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Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

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esp3500

Joined: 28 Feb 2020
Posts: 11

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:34 am Post subject: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

Ok, My situation is this. I have been taking flying lessons since last September

however this has all been in a flightstar.



I Just finished restoring an old twinstar.  taxiing is going well, but i know there is a big difference from a tricycle and a tail dragger.



does anyone have any videos of take offs and landings in a kolb maybe with some instructions as to what to look for.



I have not found anyone near me that does tail dragger training and I dont really want to train in a full sized trail dragger when I am in an ultralight.

rlaird

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 373
Location: Houston

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:03 am Post subject: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

I went from a RANS S12-XL (tricycle gear) to a Kolb MkIIIC ...  virtually no difference.  It's advised on takeoff to work up to the point where you get your taill off the ground as soon as possible, but don't worry about that at first.  It will happen organically.



And, like any taildragger, ground-handling is different and a cross-wind landing can get you in trouble (unless you have differential braking in your Kolb).



  -- Robert





On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 12:38 PM esp3500 <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net (letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "esp3500" <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net (letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 Ok, My situation is this. I have been taking flying lessons since last September

 however this has all been in a flightstar.

 

 I Just finished restoring an old twinstar.  taxiing is going well, but i know there is a big difference from a tricycle and a tail dragger.

 

 does anyone have any videos of take offs and landings in a kolb maybe with some instructions as to what to look for.

 

 I have not found anyone near me that does tail dragger training and I dont really want to train in a full sized trail dragger when I am in an ultralight.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497081#497081

 

 

 

 

 

 

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_________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Robert Laird
formerly: MkIIIc w/ 912ULS & Gyrobee
current: Autogyro Cavalon w/ 914ULS
Houston, TX area
http://www.Texas-Flyer.com

DANIELBINDL

Joined: 17 Apr 2013
Posts: 5
Location: New Smyrna, FL

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:36 am Post subject: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

Good Afternoon esp3500, I built my first UltraStar three decades ago when I lived in Wisconsin. Since I retired from the airlines, I have done a lot of videoing in my FireFly, here in Florida. 

What part of the country is home for you?

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 1:40 PM esp3500 <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net (letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "esp3500" <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net (letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 Ok, My situation is this. I have been taking flying lessons since last September

 however this has all been in a flightstar.

 

 I Just finished restoring an old twinstar.  taxiing is going well, but i know there is a big difference from a tricycle and a tail dragger.

 

 does anyone have any videos of take offs and landings in a kolb maybe with some instructions as to what to look for.

 

 I have not found anyone near me that does tail dragger training and I dont really want to train in a full sized trail dragger when I am in an ultralight.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497081#497081

 

 

 

 

 

 

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  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

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 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


-- 

Daniel Bindl

esp3500

Joined: 28 Feb 2020
Posts: 11

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

I am in North Carolina.  Prier to last fall I had no experience with the flying of anything. However I knew I wanted two planes, one with a enclosed cockpit and

one completely open.  I bought both the flightstar and the Kolb at nearly the same time.  Since the flightstar was not in too bad of shape when I got it I fixed it first. The circa 1980's Kolb twinstar was a different story. It was in bad shape and need completely torn down  repaired and recovered from the ground up. The Open cockpit twinstar appeal to me for this time of year because its hot down here but not so bad up there.  I come from decades of motorcycle riding so the open appeals to me.

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:13 am Post subject: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

Where in North Carolina?  I am in Tarboro.



do not archive



                                                                 Bill Sullivan



            

                                                                                        On Tuesday, June 30, 2020, 07:01:08 AM EDT, esp3500 <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:                

                



                



                --> Kolb-List message posted by: "esp3500" <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net (letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net)>



I am in North Carolina.  Prier to last fall I had no experience with the flying of anything. However I knew I wanted two planes, one with a enclosed cockpit and



one completely open.  I bought both the flightstar and the Kolb at nearly the same time.  Since the flightstar was not in too bad of shape when I got it I fixed it first. The circa 1980's Kolb twinstar was a different story. It was in bad shape and need completely torn down  repaired and recovered from the ground up. The Open cockpit twinstar appeal to me for this time of year because its hot down here but not so bad up there.  I come from decades of motorcycle riding so the open appeals to me.



Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497094#497094



http://www.mat=================



http://wiki.matronics.com<====================



http://w======

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:57 am Post subject: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

No offense but if your original message means you don't know how to fly,

then you need to get lessons at least through the first solo or you're

going to be talking to Jesus personally real soon now.  Kolbs are real

airplanes, not toys.  Ask anyone here about a guy named Scott (sorry I

don't remember his last name), who got a Sport Pilot ticket, built a

beautiful Mk IIIX.  He stalled, spun in on approach, and was killed..

Kolbs are great aircraft but they have to be flown all the time and if you

get slow, even though Kolbs recover from stalls as predictably as a Cessna

172 but you have to know what to do and when to do it.

I have a video on Youtube that deals with the changing perspective of the

horizon while on approach as you pull on flaps.  The video has no take off

shots.  My other videos at rick51076 might help a bit.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ-YaW9WgEU&t=48s



Rick Girard



<http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>

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On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 6:02 AM esp3500 <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



[quote] 



 I am in North Carolina.  Prier to last fall I had no experience with the

 flying of anything. However I knew I wanted two planes, one with a enclosed

 cockpit and

 one completely open.  I bought both the flightstar and the Kolb at nearly

 the same time.  Since the flightstar was not in too bad of shape when I got

 it I fixed it first. The circa 1980's Kolb twinstar was a different story

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

esp3500

Joined: 28 Feb 2020
Posts: 11

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

I am in Greensboro NC.  My planes stay at Henshaw Airport in Libery NC.

Its an old grass strip that really isn't being used much anymore so that is perfect for me because it gives me privacy to practice.

esp3500

Joined: 28 Feb 2020
Posts: 11

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

 	  rickofudall wrote: 	
		  No offense but if your original message means you don't know how to fly,

then you need to get lessons at least through the first solo or you're

going to be talking to Jesus personally real soon now.  Kolbs are real

airplanes, not toys.  Ask anyone here about a guy named Scott (sorry I

don't remember his last name), who got a Sport Pilot ticket, built a

beautiful Mk IIIX.  He stalled, spun in on approach, and was killed..

Kolbs are great aircraft but they have to be flown all the time and if you

get slow, even though Kolbs recover from stalls as predictably as a Cessna

172 but you have to know what to do and when to do it.

I have a video on Youtube that deals with the changing perspective of the

horizon while on approach as you pull on flaps.  The video has no take off

shots.  My other videos at rick51076 might help a bit.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQ-YaW9WgEU&t=48s



Rick Girard 	




Thanks Rick.

yes , I have had about 30 hrs of training and I have my permit although I have not gone to take my check ride because I have to do it in a rented plane that i am not yet familiar with. The pipistral that they rent for flight checks is a lot different .

no one around here will test me in my flightstar.

Rex Rodebush

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri

Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

I would suggest that it would be a good idea to get some tail dragger time in a J3, Champ, Cessna 140, etc. even though they are not "ultralights".  While doing that I would only do wheel landings if your instructor permits.  

The reason for that is I had about 40 hours in a J3 before I flew my Kolb Xtra.   I had a tendency to "pitch up" while landing my Kolb, resulting in hard landings as I would stall a few feet above the runway.  The Kolb does not require a nose up, stick in the belly for a stall landing as does other planes.  Essentially, it is in a stall configuration at what seems to be in a level condition as compared to the J3. Your landing attitude should be the same as your taxi attitude.  Doing wheel landings in a factory airplane will simulate this.  Also, grass is much easier to control a tail dragger in as it damps out the osculations. So it's good you have a grass field.  The above comments are my experiences in an Xtra.  Your Kolb may be different. As usual, my opinion only worth what you paid for it.

esp3500

Joined: 28 Feb 2020
Posts: 11

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:33 am Post subject: Re: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

Thanks Rex.  I will look around for someone who has a taildragger like that.

