it again as a mono? I guess that configuring the a/c for both UC types would come with a weight penalty - do you have an idea of what that penalty would be? Finally, did you have an issues with the bonded-in frame in the tunnel re: accommodating both UC configurations? Please let me know Clive S G-YETI, 99% complete
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Scudrunner
Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Posts: 26
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:17 am Post subject: Re: mono to trigear conversion |
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I've always assumed that you "need" at least the 912S for a trigear? The 80hp UL just not man enough to overcome the increased rolling resistance on take off?
I'm talking typical UK 500m grass farm strip here, not 2000m of paved US municipal airport!
(80HP, mono classic)
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JonathanMilbank
Joined: 14 Apr 2012 Posts: 391 Location: Aberdeen area
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:40 am Post subject: Re: mono to trigear conversion |
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Do it! After more than 15 years with the mono and having seen two friends who share my aircraft lose directional control on landing, ground-looping and damaging the Airmaster prop which twice had to be sent to NZ for inspection and new blades, I got the conversion to tri-gear done 3 years ago.
The reduction in stress for all in our group was palpable. No more worries about changes in wind direction when operating from tar runways. Bliss!!!
I have over 1000 hours of my 21.5k hours flying career in Piper Cub, Harvard (AT6 Texan) and including about 650 hours in my Europa as a mono. If it had been fitted with conventional t/w undercarriage with differential brakes, I'd never have decided to convert to tri-gear.
Very soon after the u/c conversion it became apparent that 80hp wasn't enough to overcome grass safely on a calm or light wind day and heavy. Swapping to the 912S does the trick and I would recommend a set of Nev Eyre's cowls for their excellent cooling. He also provides a superb engine bearer frame which is simpler and stronger than the XS version, which needs both the Rotax ring bearer and an intermediate frame to connect to the undercarriage frame.
I solemnly promise that you won't regret doing it.
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Posts: 334 Location: EDLE
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:43 am Post subject: Re: mono to trigear conversion |
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With my average flying skills I didn't even consider to buy a Monowheel after Andy Draper took me up for a ride in the factory demonstrator G-GBXS.
However I also didn't even consider building one either with my less than average mechanical skills.
I just enjoy flying my Trigear and can well live with the little shortcomings in weight and speed
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914 (which started its life as a Mono in Perranporth)
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ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net Guest
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:05 pm Post subject: mono to trigear conversion |
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Hi! Clive/all
G-PTAG has never flown as a mono. The insurance claims for ground loopers
are a serious indicator to take notice of. Any weight increase for the
combined issues are not an issue since the mono wheel is replaced by the
nose wheel gear with a forward C of G anyway . OK the overall weight is
increased but I have a long range tank with 9 gallons making my max
passenger seat load only 39 lbs. The aircraft handles that when flown with
respect. The flap drive is by motor switch but the outrigger machinery /push
rods are removed. The main running gear sockets are glassed into
strengthening plywood cruciforms and the fuselage needs suspended over a
quide angle iron against which the axle stubs are clamped.
The whole assembly strengthens the design of the fuselage just aft of the
overlapping wing spars.
It easy to get too much toe in on the axle stubs which once set can not be
corrected committing to excessive tyre wear to make your eyes water. The
setting up procedure does not seem to allow for loaded deflections so that
when loaded the toe in corrects but as landing is effected the outside of
the wheels are first to skid contact. The tyres need to be watched and
turned round to get efficient tyre wear. Of course to be able to land on
grass always improves this issue .
The flap extension indicator is ideally sorted by a transfer attached to the
wing and flap viewable over the pilots left shoulder.
I'm sorry but haven't further time to discuss these pro's and con's.
Other than to say "go for it" you won't regret it IMHO . (there's those who
have done ground loops and those who have yet to do it on mono )
Regards
Bob Harrison.
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Jim Kelly
Joined: 25 Jan 2014 Posts: 70 Location: England
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Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:47 am Post subject: mono to trigear conversion |
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May I Suggest that the 912 UL certainly performs well with my taildragger on take off. Compare the rolling resistance of the rather low tyre pressure on the mono against the much higher pressures of a trike or taildragger !!!
On 14 Feb 2017 5:22 p.m., "Scudrunner" <howardbrooksster(at)gmail.com (howardbrooksster(at)gmail.com)> wrote: Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Scudrunner" <howardbrooksster(at)gmail.com (howardbrooksster(at)gmail.com)>
I've always assumed that you "need" at least the 912S for a trigear? The 80hp UL just not man enough to overcome the increased rolling resistance on take off?
I'm talking typical UK 500m grass farm strip here, not 2000m of paved US municipal airport!
(80HP, mono classic)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466177#466177
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JonSmith
Joined: 21 May 2010 Posts: 110
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:42 am Post subject: Re: mono to trigear conversion |
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ptag.dev(at)talktalk.net wrote: | Hi! Clive/all
G-PTAG has never flown as a mono. The insurance claims for ground loopers
are a serious indicator to take notice of.
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But I'm sure there has been the, errr, odd insurance claim too where a trike's nosewheel has detached at a certain point thus trashing the nose leg, cowling, prop and engine........
All variants of the Europa are delightful aircraft including the trike. However although I don't continually slag them off I wouldn't want a trike for myself, personal choice. I love my mono.....! ![Very Happy](images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif)
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_________________ G-TERN
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pete(at)lawless.info Guest
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Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:51 am Post subject: mono to trigear conversion |
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Well that makes two of us!
Pete
G-RMAC Classic mono #109
On 16/02/17 08:42, JonSmith wrote:
Quote: | But I'm sure there has been the, errr, odd insurance claim too where a trike's nosewheel has detached at a certain point thus trashing the nose leg, cowling, prop and engine........
All variants of the Europa are delightful aircraft including the trike. However although I don't continually slag them off I wouldn't want a trike for myself, personal choice. I love my mono.....!
--------
G-TERN
Classic Mono
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