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echristley(at)att.net
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 Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 5:19 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape |
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Yes.
One end balloons out, and has a slot. I wrapped it around a tube and brought the other end through the slot. Cinched it up tight, leaving the velcro hanging. I'd then lay wires in, and stick the velcro around just enough to hold it. Once all the wires were in place, I'd rub the velcro down all around. It would only wrap a couple times on a 1/2" tube. I'd cut them in places where I was just trying to bundle the wires and not anchoring them.
That was a steel tube plane. On an aluminum plane or plastic plane, I'd rivet or glue on a tab with a slot in it. That is a little harder, because to get a good wrap you need to feed it back through the slot, sliding the velcro against itself. The velcro doesn't want to cooperate with that operation.
On Sunday, May 9, 2021, 02:12:12 PM EDT, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
| Quote: | | I've got some wires tied up in an airplane that have been there for years. Going back in to make modifications, the hardest part was finding the end of the velcro so that I could get the "unwrap" started. Just as strong as when I put them on. |
Good data point! Are your examples the
same product as above? I note that the
product cited is 1/2 x 8" . . . can you
cut them into smaller segments? 8" seems
like a LOT of stuff to wrap around a few
wires.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
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Voyager
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:03 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape |
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No sure about gorgeous, but hopefully at least respectable looking. If you want to see more details, I am keeping my builders log in the EAA site https://eaabuilderslog.org and you can search “Whiting” and find it.
Matt
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On May 10, 2021, at 8:16 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> wrote:
Matt,
It sounds like your plane will be gorgeous and exude the Professional Look. Hopefully I'll get to see it at Oshkosh one of these years. I was more interested in getting my plane safely into the air so I took the expedient path. Now I am planning to redo the panel and rewire that end of the plane, because I don't like how it looks. C'est la vie.
-- Art Z.
On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 6:52 AM Matthew S. Whiting <m.whiting(at)frontier.com (m.whiting(at)frontier.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Art,
I went to look at your video and found it was one I had already watched. 😁
I likely will do a hybrid approach on my S-21 as well. I will probably lace the fuselage runs since they are long and straight and I don’t believe they go through grommets, but I don’t remember what RANS recommends there.
The wing wires go through grommets in the ribs so I probably will spot tie those 3-4 times between each rib. A running lace going through grommets would be a nuisance.
I also plan to spot tie behind the panel as the runs will be short with many loops and branches. I have small velcro cord organizers made for charging cords and will use those as temporary organizers as I run the wires. However, I plan to replace all velcro with spot ties once I am done. Velcro just screams “amateur” to me, and yes, I realize I am building an experimental - amateur built airplane. However, as a retired EE, I don’t want my electrical system to scream amateur to everyone who sees it.
In front of the firewall, I will use Adel clamps and zip ties very sparingly. Even though zip ties are easy to use and easy to remove and used widely in the auto world, I just don’t like them. They just scream “mass produced” to me.
The nice thing about E-AB, is that we all get to choose our solutions and honor our biases. Cheers.
Matt
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On May 9, 2021, at 10:53 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Folks,
I'll chime in here, too. I used both lacing and Velcro ties in my airplane, on the cold side of the firewall. I laced the long runs of bundles of wires that I fabricated prior to installing them in the airplane. I used the lacing tape from Aircraft Spruce and made a little video on how I did it. No, it's not NASA spec but it's secure. I did have to remove the lacing from a couple of bundles and, believe me, it's secure!
Inside the cabin and behind the panel, I used the thin Velcro ties that Bob linked to. I like these because they are very thin and flexible so they are easy to use, even when you only have a few wires to tie up. I'm not worried about longevity. Name-brand Velcro has been around a long time so I trust the material. Furthermore, it's a low-risk application. If they start to deteriorate, I'll notice during the annual inspections and I can replace them. These ties are only securing bundles of wire, not heavy components which hold the airplane together.
On the hot side of the firewall, I used the normal heat tolerant stuff: zip-ties and Adel clamps.
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge.
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
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--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge.
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 11:21 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape |
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At 08:18 AM 5/10/2021, you wrote:
| Quote: | Yes.
