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TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH (what to do)

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gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:23 am Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH (what to do)

Rob I agree with you but no one has said it so I will, the 

responsibility lies with the TBM pilot 100%. I am not being 

accusatory, it was a tragic accident, an accident but an 

accident that was preventable.

  

This is not the first time as you point out so instead of 

blaming, since the TBM pilot no doubt has to deal with 

this mentally, financially and legally; what can we learn?

   

  What can we learn?

  

Well 20/20 hind sight, Monday Morning QB, I would say 

if you are NOT 100% about where your plane is going 

STOP (or get out of the way). 

  

He could have called for wing walkers. Either pilots 

for that matter could have called.

   

  This happens at the airlines where pilots taxi into other 

planes or jet ways. I suppose the RV could have pulled 

off the taxiway or called for wing walkers for the TBM 

himself. 

   

   The lesson learned,  if faced with this scenario I

know I will do something to keep from being run over. 



  If following a plane I can't see, again I'll do something 

to get the safety margin back. I relize it's easy to say 

that now, I am not that smart but do have the luxury  

of learning, and if I'm uncomfortable, I'll do something 

about it. 

   

  I can tell you from this accident I will not ALLOW a big 

Taildragger follow me in Stop-N-Go Congo line. I have 

worried about this for years when a blind taildragger was 

following me post air-show line up. I was constantly 

turning 45 on the taxiway and looking over the shoulder.

Paranoid and not very comfortable. It does not have 

to be a TBM, a Cessna 190 will ruin your day. 

   

  

My procedure now is to wait for the line to go down. At 

any show there is a rush to leave right after the  field opens. 

30 minutes is usually plenty to get most out of the way. 30, 

45, 60 minutes is well worth the wait to make your departure 

more efficient and safe. DON'T BE IN A HURRY. Wait and 

watch the show after the show, the departures. Hopefully 

there will only be safe departures to watch, no tragedies.

  

My thoughts and Priers to all and their families.

  Sincerely George M RV-7/ATP/CFII_MEI

  

 

  >posted by: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca (rv7(at)b4.ca)>

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Having seen almost the same scenario played out at 

Reno a number of years ago, with a Sea Fury taxiing up 

the back end of a Lancair, I can see how it happens.  It's 

a large plane, with (I would guess) a high workload during

taxi and run-up.  Losing track of just how many small planes 

are in front of you would be very easy.  In the incident I  

witnessed, the Lancair was pushed ahead enough by the 

impact that by the time the Sea Fury shut down he was 

still a foot from the cockpit.  But the Lancair was still 

running, and as I recall it taxied itself further ahead before 

shutting down to get out and inspect the damage.



Still, my condolences to all involved, if anyone here knows 

any of them. As someone pointed out, it was a relatively 

incident-free year at Oshkosh this year, it's unfortunate 

that this had to be one of the incidents.

  >-Rob
	


   



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mike
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:18 am Post subject: Re: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH (what to do)

This accident hit me hard because I thought of it being me and the copilot being my wife.  I remember just a few weeks ago at arlington.  seems that there were a group of planes that thought they were the cats meow when I was already cleared to land that had to just cut right in front of me, I of course turned right and did a go around.  then on departure on sunday I had an incident(or potential incident) where 34 was the active runway all weekend, and I was departing at 6:30 in the morning before the tower opened and about 5 planes had already departed in about 5 minute seperations on 34.  I got to the runway and announced my departure and lined up on the runway ready to push the throttle when I heard two planes giving intentions to depart on 16.  I radiod that I was powering up on 34, no response, I aborted takeoff and while turning off the runway made another radio call, still no response, just as I got off the runway, two low wing small aircraft, one red, departed and flew right over us.  I know my radio worked because the cessna after me said some things and I did also to these jerks on the radio to them, and of course no response.

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Vince Frazier

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 132

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:29 am Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH (what to do)

Regarding the accident, I'd like to toss out a few comments just to

offer some info and some related experiences. 



I've been flying my Rocket for 2 years and 130 hours now.  It's great

fun but does have its share of weaknesses.  One of which is the lack of

visibility over the nose when on the ground.  Yes, I know all about

S-turns, so save your breath on those comments please.  



