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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject: ELT

Does anyone have a firm recommendation for an ELT that is light and has its own GPS?



Many thanks

Will

italianjon

Joined: 05 Aug 2015
Posts: 68

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:29 am Post subject: Re: ELT

Hi Will,



I just went through this exercise.



I settled on the Kannad 406. It's not the cheapest but the reliability data won me over.



With the whip antenna you can install it within the fuzz so there's no sticking out bits adding drag.



Best



Jon

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:48 am Post subject: ELT

Excellent thanks



William Daniell

LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744

On Oct 24, 2017 3:33 AM, "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Hi Will,

 

 I just went through this exercise.

 

 I settled on the Kannad 406. It's not the cheapest but the reliability data won me over.

 

 With the whip antenna you can install it within the fuzz so there's no sticking out bits adding drag.

 

 Best

 

 Jon

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473834#473834

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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Ivor

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 51

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: Re: ELT

And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft, 

If you have a PLB  clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely 

Just my two pennies worth!

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:30 am Post subject: ELT

Hmmm thanks the very same thought had occurred to me.



In Colombia I am not required to have anti collision or navigation lights or an ELT.Â  However I plan to re register my aircraft in the USA when I get there and so I am getting ready for compliance in the USA where both are required, as I understand it.

Also I haven't decided on my route.Â  Essentially there are or were three options.

1.Â  Right:Â  Over venezuela to trinidad and then up the islands.Â  Until venezuela began suffering "issues"Â  this was the preferred route.Â  Both relatively quick and fun.Â 

2.Â  Middle:Â  BOG Santa Marta, Curacao, Santo Domingo.Â  This is 350nm over sea.Â  Fast but 350 miles over the sea....hmmmm

3.Â  Left - up Central America.Â  Â  This has 100m over the Darien Gap which is tall jungle.Â  to Ditch in the jungle is probably as dangerous if not more so than sea.Â  So I figure an ELT might be useful in this case.

I am researching....



William Daniell

LONGPORT

+57 310 295 0744



On Oct 24, 2017 11:22 AM, "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk (g-iver(at)live.co.uk)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk (g-iver(at)live.co.uk)>

 

 And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft,

 If you have a PLBÂ  clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely

 Just my two pennies worth!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473836#473836

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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 WIKI -

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Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:37 am Post subject: ELT

â€¦Iâ€™d prefer to ditch the ELT system than to ditch the aircraft...pity the regulators are stuck in yesterday's low-techâ€¦I'd vote for a publicly-supported â€œbread crumbsâ€ monitoring systemâ€¦



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 24, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Ivor <g-iver(at)live.co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft, 

 If you have a PLB  clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely 

 Just my two pennies worth!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473836#473836

Fred Klein

Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Posts: 503

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:43 am Post subject: ELT

â€¦Iâ€™d prefer to ditch the ELT system than to ditch the aircraft...pity the regulators are stuck in yesterday's low-techâ€¦I'd vote for a publicly-supported â€œbread crumbsâ€ monitoring systemâ€¦



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 24, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Ivor <g-iver(at)live.co.uk> wrote:

 

 

 

 And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft, 

 If you have a PLB  clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely 

 Just my two pennies worth!

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473836#473836

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject: ELT

Hello Ivor,     

how about have them both?     Cheers, Raimo Toivio

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:12 pm Post subject: ELT

I concur Fred,



I fly with the iridium delorme (now garmin) tracker/texting/plb and it works great (anywhere in the world). I also strap on a very small plb on my leg in case i need to bail 



Who needs elt's that typically break their antennas in serious crashes anyway?

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Oct 24, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 â€¦Iâ€™d prefer to ditch the ELT system than to ditch the aircraft...pity the regulators are stuck in yesterday's low-techâ€¦I'd vote for a publicly-supported â€œbread crumbsâ€ monitoring systemâ€¦

 

> On Oct 24, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Ivor <g-iver(at)live.co.uk> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft, 

> If you have a PLB  clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely 

> Just my two pennies worth!

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473836#473836

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:07 pm Post subject: ELT

But arent elt obligatory in the usa?Will

On Oct 24, 2017 20:15, "Pete" <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)>

 

 I concur Fred,

 

 I fly with the iridium delorme (now garmin) tracker/texting/plb and it works great (anywhere in the world). I also strap on a very small plb on my leg in case i need to bail 

 

 Who needs elt's that typically break their antennas in serious crashes anyway?

