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kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: New To The List

Hi   

   

I want to introduce my self to the -10 List.   

   

During an evening discussion last week at KOSH, I was chatting with an acquaintance about homebuilt and how I want to build *something* *someday*. In past years I had looked at some of the plastic designs but I am a bit wary of putting a lot of time & money into these designs. My acquaintance suggested that I look at the RV-10.  

   

To make a long story short, I was quite impressed with the aluminum design, match drilled quick build kit and performance specs of the -10. For the moment, my investment is limited to the info kits sold at the Van booth at KOSH. What I am doing is sorting out the logistics of building an a/c. This includes finding out what builder support is available locally and seeing what sheet metal courses are available at the local trade school. I am also researching Canadian building / inspection / certification requirements etc.  

   

I do have a few questions for the list, questions that may help me decide if I want to take Van’s $30k demo ride.   

     How difficult is it to follow      the building instructions?  
How much space is required? My      wife has graciously donated 2 of the 3 bays in our garage (provided her      car doesn’t winter outside). I expect to have a 20’ x 20’      space available. Is this sufficient for all but the final assembly?  
The Van info includes a flyer      from AIR-CRAFTERS who operate a build center. They suggest that I can      build the -10 tail kit in 10 days at their facility after teaching me to      do things right. Does anyone have experience with this firm?  Is this      a worthwhile investment?  
What things should a first time      builder be wary of?    

   

Cheers  

   

Les Kearney  

Alberta, Canada

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: New To The List

Hi Les,  Sorry, but we don't welcome canadians here, and this

list is no good at support. <Just kidding!>



The plans are pretty good to follow in the beginning and progressively

get a little harder as you go, but are very do-able for most people,

especially after you gain the experience in the early sections.



I built my tail section in 1/2 of our 2 car garage.  After you join

it to the fuselage, you'll need to build probably in a 2 car garage

and at that point you're best off either hanging your wings on a

sidewall or storing them elsewhere.  But if you get that 20x20'

area, you should be OK.  Adding another 1-2' along one side would

give you plenty for pretty much anything.



Can't answer the builder assist question, but it seems like there

are a few good ones that might be worthwhile if you want to get

a fast start.  Beware though that if you know you're going to

finish the kit, you probably should order all kit sections

at once if you go that route, because you're going to start needing

the wings soon, and those won't take you too long and you'll

need the fuselage.  There's enough delay in getting those kit

sections that you'll need to think farther ahead.



There's nothing outstanding to be wary of.  Do a very good job

of planning a realistic final cost, and plan the timeline and

budget to make sure you'll be able to meet the specified

costs.  There is a lot of creep that can happen in the

estimate, so plan for it.  It's nice to see builders take

on projects responsibly so they don't jeopardize anything of

major importance in their personal lives.



Good luck and you came to the right place to ask these

questions...this list is fantastic.  Hope you get lots of

replies.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Les Kearney wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi

 

 

     * How difficult is it to follow the building instructions?

     * How much space is required? My wife has graciously donated 2 of

       the 3 bays in our garage (provided her car doesn’t winter

       outside). I expect to have a 20’ x 20’ space available. Is this

       sufficient for all but the final assembly?

     * The Van info includes a flyer from AIR-CRAFTERS who operate a

       build center. They suggest that I can build the -10 tail kit in 10

       days at their facility after teaching me to do things right. Does

       anyone have experience with this firm?  Is this a worthwhile

       investment?

     * What things should a first time builder be wary of?

 Cheers

 

 Les Kearney

 

 Alberta, Canada

millstees(at)ameritech.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:44 pm Post subject: New To The List

Hi Les:

  

 I am currently building an RV-10.  I have0 completed the tail and wings, and am just starting on the fuselage.  I0 will attempt to answer your questions below:

  

    How difficult is it to follow the0   building instructions? The first section is very detailed, with indepth explainations0   of everything.  Later it get much less detailed, and assumes you know the0   obvious information.  All in all, it is very well written and0   illustrated.   
How much space is0   required? My wife has graciously donated 2 of the 3 bays in our garage    (provided her car doesn’t winter outside). I expect to have a 20’ x 20’ space0   available. Is this sufficient for all but the final assembly?0   I have a 3 car garage, and have0   built the tail and wings in 1 bay of the garage...I have the same agreement0   with my wife, her car is in the garage, and I store the finished wings in0   the other bay.  I am about to expand into part of the second bay, as the0   fuselage grows.   
The Van info includes0   a flyer from AIR-CRAFTERS who operate a build center. They suggest that I can0   build the -10 tail kit in 10 days at their facility after teaching me to do0   things right. Does anyone have experience with this firm?  Is this a0   worthwhile investment? I don't know, however, I have heard good0   results from other builders.  Van's has a tool box that you can purchase0   that is very good to practice on, you do all the different types of0   riveting.  many people, my self included, just jump right in, and end up0   screwing-up the vertical stab skins, and re-doing0   them.   
What things should a0   first time builder be wary of? Waiting to order your0   kit until after the first of the year, when prices go up. Don't buy anything0   until you are ready to install, especially electronics.  Its very    tempting, but you end up with outdated, overpriced stuff.  Buy the RV0   tool kit from one of the tool companies, and a small band saw, and drill0   press.
  

 Hope this helps..take a0 good look at Tim Olson's web page, which you can access through the Van's web0 site.

