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Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

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kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:28 pm Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

Hi



Everyone knows that VANS makes a great kit. That being said, some of the kit components do seem like that they are ex the iron works of Mordor.  



IMHO, the rudder pedals and brake lines supplied as part of the VANS kit really don't do the -10 justice. In my flying -10, I installed Paul Grimstad's after market pedals.. I have been very happy with them. They really look like they "belong'".



For my current project I went back to Paul and got his current pedal iteration. It is lighter and equally appropriate in a -10 fuse.



For those interested, here is a link to his website: http://controlapproach.com/products/experimental-aircraft-products/rv10-rudder-pedal-system



Cheers



Les

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Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

I am most happy with my Control Approach pedals. 



Sure grip for feet.



 	  Quote: 	
		  Sent from my IBM-360 main frame 	


 

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:28 PM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)>

 

 Hi

 

 Everyone knows that VANS makes a great kit. That being said, some of the kit components do seem like that they are ex the iron works of Mordor.

 

 IMHO, the rudder pedals and brake lines supplied as part of the VANS kit really don't do the -10 justice. In my flying -10, I installed Paul Grimstad's after market pedals.. I have been very happy with them. They really look like they "belong'".

 

 For my current project I went back to Paul and got his current pedal iteration. It is lighter and equally appropriate in a -10 fuse.

 

 For those interested, here is a link to his website: http://controlapproach.com/products/experimental-aircraft-products/rv10-rudder-pedal-system

 

 Cheers

 

 Les

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478432#478432

 

 

 

 

 Attachments:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0144_108.jpg

 

 

 

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 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:07 pm Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

Les,

   

They indeed look nice.  No prices on the website that I could find. What did they set you back?



Thanks,

Marcus 

Hoping to break 1000 hours this year



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 6, 2018, at 9:28 PM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

 Do not archive

 

 

 Hi

 

 Everyone knows that VANS makes a great kit. That being said, some of the kit components do seem like that they are ex the iron works of Mordor.  

 

 IMHO, the rudder pedals and brake lines supplied as part of the VANS kit really don't do the -10 justice. In my flying -10, I installed Paul Grimstad's after market pedals.. I have been very happy with them. They really look like they "belong'".

 

 For my current project I went back to Paul and got his current pedal iteration. It is lighter and equally appropriate in a -10 fuse.

 

 For those interested, here is a link to his website: http://controlapproach.com/products/experimental-aircraft-products/rv10-rudder-pedal-system

 

 Cheers

 

 Les

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478432#478432

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0144_108.jpg

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:28 pm Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

Just under $2k



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 6, 2018, at 9:06 PM, Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Les,

 

 They indeed look nice.  No prices on the website that I could find. What did they set you back?

 

 Thanks,

 Marcus 

 Hoping to break 1000 hours this year

 

> On Mar 6, 2018, at 9:28 PM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca> wrote:

> Do not archive

> 

> 

> Hi

> 

> Everyone knows that VANS makes a great kit. That being said, some of the kit components do seem like that they are ex the iron works of Mordor.  

> 

> IMHO, the rudder pedals and brake lines supplied as part of the VANS kit really don't do the -10 justice. In my flying -10, I installed Paul Grimstad's after market pedals.. I have been very happy with them. They really look like they "belong'".

> 

> For my current project I went back to Paul and got his current pedal iteration. It is lighter and equally appropriate in a -10 fuse.

> 

> For those interested, here is a link to his website: http://controlapproach.com/products/experimental-aircraft-products/rv10-rudder-pedal-system

> 

> Cheers

> 

> Les

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Read this topic online here:

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=478432#478432

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Attachments: 

> 

> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0144_108.jpg

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:41 am Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

I find the stock rudder pedal setup works just fine - after I added a simple

extension to keep my toes off the brakes.  I buddy of mine made these on his

milling machine.  He still has the pattern if anyone is interested.



$2000 will buy a lot of avgas.



Carl



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Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:01 am Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

I'd agree.  I've never found them aesthetically unpleasing and they work

just fine.  In my case I don't even have the extension and don't have a 

problem

keeping off the brakes.  Plus they do make those aftermarket rubber pedals

with upper and lower push areas, if someone really has to have that.