One end balloons out, and has a slot. I wrapped it around a tube and brought the other end through the slot. Cinched it up tight, leaving the velcro hanging. I'd then lay wires in, and stick the velcro around just enough to hold it. Once all the wires were in place, I'd rub the velcro down all around. It would only wrap a couple times on a 1/2" tube. I'd cut them in places where I was just trying to bundle the wires and not anchoring them.
That was a steel tube plane. On an aluminum plane or plastic plane, I'd rivet or glue on a tab with a slot in it. That is a little harder, because to get a good wrap you need to feed it back through the slot, sliding the velcro against itself. The velcro doesn't want to cooperate with that operation. |
Interesting. I've got to go to Wichita
sometime this week. I'll drop by HD and
see if I can find some.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
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mmoyle
Joined: 15 Jun 2015
Posts: 10
Location: Platinum, Alaska
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:52 pm Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape |
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Laced mine...under the boot cowl and firewall forward...much nicer and less likely to cut oneself on the sharp stub from the tie wrap...if you don’t use flush cutting snips. I cut off all the tie wraps after lacing...[img]cid:7D3AC529-C16D-45B9-86A4-423219A18D4A[/img][img]cid:A3EA37F0-5C1E-468E-8541-F951E4B745E9[/img]
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On 10 May 2021, at 11:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
At 08:18 AM 5/10/2021, you wrote:
| Quote: | Yes.
One end balloons out, and has a slot. I wrapped it around a tube and brought the other end through the slot. Cinched it up tight, leaving the velcro hanging. I'd then lay wires in, and stick the velcro around just enough to hold it. Once all the wires were in place, I'd rub the velcro down all around. It would only wrap a couple times on a 1/2" tube. I'd cut them in places where I was just trying to bundle the wires and not anchoring them.
That was a steel tube plane. On an aluminum plane or plastic plane, I'd rivet or glue on a tab with a slot in it. That is a little harder, because to get a good wrap you need to feed it back through the slot, sliding the velcro against itself. The velcro doesn't want to cooperate with that operation. |
Interesting. I've got to go to Wichita
sometime this week. I'll drop by HD and
see if I can find some.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
|
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Voyager
Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 3:14 pm Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape |
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High temp cord or standard for FWF?
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On May 10, 2021, at 5:58 PM, Mark Moyle <moylemc(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Laced mine...under the boot cowl and firewall forward...much nicer and less likely to cut oneself on the sharp stub from the tie wrap...if you don’t use flush cutting snips. I cut off all the tie wraps after lacing...<image1.jpeg>
<image0.jpeg>
Sent from my iPad
| Quote: | On 10 May 2021, at 11:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
At 08:18 AM 5/10/2021, you wrote:
| Quote: | Yes.
One end balloons out, and has a slot. I wrapped it around a tube and brought the other end through the slot. Cinched it up tight, leaving the velcro hanging. I'd then lay wires in, and stick the velcro around just enough to hold it. Once all the wires were in place, I'd rub the velcro down all around. It would only wrap a couple times on a 1/2" tube. I'd cut them in places where I was just trying to bundle the wires and not anchoring them.
That was a steel tube plane. On an aluminum plane or plastic plane, I'd rivet or glue on a tab with a slot in it. That is a little harder, because to get a good wrap you need to feed it back through the slot, sliding the velcro against itself. The velcro doesn't want to cooperate with that operation. |
Interesting. I've got to go to Wichita
sometime this week. I'll drop by HD and
see if I can find some.
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
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yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 4:47 pm Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape |
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Standard lacing has worked fine for me for 15 years even when on things
that run a little over 100*C.
Ken
On 10/05/2021 7:13 PM, Matthew S. Whiting wrote:
| Quote: | High temp cord or standard for FWF?
Sent from my iPad
> On May 10, 2021, at 5:58 PM, Mark Moyle <moylemc(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Laced mine...under the boot cowl and firewall forward...much nicer
> and less likely to cut oneself on the sharp stub from the tie
> wrap...if you don’t use flush cutting snips. I cut off all the tie
> wraps after lacing...
> <image1.jpeg>
> <image0.jpeg>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On 10 May 2021, at 11:24 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III
>> <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
>>
>> At 08:18 AM 5/10/2021, you wrote:
>>> Yes.