In my Rocket I found that I could not see an RV-6 until it was much less

than 100' away if the big nose was in the way.  Since we had a couple of

RV-8s collide on a taxiway near here a few years ago, it really bothered

me that the blind spot was, well... huge and inconvenient.  My RV

buddies would zoom down the taxiway because they had reasonable

visibility and I would follow along doing S-turns at a much slower

speed. 



So, being a bit of a gadget freak, I decided to add a camera and LCD

screen to my plane.  The Sony bullet color camera (VC-806B, standard

lens)and LCD screen were relatively cheap, only a few hundred bucks...

next to nothing in airplane dollars.  The camera is mounted in the left

cowl inlet and the heat and vibration don't seem to bother it at all.

The LCD screen (sorry, no p/n available) is mounted under the panel and

works well even in bright sun, although it isn't quite 100% immune to

sunlight glare.  



Now when I follow my RV buddies I still S-turn as needed, but often can

simply glance at the LCD screen for confirmation.  IT DOESN'T REPLACE

S-TURNS, but it gives a wonderful SUPPLEMENT. (I'm trying to choose my

words carefully because I know that I'll be flamed for being DIFFERENT.)

I use the camera/LCD combo during virtually all of my ground ops and

find it very useful!!! With a quick glance I can see pop cans, runway

lights, debris, small animals, cracks in the pavement, etc, etc.... all

sorts of things that I don't want to run over!!! 



Now to share some reactions... last year at Oshkosh a warbird pilot

asked me what the LCD screen was for.  When I told him that it was my

"taxi assist camera" he spun on his heel and walked away shaking his

head.  I thought "Hmmm, whatever".  I guess that he didn't think too

much of my system or my skills.  Now, after 2 recent accidents (that I

know of) and a fatality, I wonder which mindset is correct, mine or his?



http://vincesrocket.com/Additions%20after%2010-27-04.htm for more info



Vince



FWIW, I also wanted a cheap way to display my GRT EFIS info to the back

seat passenger in my plane.  GRT wants $2500 for a slave display.

Another camera and LCD screen easily displays the GRT info to the rear

seater and it cost 10% of what GRT wanted.  Not as elegant, but 100%

useful.

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_________________
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839 work
812-985-7309 home
F-1H Rocket, N540VF
http://vincesrocket.com/

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:28 am Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH (what to do)

I'm amazed at some of the reactions tosome solutions to a problem. 

 Yours was a great solution (IMHO).  I have the same problem in my 

Pitts, but no place to put a screen.  When I land after a formation 

flight I always have that nagging feeling that my 12 traffic on the 

runway is about to be eaten.  There's always plenty of room by the time 

I've slowed down where I can take a look ..... but that nagging feeling 

is always there.  I really like the camera solution ..... better than 

the multiple mirrir setuo in the cabanes!!!

Linn



do not archive

Frazier, Vincent A wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Regarding the accident, I'd like to toss out a few comments just to

offer some info and some related experiences. 



I've been flying my Rocket for 2 years and 130 hours now.  It's great

fun but does have its share of weaknesses.  One of which is the lack of

visibility over the nose when on the ground.  Yes, I know all about

S-turns, so save your breath on those comments please.  



In my Rocket I found that I could not see an RV-6 until it was much less

than 100' away if the big nose was in the way.  Since we had a couple of

RV-8s collide on a taxiway near here a few years ago, it really bothered

me that the blind spot was, well... huge and inconvenient.  My RV

buddies would zoom down the taxiway because they had reasonable

visibility and I would follow along doing S-turns at a much slower

speed. 



So, being a bit of a gadget freak, I decided to add a camera and LCD

screen to my plane.  The Sony bullet color camera (VC-806B, standard

lens)and LCD screen were relatively cheap, only a few hundred bucks...

next to nothing in airplane dollars.  The camera is mounted in the left

cowl inlet and the heat and vibration don't seem to bother it at all.

The LCD screen (sorry, no p/n available) is mounted under the panel and

works well even in bright sun, although it isn't quite 100% immune to

sunlight glare.  



Now when I follow my RV buddies I still S-turn as needed, but often can

simply glance at the LCD screen for confirmation.  IT DOESN'T REPLACE

S-TURNS, but it gives a wonderful SUPPLEMENT. (I'm trying to choose my

words carefully because I know that I'll be flamed for being DIFFERENT.)

I use the camera/LCD combo during virtually all of my ground ops and

find it very useful!!! With a quick glance I can see pop cans, runway

lights, debris, small animals, cracks in the pavement, etc, etc.... all

sorts of things that I don't want to run over!!! 