There are plenty of ways to spend extra thousands of dollars...but 

having just

signed on to SiriusXM today, I'd rather spend it on 4 years of satellite wx.

To each his own I guess.



To those who ask why XM when ADS-B is free....ADS-B coverage sucks

at low altitudes and you don't have it when you need it most.



Tim

On 3/7/2018 8:39 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I find the stock rudder pedal setup works just fine - after I added a simple

 extension to keep my toes off the brakes.  I buddy of mine made these on his

 milling machine.  He still has the pattern if anyone is interested.



 $2000 will buy a lot of avgas.



 Carl

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:03 am Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

Re ADSB coverage: Tim, is that primarily a 'midwest' issue in your 

experience?  I was previously a XM subscriber  and definitely preferred 

their wx products but I'm getting ADSB coverage everywhere I'm looking 

for it on the east coast and the price remains right.  Just wondering....



I painted my Vans pedals (the pads with the holes)  in silver and they 

really look spiffy - like stainless.  Didn't see that coming.  Those 

aftermarkets look pretty spiffy as well.



Bill "wondering if 1,000 hours marks the  beginning  of  some kind of a 

'things fail and wear-out' mode" Watson



On 3/7/2018 10:00 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I'd agree.  I've never found them aesthetically unpleasing and they work

 just fine.  In my case I don't even have the extension and don't have 

 a problem

 keeping off the brakes.  Plus they do make those aftermarket rubber 

 pedals

 with upper and lower push areas, if someone really has to have that.

 There are plenty of ways to spend extra thousands of dollars...but 

 having just

 signed on to SiriusXM today, I'd rather spend it on 4 years of 

 satellite wx.

 To each his own I guess.



 To those who ask why XM when ADS-B is free....ADS-B coverage sucks

 at low altitudes and you don't have it when you need it most.



 Tim

 On 3/7/2018 8:39 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:

> I find the stock rudder pedal setup works just fine - after I added a 

> simple

> extension to keep my toes off the brakes.  I buddy of mine made these 

> on his

> milling machine.  He still has the pattern if anyone is interested.

>

> $2000 will buy a lot of avgas.

>

> Carl




	




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Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:11 am Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

I have these pedals (photo attached). They work great, but still donâ€™t fix the sticking master cylinder issue. Just recently had some badly warped rotors because of dragging brakes.



Saw someone put plastic Heyco bushings in the lightning holes of their stock pedals. It make it look really cool, and probably saves the powdercoating from wearing off.



Lenny

[img]cid:75500584-FDB9-43C3-A1EC-830267CABE44[/img] 	  Quote: 	
		  On Mar 7, 2018, at 10:00 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)> wrote:--> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com (Tim(at)MyRV10.com)>I'd agree.  I've never found them aesthetically unpleasing and they workjust fine.  In my case I don't even have the extension and don't have a problemkeeping off the brakes.  Plus they do make those aftermarket rubber pedalswith upper and lower push areas, if someone really has to have that.There are plenty of ways to spend extra thousands of dollars...but having justsigned on to SiriusXM today, I'd rather spend it on 4 years of satellite wx.To each his own I guess.To those who ask why XM when ADS-B is free....ADS-B coverage sucksat low altitudes and you don't have it when you need it most.TimOn 3/7/2018 8:39 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  I find the stock rudder pedal setup works just fine - after I added a simpleextension to keep my toes off the brakes.  I buddy of mine made these on hismilling machine.  He still has the pattern if anyone is interested.$2000 will buy a lot of avgas.Carl 	
http://wiki.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution

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_________________
Lenny Iszak
Palm City, FL
2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 500 hrs

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:27 am Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

I would say if you live on the East coast, you'll probably have it 

better than most people in the country.

Certainly the coverage is better and the terrain is flatter. Where it 

really falls apart is

in the center of the country and heading west, and in the mountains in 

areas too.

It depends on what you're flight altitude is, and the season, especially.

