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docclv(at)windstream.net
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 Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 6:38 am Post subject: STC for 94UL fuel |
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Once a certified engine is installed in an Experimental Aircraft it is
no longer "certified". It then is governed by all "experimental"
rules. No STC needed to burn Swift Fuels 94UL. I am sure all you know
that the Lycoming IO-540s are approved for Mogas (check your engine
manual for engine variations). Since Mogas is not readily available on
most airports, we stick with 100LL. Burn 11gal/hr at 24 squared. 17+
miles per gallon. Nice machines. Doc
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:03 am Post subject: STC for 94UL fuel |
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Not entirely true. You all will remember that it is possible to get a 25 hour Phase 1, IF you have a certified engine and prop combination.
Installation in an experimental airframe does not affect the certificate on the engine. OTOH, if you change one item to an uncertified component it is no longer certified, until you return it to its certified condition.
Kelly
A&P/IA
| Quote: | | Sent from my TRS-80 Model 100 |
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 7:42 AM Doc <docclv(at)windstream.net (docclv(at)windstream.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Doc <docclv(at)windstream.net (docclv(at)windstream.net)>
Once a certified engine is installed in an Experimental Aircraft it is
no longer "certified". It then is governed by all "experimental"
rules. No STC needed to burn Swift Fuels 94UL. I am sure all you know
that the Lycoming IO-540s are approved for Mogas (check your engine
manual for engine variations). Since Mogas is not readily available on
most airports, we stick with 100LL. Burn 11gal/hr at 24 squared. 17+
miles per gallon. Nice machines. Doc
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Kelly McMullen
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wgreenley
Joined: 09 Jan 2010
Posts: 100
Location: Dowagiac, MI
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:55 am Post subject: STC for 94UL fuel |
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Forget the stc, i want to know how tou sent this from you trs80 model 100.
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020, 11:07 AM Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Not entirely true. You all will remember that it is possible to get a 25 hour Phase 1, IF you have a certified engine and prop combination.
Installation in an experimental airframe does not affect the certificate on the engine. OTOH, if you change one item to an uncertified component it is no longer certified, until you return it to its certified condition.
Kelly
A&P/IA
| Quote: | | Sent from my TRS-80 Model 100 |
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 7:42 AM Doc <docclv(at)windstream.net (docclv(at)windstream.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Doc <docclv(at)windstream.net (docclv(at)windstream.net)>
Once a certified engine is installed in an Experimental Aircraft it is
no longer "certified". It then is governed by all "experimental"
rules. No STC needed to burn Swift Fuels 94UL. I am sure all you know
that the Lycoming IO-540s are approved for Mogas (check your engine
manual for engine variations). Since Mogas is not readily available on
most airports, we stick with 100LL. Burn 11gal/hr at 24 squared. 17+
miles per gallon. Nice machines. Doc
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-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:54 am Post subject: Re: STC for 94UL fuel |
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I believe both Doc and Kelly are correct here! Under most situations, Doc is correct. As an EAB anyone can work on the engine, and no records are required to be kept. The paper trail assuring that it conforms to its original type certificate is lost. It can be restored by having an AI inspect the engine (presumably internal parts too) and state that it conforms to its type certificate. Now, Kelly holds an AI, so as long as he keeps the required records, and states that no one else has worked on the engine (except another A&P or qualified person), he may state that his engine is in conformance with its TC. But for most of us, no.
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Bob Turner
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:48 pm Post subject: STC for 94UL fuel |
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Slight misinterpretation of regs. I just taught a class to A&Ps a week ago on regs concerning experimental aircraft and condition inspections.
ALL y'all know that experimental amateur built aircraft are exempt from Part 43 (mostly anyway), BUT your operating limitations require the same inspection as outlined in Part 43 Appendix D for an annual inspection. Only the wording of the sign-off and who is authorized to do it are different. In a similar manner, while 43.9 tells you what is supposed to be in an aircraft maintenance entry, which you are sorta exempt from; FAR 91.417 requires maintenance of aircraft records, including all maintenance and inspections. I teach A&P's to expect there to be no records because of the beliefs among some owners that they are exempt.
The non-regulatory side of the fence is that the better records you have, the more saleable and valuable your aircraft is to a prospective buyer.
How comfortable would you be if you were the buyer and an aircraft showed 80-90 hours a year of flying, with no oil or filter changes, no tire changes, no brake pad changes, etc. And the condition inspection sign-off only said it was inspected, with no maintenance listed?
Of course it is strictly up to you what records you make and keep.
Kelly
| Quote: | | Sent from my TRS-80 Model 100 |
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 10:00 AM Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu (bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu)>
I believe both Doc and Kelly are correct here! Under most situations, Doc is correct. As an EAB anyone can work on the engine, and no records are required to be kept. The paper trail assuring that it conforms to its original type certificate is lost. It can be restored by having an AI inspect the engine (presumably internal parts too) and state that it conforms to its type certificate. Now, Kelly holds an AI, so as long as he keeps the required records, and states that no one else has worked on the engine (except another A&P or qualified person), he may state that his engine is in conformance with its TC. But for most of us, no.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495318#495318
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| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
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Kelly McMullen
Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:54 pm Post subject: STC for 94UL fuel |
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I have forgotten whether the trash 80s I had were equipped with a modem or if had to have one external, but they had a keyboard, rudimentary text handling, etc. I figure better than advertising for Apple or Samsung. Perhaps I should switch to my old Compaq Deskpro with 1200 baud modem.
Or IBM Displaywriter.
| Quote: | | Sent from my TRS-80 Model 100 |
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 8:59 AM William Greenley <wgreenley(at)gmail.com (wgreenley(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Forget the stc, i want to know how tou sent this from you trs80 model 100.
|
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD |
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Bob Turner
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:00 pm Post subject: Re: STC for 94UL fuel |
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| Kelly McMullen wrote: | . In a similar manner, while 43.9 tells you what is supposed to be in an aircraft maintenance entry, which you are sorta exempt from; FAR 91.417 requires maintenance of aircraft records, including all maintenance and inspections.
0 |
I'm not a lawyer. But I read the above quote to say "91.4xx says you must keep all the maintenance records which part 43 required you to make. But part 43 said you don't need any.
But either way: I do not believe any maintenance records I choose to make and keep are sufficient to keep the engine in compliance with its type certificate, because I'm not authorized to do any work on a TC'd engine (other than the usual owner-performed stuff). So I would need an IA to return the engine to be in compliance with its TC. As an IA, of course you can do it yourself.
On Sat, Mar 14, 2020 at 10:00 AM Bob Turner <bobturner> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: "Bob Turner" <bobturner>
I believe both Doc and Kelly are correct here! Under most situations, Doc is correct. As an EAB anyone can work on the engine, and no records are required to be kept. The paper trail assuring that it conforms to its original type certificate is lost. It can be restored by having an AI inspect the engine (presumably internal parts too) and state that it conforms to its type certificate. Now, Kelly holds an AI, so as long as he keeps the required records, and states that no one else has worked on the engine (except another A&P or qualified person), he may state that his engine is in conformance with its TC. But for most of us, no.
--------
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=495318#495318
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
[/quote]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB |
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