I may be biting off more than I can chew by trying to learn to fly two different types of planes at the same time, But so far I love both of them for completely different reasons.

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:47 pm Post subject: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

ESP3500

I was looking for a first name but. You have been handling our comments well. My two cents worth are: Kolbs are a non issue as far as a tail wheel airplane. Land on grass and you will wonder what all the big deal is with taildraggers. Land down wind on a hard surface where your landing speeds are a bit higher and you will have a better understanding of the tail wheel drama.

I taught myself to fly an ultralight, then got my private ticket and flew GA aircraft for 15 years before building my Kolb. I found my GA experiance to be a big negative. I just had a problem adjusting to the fact you need to keep your approach speed up and not flair till you are around a foot or a bit less from the ground. Pilot friends will soil themselves or grab at the controls if I don't really prepare them for a good Kolb landing. For that reason I don't recommend training in a GA airplane. With or without GA training, make it easier by keeping some power on till you touch down. Watch the videos even experienced pilots keep some power in, on approach. Kolbs are light with relatively high drag so they will slow down quickly when you flair and when you land in grass so a bit extra speed and or power doesn't add much to your landing roll. Had a forced landing once in a bean field where my landing roll was just a few inches even with a bit higher approach speed, even stayed upright. 

As usual, worth what you paid.

Rick Neilsen

1st Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:36 PM esp3500 <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net (letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "esp3500" <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net (letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 Thanks Rex.  I will look around for someone who has a taildragger like that.

 I may be biting off more than I can chew by trying to learn to fly two different types of planes at the same time, But so far I love both of them for completely different reasons.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497192#497192

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Rex Rodebush

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

Rick is right about Kolb's slowing down fast and rounding out just above the runway.  If you round out too high get down to just above the runway as quick as you can and hold it there because you don't have much time before stall.  As Rick said, extra power will buy you more time to adjust.  



Maybe it's because I'm a clutz but landing on a hard runway I still have to tell myself before touchdown to "keep it straight". If I loose concentration I find myself heading for the runway lights.  (How your tailwheel is set up also makes a difference.  Spring rate, control arm length , tailwheel geometry, etc.) So if you don't get taildragger time just get high speed taxi time in your Kolb to get the feel of it.  If you're just on grass all the time it's probably not much of an issue.

esp3500

Joined: 28 Feb 2020
Posts: 11

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:22 am Post subject: Re: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

Thanks guys. If nothing else you have been great at putting thing into perspective for me.  

Yes, grass runways are 90% of the runways around here and the couple of paved ones are not on my list of places I want to go, so I don't see a paved runway anywhere in my near future.



I will be doing quite a lot of taxiing before this kolb goes up because I am the one that restored it, and even though I was very very cautious and I think thorough, I still want some ground hours to see it is safe.

neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:08 pm Post subject: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

Ok one more thing. Be very careful not to taxi up to takeoff speed if you're not ready to fly. If you get to that point and chop the power you will find yourself airborne and climbing with little flying speed, add power and you will be nose down with reduced elevator power. Also crow hopps don't end well with high thrust line pusher airplanes. 

Repeat after me add power pull back on stick, reduce power push on stick.

As usual, with what you paid for it.

Rick Neilsen

Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 1:26 PM esp3500 <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net (letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "esp3500" <letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net (letstalkjesus(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 Thanks guys. If nothing else you have been great at putting thing into perspective for me.  

 Yes, grass runways are 90% of the runways around here and the couple of paved ones are not on my list of places I want to go, so I don't see a paved runway anywhere in my near future.

 

 I will be doing quite a lot of taxiing before this kolb goes up because I am the one that restored it, and even though I was very very cautious and I think thorough, I still want some ground hours to see it is safe.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=497218#497218

 

 

 

 

 

 

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esp3500

Joined: 28 Feb 2020
Posts: 11

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:29 am Post subject: Re: Kolb landing and take off instruction video???

Sounds like good advice.

The only thing more important than knowing what to do is knowing what NOT to do.

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