Like for instance, one spring trip around here, we had cold temps with 

icing conditions

all over, but VFR underneath.  The ceilings being 1200' or so. Well, 

that's fine if

you have good viz underneath...no reason to cancel a trip to the 

tropics, or to not

be able to get home.  But, you will find that under 3000-3500' of 

altitude the

coverage is horrible in much of the country.   Maybe it's summertime and 

there

are thunderstorms and clouds...I never want to fly instruments when 

there are

lots of thunderstorms all in my path, so I'll duck under where I can 

stay VFR and

make decisions on the conditions and do lots of deviations.  That 

doesn't play

well always either with the altitude restrictions of ADS-B.  Even by my 

own airport

and flying to the local town that is 80,000+ people and one of the only 

bigger

cities in our part of the state, we have to be at 3,000-3500' before we 

get any

weather info.  In the rainy periods of the year, this makes it again 

impossible to

have the data you need to avoid storm cells and make decisions that may give

you a good route to your destination.   When I took the plane to idaho 

with ADS-B

only, we had <2000' ceilings just east of the rockies in Wyoming....with 

great

clear skies under the overcast.  No weather info to be had, which means no

current wind info for your possible fuel stops.



So what I find is, if you are flying something heavier that you are 

always going to

fly high, and cruise at maybe 8,000-16,000', sure, FIS-B will probably 

work for you

if you don't care about the weather picture when you're on the ground.

But for any serious x/c travel, if you are NOT interested in getting 

into icing,

and NOT interested in flying inside clouds with embeded thunderstorms

anywhere nearby, or you need to fly at 1,000-3,000' for avoiding turbulence

or weather, you will be lacking all of the data you need to do it safely.



I distinctly remember a flight home from OSH in the Sundowner years ago,

started at 7,000 IFR, but with big black clouds to the North, ended 

cancelling

and going lower to get home VFR.  I had no weather data, and no fuel 

totalizer,

and had an extended taxi at OSH.  I felt completely at a loss for 

information and

had to divert and stop and sit on the ground until I could get good weather

data.  As it turned out, if I'd have had a fuel totalizer, and any kind 

of in-cockpit

weather, I would have known my fuel situation was "plenty" and a 10 minute

diversion could have put me on the back side in completely clear skies, 

where

I'd have been able to get home.  In fact, by phone, people at home told me

there wasn't a cloud in the sky...I just needed to take the right route.



FIS-B is a big letdown of coverage.  If the feds DOUBLED the number of

uplinks, I'd say it may finally just be good enough.  The way it is now,

I think they should have skipped FIS-B altogether and just given a free

base package of satellite weather to every pilot, with Nexrad, metars,

and TAF's and TFR's.  Then let them buy additional.



At least in my past 1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that satellite wx

was one of the biggest things that enabled successful trips, and is 

probably the

last piece of technology I'd want to remove from the plane, even as

far as the EFIS goes.  I'll fly a six-pack if I have to, but you have to pry

the weather data from my hands.



Tim

On 3/7/2018 10:02 AM, Bill Watson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Re ADSB coverage: Tim, is that primarily a 'midwest' issue in your 

 experience?  I was previously a XM subscriber  and definitely 

 preferred their wx products but I'm getting ADSB coverage everywhere 

 I'm looking for it on the east coast and the price remains right.  

 Just wondering....



 I painted my Vans pedals (the pads with the holes)  in silver and they 

 really look spiffy - like stainless.  Didn't see that coming.  Those 

 aftermarkets look pretty spiffy as well.



 Bill "wondering if 1,000 hours marks the  beginning  of  some kind of 

 a 'things fail and wear-out' mode" Watson

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:35 am Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

I'm curious, how are those pedals       balanced as far as a tendency to tip forward or aft?

       Not being critical at all, just wondering.Â  I know that when I       added the pedal blocks

       to mine for the girls, I set them up and they actually are       weighted so that they would

       help to retract the pedal.Â  I also remember people in the past       adding return springs

       to the master cylinder.Â  (is that what I see by the hose on the       picture?) 