>>>
>>> One end balloons out, and has a slot. I wrapped it around a tube
>>> and brought the other end through the slot. Cinched it up tight,
>>> leaving the velcro hanging. I'd then lay wires in, and stick the
>>> velcro around just enough to hold it. Once all the wires were in
>>> place, I'd rub the velcro down all around. It would only wrap a
>>> couple times on a 1/2" tube. I'd cut them in places where I was
>>> just trying to bundle the wires and not anchoring them.
>>>
>>> That was a steel tube plane. On an aluminum plane or plastic
>>> plane, I'd rivet or glue on a tab with a slot in it. That is a
>>> little harder, because to get a good wrap you need to feed it back
>>> through the slot, sliding the velcro against itself. The velcro
>>> doesn't want to cooperate with that operation.
>>
>> Interesting. I've got to go to Wichita
>> sometime this week. I'll drop by HD and
>> see if I can find some.
>>
>>
>> Bob . . .
>>
>> Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
>> survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
>> out of that stuff?"
>>
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dj_theis
Joined: 28 Aug 2017
Posts: 56
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:12 am Post subject: Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
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I’ve used a similar product that is a little less refined (no hole die cut in on end to wrap a nearby tube) and found it to be very useful for all sorts of wrapping tasks.
https://www.amazon.com/SJ3000-Scotchmate-Hook-Multiple-Sizes/dp/B007Y7JCJC/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8&th=1
I’ve always much preferred the 1/2” wide and have found it in black, red and green colors. Easily cuts to your desired length with a sharp knife or scissor. And yes, 8” is a bit long for all many / most wire bundles.
The spec on the 3M branded stuff is 93C.
[quote]
Interesting. I've got to go to Wichita
sometime this week. I'll drop by HD and
see if I can find some.[/quote]
I stopped by HD just this weekend and struggled to find the first product referenced, in all the normal places, like in the electrical area near the tie wraps. Finally ran across it on an end cap randomly placed near the windows and doors.
Dan Theis
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Dan Theis
Scratch building Sonex #1362
Still working on the Revmaster Alternator improvement |
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johnbright
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 165
Location: Newport News, VA
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
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Hook and loop ties at https://ziptie.com/more/hook-and-loop
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Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
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donjohnston
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Posts: 231
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Thread Lacing Tape |
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On my plane the only place I used zip ties (or tie wraps or whatever you want to call them) is where using lacing cord was impractical. Mostly hard to reach places. Used them in the engine compartment and never had a problem. Seems like every zip tie I've come across in an engine compartment almost disintegrates when you go to cut it off. I'm sure there are some that are made for that environment, but I bet they're a lot more money than lacing cord.
I did a couple of running laces but found it easier to just do spot ties.
And I find it much easier to cut a bundle open that's been tied with lacing cord. With zip ties you have to insert the cutter into the bundle. Always makes me nervous. With lacing cord you cut the knot outside of the bundle.
Just my two cents.
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david(at)carter.net
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:23 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape |
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At 10:48 AM 5/12/2021, you wrote:
| Quote: | Bob posted this link earlier to lacing cord at Aircraft Spruce - https://tinyurl.com/ydta87er
My question - polyester or nylon?
Thanks,
David |
Polyester
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:33 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape |
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At 10:23 AM 5/12/2021, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "donjohnston" <don(at)velocity-xl.com>
On my plane the only place I used zip ties (or tie wraps or whatever you want to call them) is where using lacing cord was impractical. Mostly hard to reach places. Used them in the engine compartment and never had a problem. Seems like every zip tie I've come across in an engine compartment almost disintegrates when you go to cut it off. I'm sure there are some that are made for that environment, but I bet they're a lot more money than lacing cord.
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You got that right. Run of the mill tye-wraps
are generally fabricated from Nylon which does
not weather well. Used outdoors exposed to sun
and or other extremes such as temperature swings
and hydrocarbons, the little fellers get brittle.
Rugged tye-wraps are available made from Tefzel
which IS more expensive . . . but not as bad
as when I first encountered them.
Steinair offers these products
https://tinyurl.com/yjcx26kh
The first time I looked these up (about 20
years ago) the little ones were over $1.00
in small quantities.
I can't imagine that one would use more than
say, 50 tye-wraps under cowl which would
have an acquisition cost on the order
of $17. Not too bad . . .
Bob . . .
Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"
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