 

 

 > On Oct 24, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)> wrote:

 >

 > --> Europa-List message posted by: Fred Klein <fklein(at)orcasonline.com (fklein(at)orcasonline.com)>

 >

 > â€¦Iâ€™d prefer to ditch the ELT system than to ditch the aircraft...pity the regulators are stuck in yesterday's low-techâ€¦I'd vote for a publicly-supported â€œbread crumbsâ€ monitoring systemâ€¦

 >

 >> On Oct 24, 2017, at 9:14 AM, Ivor <g-iver(at)live.co.uk (g-iver(at)live.co.uk)> wrote:

 >>

 >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk (g-iver(at)live.co.uk)>

 >>

 >> And if you are really unlucky and ditch in the sea the ELT goes down with aircraft,

 >> If you have a PLBÂ  clipped to you and it could make your survival more likely

 >> Just my two pennies worth!

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >> Read this topic online here:

 >>

 >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473836#473836

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >>

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 

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 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 WIKI -

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Ivor

Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 51

Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:47 am Post subject: Re: ELT

 	  raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi wrote: 	
		  Hello Ivor,     

how about have them both?     Cheers, Raimo Toivio 	


Hi Raimo

absolutely no problem having both except cost and additional weight,

If the regulations allow an PLB instead of an ELT that's the way i would go.



Cheers



Ivor

pestar

Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: ELT

Have a look at Emerging Lifesaving Technologies 406 ELT with internal GPS.  this what I used for my MCR-4S.   It does not have a whip antenna but a blade antenna so is less likely to be snapped off in an accident.  This blade antenna also works in the 90 degree and 180 degree azimuth as aeroplanes do not necessarily land the correct way up in an accident.  A whip antenna will not do this.



Aircraft spruce have them; http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/aircraftspruceelt.php .  I researched all available ELT's with GPS and chose this one.



Cheers Peter

_________________
Peter Armstrong
Auckland, New Zealand
DynAero MCR-4S (Do not shoot me Smile

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241

Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: ELT

I like the thumbnail of Peter's panel - almost IMAX standards of presentation!! 



Seriously, l also chose the Kannad 406 ELT with an external blade antenna matched to it by ADAMS.  I still have the whip antenna if somebody wants it.



It uses a remote switch on the panel, sits under the baggage bay on the P2 side.  It gets cycled each year as part of the Europa XS pre-permit maintenance and has, so far (6-7 years) proven to be 100% reliable.



I also carry a PLB in y flight bag.



Regards

John

_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:06 am Post subject: ELT

Ivor,



cost for PLB is really marginal as well as itÂ´s weight



(take same weight away from you by leaving every-week-hamburger off so 

no weight penalty and you save money for PLB in a year).



Notice you may carry PLB always omboard - could be a life saver when 

walking from the pub home...



Cheers, Raimo

Ivor kirjoitti 25.10.2017 klo 14:47:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi wrote:

> Hello Ivor,

> how about have them both?     Cheers, Raimo Toivio

 Hi Raimo

 absolutely no problem having both except cost and additional weight,

 If the regulations allow an PLB instead of an ELT that's the way i would go.



 Cheers



 Ivor





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=473854#473854

italianjon

Joined: 05 Aug 2015
Posts: 68

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:30 am Post subject: Re: ELT

Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry. 



For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.



With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.



I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:31 am Post subject: ELT

Hi Jon,     

I do agree.     

One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should       work automatically after your critical impact.     

ItÂ´s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch       on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more       or less panic situation

          

(when trying to survive out from your disaster).     

WhatÂ´s a typical accident? ItÂ´s during take off or landing. If       shit happens then, PLB is useless!     

PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high       up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the       remote     

(thatÂ´s potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically       empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]).     

I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between       Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater       without islands.     

Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69       (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and thatÂ´s why I       have no Turbo), 

          

but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio       (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say       practically about 35 km in theory.     

So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when itÂ´s easy to       monitor your engine and listen strange sounds...     

(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi       music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an       hour).Â  

          

I would like to say:     

ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...     

(isnÂ´t it strange that what older you are, that more you are         thinking things like that, should be vice versa...)     Cheers,

     Raimo

     Finland

     OH-XRT

     The fastest Europa ever build

     (and only 4-seater)

     



                        allekirjoitus        (info(at)rwm.fi)     

     italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo       17:30:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)



Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry. 



For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.



With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.



I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:00 am Post subject: ELT

Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits. 

   Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us  (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section. 

    Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    

Hi Jon, 

I do agree. 

One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically after your critical impact. 

It´s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation 

(when trying to survive out from your disaster). 

What´s a typical accident? It´s during take off or landing. If shit happens then, PLB is useless! 

PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote 

(that´s potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]). 

I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands. 

Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and that´s why I have no Turbo),  

but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory. 

So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when it´s easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds... 

(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).   

I would like to say: 

ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra... 

(isn´t it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like that, should be vice versa...) Cheers, Raimo Finland OH-XRT The fastest Europa ever build (and only 4-seater) 

  

 italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:

  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)



Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry. 



For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.



With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.



I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: ELT

Dear David,     you are right as usually, but however, think about accident     in the remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),

     ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand     that it is not so easy to you to understand there are really     unpopulated places in the world.