       Is it possible that the weighting of the pedal maybe assisted in       adding to the 

       brake drag?Â  Just thinking out loud.Â  If that were true, maybe a       slight change in the

       position of the lower pad could make a difference.

       

       I've not run into problems with the stock setup, but I know people       who have,

       and I've always been curious as to what would be so different.Â  I       know that

       a few people have gone to a singe long hinge bolt, and I know that       over tightening

       the bolts can really be a big problem. But other that that I can't       find any

       serious flaws in the stock system.Â  Van's did improve the pedal       itself in the

       RV-14 kit, so for new builders, you may want to swap parts for the

       actual metal pedal itself. from the -14.Â  Everything else is the       same.

       Tim

       

       

       

       

       On 3/7/2018 10:10 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         I have these pedals (photo attached). They work         great, but still donâ€™t fix the sticking master cylinder issue.         Just recently had some badly warped rotors because of dragging         brakes.

              

       Saw someone put plastic Heyco bushings in the         lightning holes of their stock pedals. It make it look really         cool, and probably saves the powdercoating from wearing off.

              

       Lenny

              

              

       [img]cid:part1.88C42868.20603B78(at)MyRV10.com[/img]

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Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:59 am Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

The pedal geometry is exactly the same as stock. I havenâ€™t checked their balance but thatâ€™s a good point.

I did add return springs and they seem to be helping, but Iâ€™m going to switch them out to clock springs, cause according to Matco the current ones are eventually going to wear out the master cylinder shaft.

Lenny

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 7, 2018, at 11:34 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:

 I'm curious, how are those pedals balanced as far as a tendency to tip forward or aft?

 Not being critical at all, just wondering.  I know that when I added the pedal blocks

 to mine for the girls, I set them up and they actually are weighted so that they would

 help to retract the pedal.  I also remember people in the past adding return springs

 to the master cylinder.  (is that what I see by the hose on the picture?) 

 Is it possible that the weighting of the pedal maybe assisted in adding to the 

 brake drag?  Just thinking out loud.  If that were true, maybe a slight change in the

 position of the lower pad could make a difference.

 I've not run into problems with the stock setup, but I know people who have,

 and I've always been curious as to what would be so different.  I know that

 a few people have gone to a singe long hinge bolt, and I know that over tightening

 the bolts can really be a big problem. But other that that I can't find any

 serious flaws in the stock system.  Van's did improve the pedal itself in the

 RV-14 kit, so for new builders, you may want to swap parts for the

 actual metal pedal itself. from the -14.  Everything else is the same.

 Tim

 On 3/7/2018 10:10 AM, Lenny Iszak wrote:

> I have these pedals (photo attached). They work great, but still donâ€™t fix the sticking master cylinder issue. Just recently had some badly warped rotors because of dragging brakes.

> 

> Saw someone put plastic Heyco bushings in the lightning holes of their stock pedals. It make it look really cool, and probably saves the powdercoating from wearing off.

> 

> Lenny

> 

> 

> <IMG_0476.JPG>

_________________
Lenny Iszak
Palm City, FL
2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 500 hrs

aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

While on the discussion of rudder pedals, Aerosport Products is going to

start offering these extensions with Your Custom N-Number or whatever you

would like,

Or just a standard set with the AEROSPORT on them. These will be Nylon PA12

and the cost will be $75.00 per set of 2 for the Standard and for custom

will be

$95.00. For custom pedals allow around 2 weeks. I have been flying with a

set of these that I machined out of Aluminum for 8 years. I have just

changed over to the new ones.

You will need 2 sets for pilot and copilot

Geoff Combs

Aerosport Modeling & Design

8090 Howe Industrial Parkway

Canal, Winchester, Ohio 43110

614-834-5227



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Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

gengrumpy

Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 131
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 9:20 am Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

I wholeheartedly agree with Timâ€™s assessment.  XM WX on my 396 is a permanent fixture in my 10 with the ADS-B WX the backup!

grumpy

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Mar 7, 2018, at 10:26 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:

 I would say if you live on the East coast, you'll probably have it better than most people in the country.