Now to share some reactions... last year at Oshkosh a warbird pilot

asked me what the LCD screen was for.  When I told him that it was my

"taxi assist camera" he spun on his heel and walked away shaking his

head.  I thought "Hmmm, whatever".  I guess that he didn't think too

much of my system or my skills.  Now, after 2 recent accidents (that I

know of) and a fatality, I wonder which mindset is correct, mine or his?



http://vincesrocket.com/Additions%20after%2010-27-04.htm for more info



Vince



FWIW, I also wanted a cheap way to display my GRT EFIS info to the back

seat passenger in my plane.  GRT wants $2500 for a slave display.

Another camera and LCD screen easily displays the GRT info to the rear

seater and it cost 10% of what GRT wanted.  Not as elegant, but 100%

useful.

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lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH (what to do)

Vince,



What a great idea! Safety should be our #1 concern.

You took something simple and put it to work for you

and others. If we don't police ourselves, it won't be

long and someone else will.



Thanks!



Darrell



do not archive





--- "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>

 

 Regarding the accident, I'd like to toss out a few

 comments just to

 offer some info and some related experiences. 

 

 I've been flying my Rocket for 2 years and 130 hours

 now.  It's great

 fun but does have its share of weaknesses.  One of

 which is the lack of

 visibility over the nose when on the ground.  Yes, I

 know all about

 S-turns, so save your breath on those comments

 please.  

 

 In my Rocket I found that I could not see an RV-6

 until it was much less

 than 100' away if the big nose was in the way. 

 Since we had a couple of

 RV-8s collide on a taxiway near here a few years

 ago, it really bothered

 me that the blind spot was, well... huge and

 inconvenient.  My RV

 buddies would zoom down the taxiway because they had

 reasonable

 visibility and I would follow along doing S-turns at

 a much slower

 speed. 

 

 So, being a bit of a gadget freak, I decided to add

 a camera and LCD

 screen to my plane.  The Sony bullet color camera

 (VC-806B, standard

 lens)and LCD screen were relatively cheap, only a

 few hundred bucks...

 next to nothing in airplane dollars.  The camera is

 mounted in the left

 cowl inlet and the heat and vibration don't seem to

 bother it at all.

 The LCD screen (sorry, no p/n available) is mounted

 under the panel and

 works well even in bright sun, although it isn't

 quite 100% immune to

 sunlight glare.  

 

 Now when I follow my RV buddies I still S-turn as

 needed, but often can

 simply glance at the LCD screen for confirmation. 

 IT DOESN'T REPLACE

 S-TURNS, but it gives a wonderful SUPPLEMENT. (I'm

 trying to choose my

 words carefully because I know that I'll be flamed

 for being DIFFERENT.)

 I use the camera/LCD combo during virtually all of

 my ground ops and

 find it very useful!!! With a quick glance I can see

 pop cans, runway

 lights, debris, small animals, cracks in the

 pavement, etc, etc.... all

 sorts of things that I don't want to run over!!! 

 

 Now to share some reactions... last year at Oshkosh

 a warbird pilot

 asked me what the LCD screen was for.  When I told

 him that it was my

 "taxi assist camera" he spun on his heel and walked

 away shaking his

 head.  I thought "Hmmm, whatever".  I guess that he

 didn't think too

 much of my system or my skills.  Now, after 2 recent

 accidents (that I

 know of) and a fatality, I wonder which mindset is

 correct, mine or his?

 



http://vincesrocket.com/Additions%20after%2010-27-04.htm
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   for more info

 

 Vince

 

 FWIW, I also wanted a cheap way to display my GRT

 EFIS info to the back

 seat passenger in my plane.  GRT wants $2500 for a

 slave display.

 Another camera and LCD screen easily displays the

 GRT info to the rear

 seater and it cost 10% of what GRT wanted.  Not as

 elegant, but 100%

 useful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,

 Admin.



 

 

 

  

  

  

 

 

 

 


	




__________________________________________________

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n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:27 am Post subject: Re: TBM Avenger/RV-6 accident at OSH (what to do)

 	  Quote: 	
		   I guess that he didn't think too 

much of my system or my skills. 	




 Since seeing your install have purchased the components for my plane. Recent episode at OSH has added new impetus to get off my lazy butt and install it.



Vince's install below

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_________________
Milt

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