     

     Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.

     

     Really, all theÂ  pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!

     

     (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).

     

     For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote     private strip here with my monowheel.

     To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of     meters. They just look, maybe!!!

     Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe     my life! In that case, ELT were superb.

     

     So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one     prop (AirMaster).

     

     David, IÂ´m pretty sure You get it!

     

     Go on! I know you can have your burst!

     

     Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?

     

     ***

     About me /my status:

     

     - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early     2018 *

     - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my     crash one year ago

     - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here     back again.

     - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.

     

     David,

     pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!

       

     Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.

     

     Raimo

     OH-XRT

     Finland

     

      (info(at)rwm.fi)     davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) kirjoitti       1.11.2017 klo 20:58:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         

Â        

Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine         woes are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of         your fascinating flying exploits.       

Â Â  Although there is always great sense in what you say, in         this context I would take a slightly different approach. I would         say there are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of         accident where you walk away from it and don't need much in the         way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your         mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion         either in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is         plenty of that!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of         accident you do not walk away from and very few of those are         survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of usÂ  (i.e. GA         pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely         unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that         possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT         to get help more quickly after the event. There are suggestions         of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club         website in the 'Flying' section.       

Â Â Â  Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ       

Â        Â 

       

On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:        	  Quote: 	
		                    

Hi Jon,         

I do agree.         

One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should           work automatically after your critical impact.         

ItÂ´s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to           switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your           possible more or less panic situation         

(when trying to survive out from your disaster).         

WhatÂ´s a typical accident? ItÂ´s during take off or landing.           If shit happens then, PLB is useless!         

PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the           high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing           to the remote         

(thatÂ´s potential for me, here in Finland, which is           practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just           eat you]).         

I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea           between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open           seawater without islands.         

Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite           FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and thatÂ´s           why I have no Turbo),          

but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio           (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide           say practically about 35 km in theory.         

So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when itÂ´s           easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds...         

(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen           hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say           half an hour).Â           

I would like to say:         

ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra...         

(isnÂ´t it strange             that what older you are, that more you are thinking things             like that, should be vice versa...)         Cheers,

         Raimo

         Finland

         OH-XRT

         The fastest Europa ever build

         (and only 4-seater)

         

Â          

         italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo           17:30:

          	  Quote: 	
		              	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)



Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry. 



For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.



With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.



I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:11 am Post subject: ELT

Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spaces in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable places in the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it doesn't alter the point that there are few landings where you are not either dead or able to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to a PLB.  

   Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018. Regards, David 

PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argument, but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom of UK! 

   

 

On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   

Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the remote place (and you have not launched your PLB), ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the world.  Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.  Really, all the  pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!  (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).  For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here with my monowheel. To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters. They just look, maybe!!! Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life! In that case, ELT were superb.  So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster).  David, I´m pretty sure You get it!  Go on! I know you can have your burst!  Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?  *** About me /my status:  - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 * - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year ago - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again. - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.  David, pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!  Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.  Raimo OH-XRT Finland   davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:

  	  Quote: 	
		   

  

Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits. 

   Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us  (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section. 

    Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   

Hi Jon, 

I do agree. 

One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically after your critical impact. 

It´s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation 

(when trying to survive out from your disaster). 

What´s a typical accident? It´s during take off or landing. If shit happens then, PLB is useless! 

PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote 

(that´s potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]). 

I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands. 

Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and that´s why I have no Turbo), 

but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory. 

So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when it´s easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds... 

(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).  

I would like to say: 

ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra... 

(isn´t it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like that, should be vice versa...) Cheers, Raimo Finland OH-XRT The fastest Europa ever build (and only 4-seater) 

   

 italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:

  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)



Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry. 



For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.



With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.



I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097

Duncan McFadyean

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 220

Posted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:44 am Post subject: ELT

Was there any resolution as to why, after G-BYSA 'landed' in the North Sea coast and set-off its PLB, nobody ever came?

I appreciate that most alerts (particularly in a marine environment) are false alarms, but are alerts screened in this way?

Duncan McF.

 

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   ----Original Message----

 From: davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk

 Date: 02/11/2017 09:09

 To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subj: Re: Re: ELT

 

   

Raimo, Yes of course I have looked down on those very remote and rugged spaces in Finland and we do infact have some equally remote and unlandable places in the UK (try flying round all the remote Scottish islands), but it doesn't alter the point that there are few landings where you are not either dead or able to use a PLB. Two or three hundred euros invested in a Smartass is much more likely to save your life than a similar amount spent on an ELT in addition to a PLB.  

   Much tempted by the idea of some more Aviation beer and Sauna in 2018. Regards, David 

PS We shouldn't really get into a 'Mine's bigger than yours' sort of argument, but I find that it is around 620nm from t to bottom of Finland and 660nm top to bottom of UK! 