 Certainly the coverage is better and the terrain is flatter. Where it really falls apart is

 in the center of the country and heading west, and in the mountains in areas too.

 It depends on what you're flight altitude is, and the season, especially.

 Like for instance, one spring trip around here, we had cold temps with icing conditions

 all over, but VFR underneath.  The ceilings being 1200' or so. Well, that's fine if

 you have good viz underneath...no reason to cancel a trip to the tropics, or to not

 be able to get home.  But, you will find that under 3000-3500' of altitude the

 coverage is horrible in much of the country.   Maybe it's summertime and there

 are thunderstorms and clouds...I never want to fly instruments when there are

 lots of thunderstorms all in my path, so I'll duck under where I can stay VFR and

 make decisions on the conditions and do lots of deviations.  That doesn't play

 well always either with the altitude restrictions of ADS-B.  Even by my own airport

 and flying to the local town that is 80,000+ people and one of the only bigger

 cities in our part of the state, we have to be at 3,000-3500' before we get any

 weather info.  In the rainy periods of the year, this makes it again impossible to

 have the data you need to avoid storm cells and make decisions that may give

 you a good route to your destination.   When I took the plane to idaho with ADS-B

 only, we had <2000' ceilings just east of the rockies in Wyoming....with great

 clear skies under the overcast.  No weather info to be had, which means no

 current wind info for your possible fuel stops.

 So what I find is, if you are flying something heavier that you are always going to

 fly high, and cruise at maybe 8,000-16,000', sure, FIS-B will probably work for you

 if you don't care about the weather picture when you're on the ground.

 But for any serious x/c travel, if you are NOT interested in getting into icing,

 and NOT interested in flying inside clouds with embeded thunderstorms

 anywhere nearby, or you need to fly at 1,000-3,000' for avoiding turbulence

 or weather, you will be lacking all of the data you need to do it safely.

 I distinctly remember a flight home from OSH in the Sundowner years ago,

 started at 7,000 IFR, but with big black clouds to the North, ended cancelling

 and going lower to get home VFR.  I had no weather data, and no fuel totalizer,

 and had an extended taxi at OSH.  I felt completely at a loss for information and

 had to divert and stop and sit on the ground until I could get good weather

 data.  As it turned out, if I'd have had a fuel totalizer, and any kind of in-cockpit

 weather, I would have known my fuel situation was "plenty" and a 10 minute

 diversion could have put me on the back side in completely clear skies, where

 I'd have been able to get home.  In fact, by phone, people at home told me

 there wasn't a cloud in the sky...I just needed to take the right route.

 FIS-B is a big letdown of coverage.  If the feds DOUBLED the number of

 uplinks, I'd say it may finally just be good enough.  The way it is now,

 I think they should have skipped FIS-B altogether and just given a free

 base package of satellite weather to every pilot, with Nexrad, metars,

 and TAF's and TFR's.  Then let them buy additional.

 At least in my past 1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that satellite wx

 was one of the biggest things that enabled successful trips, and is probably the

 last piece of technology I'd want to remove from the plane, even as

 far as the EFIS goes.  I'll fly a six-pack if I have to, but you have to pry

 the weather data from my hands.

 Tim

 On 3/7/2018 10:02 AM, Bill Watson wrote:

> 

> 

> Re ADSB coverage: Tim, is that primarily a 'midwest' issue in your experience?  I was previously a XM subscriber  and definitely preferred their wx products but I'm getting ADSB coverage everywhere I'm looking for it on the east coast and the price remains right.  Just wondering....

> 

> I painted my Vans pedals (the pads with the holes)  in silver and they really look spiffy - like stainless.  Didn't see that coming.  Those aftermarkets look pretty spiffy as well.

> 

> Bill "wondering if 1,000 hours marks the  beginning  of  some kind of a 'things fail and wear-out' mode" Watson

Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:21 pm Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

Yes, that sounds different that what I normally encounter in the east 

and southeast.