   

 

On 2017-11-01 21:09, Raimo Toivio wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   

Dear David, you are right as usually, but however, think about accident in the remote place (and you have not launched your PLB),

 ELT is your only hope (if you happen to be alive) . I do understand that it is not so easy to you to understand there are really unpopulated places in the world.

 

 Like Finland. You have flown here a lot. Think.

 

 Really, all the  pilots are not flying in the Great Britain!!!

 

 (which is a very little put populated - island somewhere).

 

 For example Me, after not-so-succesfull landing to any remote private strip here with my monowheel.

 To my home strips, where there are people available from hundreds of meters. They just look, maybe!!!

 Raimo has left his aircraft there, and same time I am loosing maybe my life! In that case, ELT were superb.

 

 So far, I have had about 600 landings with my Mono, and still one prop (AirMaster).

 

 David, IÂ´m pretty sure You get it!

 

 Go on! I know you can have your burst!

 

 Or, maybe you need a real Finnish Sauna to get out your real Europa Mind?

 

 ***

 About me /my status:

 

 - my Europa OH-XRT is still not flyable but will be during early 2018 *

 - my Lamco OH-U666 (a bushplane) is flyable now finally after my crash one year ago

 - my very Beloved Cesna OH-CVK (which I owned 1996-2012) is here back again.

 - my Antonov AN-2 HA-MDO is in Sweden, but it will be soon here.

 

 David,

 pls fly here duging The 2018 - the cows are away!

 

 Just land EFRT 12/30 or 03/21 if you like so.

 

 Raimo

 OH-XRT

 Finland

 

  davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 20:58:

  	  Quote: 	
		   

  

Raimo, It's great to hear from you again! hope that your engine woes are sorted and that we can look forward to more accounts of your fascinating flying exploits. 

   Although there is always great sense in what you say, in this context I would take a slightly different approach. I would say there are two sorts of 'typical' - firstly the sort of accident where you walk away from it and don't need much in the way of help - or if you do then you are in a state to work your mobile, or your PLB assuming you have landed in orderly fashion either in mid ocean or in a remote part of Finland (and there is plenty of that!). The other sort of typical is sadly the sort of accident you do not walk away from and very few of those are survived with or without an ELT. Sadly some 2% of us  (i.e. GA pilots in general) die from stall/spin accidents, entirely unsurviveable. My plea would be for folk to address that possibility more seriously. Prevention is the answer, not an ELT to get help more quickly after the event. There are suggestions of how you can address this issue on the (beautiful new) club website in the 'Flying' section. 

    Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

   

 

On 2017-11-01 18:29, Raimo Toivio wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   

Hi Jon, 

I do agree. 

One more thing: PLB must be launched manually, but ELT should work automatically after your critical impact. 

ItÂ´s easy to imagine a situation where you have no time to switch on your PLB or you even forget to do it during your possible more or less panic situation 

(when trying to survive out from your disaster). 

WhatÂ´s a typical accident? ItÂ´s during take off or landing. If shit happens then, PLB is useless! 

PLB is very nice when you happen to lose your engine in the high up altitude, or have made a succesfull emergency landing to the remote 

(thatÂ´s potential for me, here in Finland, which is practically empty [wolves will not call emergency, they just eat you]). 

I love my PLB also because I fly regularly over the sea between Finland and Sweden. That flight is 1 hour over open seawater without islands. 

Of course I fly high up using typically my very favourite FL69 (Swedish female ATC love my request to use it and thatÂ´s why I have no Turbo), 

but in the case of silence with my best glide ratio (1:17, w featherable VSuperb AirMaster), I am able to glide say practically about 35 km in theory. 

So, there is still a cap almost 200 km = 45 min when itÂ´s easy to monitor your engine and listen strange sounds... 

(in a real life I put my autopilot on and start to listen hi-fi music through my HS800 via B&O and usually sleep say half an hour).  

I would like to say: 

ELT is essential and PLB is a nice extra... 

(isnÂ´t it strange that what older you are, that more you are thinking things like that, should be vice versa...) Cheers,

 Raimo

 Finland

 OH-XRT

 The fastest Europa ever build

 (and only 4-seater)

 

   

 italianjon kirjoitti 1.11.2017 klo 17:30:

  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)



Just to throw my thoughts on the ELT/PLB argument, as I have been debating for a while on whether to get one. This information came from a VERY reliable source, someone who is involved in the SAR industry. 



For the record I had just a PLB, but I now have both.



With an ELT action will always be taken, and it will be immediate, as they have all information readily available through the registration authorities. On a PLB, action will only be taken once it is a confirmed emergency.



I have to admit I thought my leg was being pulled until I saw the forms. On the ELT registration form that I completed, I only completed my details, and that was it. WIth the PLB form I had to complete the contact details of three additional people who know my movements and can be contacted in the event that the PLB is activated.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=474097#474097

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