I can get ADSB weather practically down to the ground, or at least as 

close to the ground as I normally find myself looking for wx info.  A 

couple of years ago I had an odd situation where I could take off from 

my home field (8NC8) and fly to KTTA, passing by KRDU, and would not get 

any ADSB data until very short final at KTTA.  However, taking off from 

KTTA and flying home, I would have ADSB data all the way back.  

Sometimes rec'ng ADSB data on the ground at 8NC8.  Power down and then 

back up - no ADSB.  Navworx worked with me (!!!) to try and fix it.  We 

concluded it was an ADSB 'network' problem and sure enough, full service 

appeared magically a few months later.  (Yes, I'm still runnning Navworx 

with the AMOC successfully)



Otherwise, flying underneath a low ceiling to avoid ice is not common 

solution in the SE, at least for me.  But I do plenty of flying under 

the icy overcast out of KAGC (Pittsburgh) and I consistently get ADSB at 

1500'  AGL when needed.  Same with T-storms.  Normally flying above 

cloud base, which often between 4 and 6k,  is enough to allow convective 

storm avoidance via the requested deviation.  Only rarely do I run into 

situations where getting underneath is preferable.  Surface 'bumpiness', 

i.e. hills and antenna make me think twice about it anyway.



As a wise and experienced aviator said recently, "At least in my past 

1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that satellite wx was one of the 

biggest things that enabled successful trips, and is probably the last 

piece of technology I'd want to remove from the plane, even as far as 

the EFIS goes.  I'll fly a six-pack if I have to, but you have to pry

the weather data from my hands."  Indeed.



It has been that way for me since I first laid eyes on Nexrad imagery in 

the cockpit using CheapBastard software on the communicating Palm Pilot 

(anyone else here ever use it?).  Then the 396 came out with XM and my 

little Maule with its 6-pack felt like a EA6 Prowler bristling with 

antennas.  In fact for that first year or so with the 396 it was great 

fun to mix it up with jet traffic that would be holding outside say KJAX 

because of a line of thunder-bumpers while I snaked my way in behind 

it.  They had radar, but I could see around corners.



Five minutes later it seemed like everyone had a 396 in the bag - radar 

capable or not.



On 3/7/2018 11:26 AM, Tim Olson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I would say if you live on the East coast, you'll probably have it 

 better than most people in the country.

 Certainly the coverage is better and the terrain is flatter. Where it 

 really falls apart is

 in the center of the country and heading west, and in the mountains in 

 areas too.

 It depends on what you're flight altitude is, and the season, especially.

 Like for instance, one spring trip around here, we had cold temps with 

 icing conditions

 all over, but VFR underneath.  The ceilings being 1200' or so. Well, 

 that's fine if

 you have good viz underneath...no reason to cancel a trip to the 

 tropics, or to not

 be able to get home.  But, you will find that under 3000-3500' of 

 altitude the

 coverage is horrible in much of the country.   Maybe it's summertime 

 and there

 are thunderstorms and clouds...I never want to fly instruments when 

 there are

 lots of thunderstorms all in my path, so I'll duck under where I can 

 stay VFR and

 make decisions on the conditions and do lots of deviations.  That 

 doesn't play

 well always either with the altitude restrictions of ADS-B.  Even by 

 my own airport

 and flying to the local town that is 80,000+ people and one of the 

 only bigger

 cities in our part of the state, we have to be at 3,000-3500' before 

 we get any

 weather info.  In the rainy periods of the year, this makes it again 

 impossible to

 have the data you need to avoid storm cells and make decisions that 

 may give

 you a good route to your destination.   When I took the plane to idaho 

 with ADS-B

 only, we had <2000' ceilings just east of the rockies in 

 Wyoming....with great

 clear skies under the overcast.  No weather info to be had, which 

 means no

 current wind info for your possible fuel stops.



 So what I find is, if you are flying something heavier that you are 

 always going to

 fly high, and cruise at maybe 8,000-16,000', sure, FIS-B will probably 

 work for you

 if you don't care about the weather picture when you're on the ground.

 But for any serious x/c travel, if you are NOT interested in getting 

 into icing,

 and NOT interested in flying inside clouds with embeded thunderstorms

 anywhere nearby, or you need to fly at 1,000-3,000' for avoiding 

 turbulence

 or weather, you will be lacking all of the data you need to do it safely.



 I distinctly remember a flight home from OSH in the Sundowner years ago,

 started at 7,000 IFR, but with big black clouds to the North, ended 

 cancelling

 and going lower to get home VFR.  I had no weather data, and no fuel 

 totalizer,

 and had an extended taxi at OSH.  I felt completely at a loss for 

 information and

 had to divert and stop and sit on the ground until I could get good 

 weather

 data.  As it turned out, if I'd have had a fuel totalizer, and any 

 kind of in-cockpit

 weather, I would have known my fuel situation was "plenty" and a 10 

 minute

 diversion could have put me on the back side in completely clear 

 skies, where

 I'd have been able to get home.  In fact, by phone, people at home 

 told me

 there wasn't a cloud in the sky...I just needed to take the right route.



 FIS-B is a big letdown of coverage.  If the feds DOUBLED the number of

 uplinks, I'd say it may finally just be good enough.  The way it is now,

 I think they should have skipped FIS-B altogether and just given a free

 base package of satellite weather to every pilot, with Nexrad, metars,

 and TAF's and TFR's.  Then let them buy additional.



 At least in my past 1500 hours in the RV's now, I can say that 

 satellite wx

 was one of the biggest things that enabled successful trips, and is 

 probably the

 last piece of technology I'd want to remove from the plane, even as

 far as the EFIS goes.  I'll fly a six-pack if I have to, but you have 

 to pry

 the weather data from my hands.



 Tim

 On 3/7/2018 10:02 AM, Bill Watson wrote:

> 

>

> Re ADSB coverage: Tim, is that primarily a 'midwest' issue in your 

> experience?  I was previously a XM subscriber  and definitely 

> preferred their wx products but I'm getting ADSB coverage everywhere 

> I'm looking for it on the east coast and the price remains right.  

> Just wondering....

>

> I painted my Vans pedals (the pads with the holes)  in silver and 

> they really look spiffy - like stainless.  Didn't see that coming.  

> Those aftermarkets look pretty spiffy as well.

>

> Bill "wondering if 1,000 hours marks the  beginning  of  some kind of 

> a 'things fail and wear-out' mode" Watson 




	




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toaster73(at)embarqmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:53 pm Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

..and if you are low enough 4G LTE works too. 

-Chris

N919AR



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2872

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:02 pm Post subject: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

Very true.  I find to be reliable in my area thatâ€™s 1000-1500 max, but I think when the day come that we can all get in cockpit internet access cheaply, that will finally negate the need for all of this other satellite and FIS-B stuff.

It canâ€™t come soon enough.

Tim



[quote] On Mar 7, 2018, at 3:45 PM, Chris <toaster73(at)embarqmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 ...and if you are low enough 4G LTE works too. 

 -Chris

 N919AR

 

 --

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

Sorry for the thread drift...

Am I the only one who has gotten the dreaded â€œRefresh signal neededâ€ from XM? The radio boots up on channel 1 with the message, and is otherwise useless until you get XM to send the signal. We have XM in the airplane, cars, home. Different model receivers. It has happened to all of them at one time or another. Happened so often that I have the specific XM web site page bookmarked in the iPad. And then, it happened to the XM wx receiver when I really wanted it - crossing AZ VFR but with scattered lines of thunderstorms. I probably over reacted, but I was so angry that when I got home I bought an ADSB-in box and cancelled XM wx. So far, Iâ€™m happy. Locally I seldom fly any distance under 3,000â€™ (the terain doesnâ€™t allow it) and ADSB-in coverage seems good. If I frequently flew in the flatlands I might have a different opinion.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

Rocketman1988

Joined: 21 Jun 2012
Posts: 63

Posted: Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:37 am Post subject: Re: Aftermarket Rudder Pedals

I originally wanted Paul's setup; it looks really nice.  Problem was, he stopped making them.  I kept in touch for as long a I could wait but finally ended up with the stock system...not flying yet but they should work fine...

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