  

 Steve0 Mills

 404860 RV-10

 Naperville,  Illinois    630-308-7476 cell

 working on0 fuselage

 [quote]   ---

jamcd(at)platinum.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: New To The List

---

change99

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1
Location: Cabot, AR

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: New To The List

i went to Alexander Tech in Griffin GA and built my tail there in 7 days. i would recommend them very highly. They have built over 200 RV tails and 10+ RV10 tails. I learned a great deal and I think it was a quality job.



Change99

finishing tail cone

do not archive

LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: New To The List

In a message dated 8/3/2006 11:30:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,0 change99(at)centurytel.net writes:

 i went0   to Alexander Tech in Griffin GA and built my tail there in 70 days[/quote]

 

 Just HOW much did you build in 7 days????   The entire tail?????0 rudder, elevators and all?

  

  

  

  

  

  

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

armywrights(at)adelphia.n
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: New To The List

Part of what Tim Olson meant to me when he said to plan out your costs is that, for an RV-10, the demo ride is between $90-120k (US).  :]]  

   

I’ve been building in less than a 20x20 workshop.  When I got my QB Wings and Fuse in, I had to store some of the tail sections in my rented hangar at the airport.  When my finishing kit came in I bought some shelves for many parts, put the carton with the front seats on top of the dresser in the bedroom, and put the door skins and cowlings in the hangar.  It’s amazing how much time you can spend just walking around your large parts in the shop in order to get a tool. Oh, my windshield and side windows are in the front hall in the house as well.  This HAS to be a family undertaking!  

   

With the level of detail that’s written into the plans I recommend as Rick(?) did that you buy Van’s toolbox practice kit, the RV tool kit from somewhere (Avery, Isham’s, Wicks, etc), get lots of insight from the list, and jump in with both feet.  The hardest hole to drill and rivet to set are the first ones!  Boil this statement down to say that if time is on your side, skip the build center.  The tail kit section is where you really lay your personal skills down and the time invested here will pay dividends in later subkits.  I know others will chime in saying the build centers really helped bolster their confidence so this obviously is merely from my perspective.  I attended a SportAir workshop on general sheetmetal work before I started building.  Besides some of the info papers they put out I really think I could have begun construction without the workshop, but only due to the level of detail in the plans.  

   

Also as a first time builder, the biggest thing I try to be wary of is me.  It’s easy to get bogged down on a task or think that there has to be a “perfect” way to do things.  Also, everyone out there in this industry will try to sell you something that may or may not save money, increase performance, or lessen your build time.  It’s up to you to wade through it and decide what you’ll want for your plane, and you just need to be comfortable with those choices.  Once again this very active list will be more than happy to chime in and give its collective thoughts on anything you’d like.  

   

Take a trip back to the matronics webpage and learn how to search the RV-10 archive as well as using the “D0 N0T ARCHlVE” string in your emails.  There is SO much material in the archive.  Most other questions past that point will be answered on Tim Olson’s webpage www.myrv10.com.    

   

Rob Wright  

#392  

Wings  

Pick up engine tomorrow!        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Les Kearney

 Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006 9:04 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: New To The List  

  

     

Hi   

   

I want to introduce my self to the -10 List.   

   

During an evening discussion last week at KOSH, I was chatting with an acquaintance about homebuilt and how I want to build *something* *someday*. In past years I had looked at some of the plastic designs but I am a bit wary of putting a lot of time & money into these designs. My acquaintance suggested that I look at the RV-10.  

   

To make a long story short, I was quite impressed with the aluminum design, match drilled quick build kit and performance specs of the -10. For the moment, my investment is limited to the info kits sold at the Van booth at KOSH. What I am doing is sorting out the logistics of building an a/c. This includes finding out what builder support is available locally and seeing what sheet metal courses are available at the local trade school. I am also researching Canadian building / inspection / certification requirements etc.  

   

I do have a few questions for the list, questions that may help me decide if I want to take Van’s $30k demo ride.   

     How      difficult is it to follow the building instructions?  
How      much space is required? My wife has graciously donated 2 of the 3 bays in      our garage (provided her car doesn’t winter outside). I expect to      have a 20’ x 20’ space available. Is this sufficient for all      but the final assembly?  
The      Van info includes a flyer from AIR-CRAFTERS who operate a build center.      They suggest that I can build the -10 tail kit in 10 days at their      facility after teaching me to do things right. Does anyone have experience      with this firm?  Is this a worthwhile investment?  
What      things should a first time builder be wary of?    

   

Cheers  

   

Les Kearney  

Alberta, Canada

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:57 pm Post subject: New To The List

How far did you have to ship your completed tail, and how difficult was 

the shipping?



change99 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 i went to Alexander Tech in Griffin GA and built my tail there in 7 days. i would recommend them very highly. They have built over 200 RV tails and 10+ RV10 tails. I learned a great deal and I think it was a quality job.

 

 Change99

 finishing tail cone

 do not archive

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=52202#52202

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

ainut(at)hiwaay.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: New To The List

you have a contact phone number for Alexander Tech, please?



Thanks,

David M.

LIKE2LOOP(at)aol.com wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   In a message dated 8/3/2006 11:30:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

 change99(at)centurytel.net writes:



     i went to Alexander Tech in Griffin GA and built my tail there in

     7 days



 Just HOW much did you build in 7 days????   The entire tail????? 

 rudder, elevators and all?

  

  

  

  

  

  

 DO NOT ARCHIVE



------------------------------------------------------------------------



No virus found in this incoming message.

pascalreid(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 8:17 pm Post subject: New To The List

Les;

 Not too long ago I was in the same predicament. I0 haven't started building yet, but I can tell you what I have0 discovered.

 I've looked at the plans and if you take them and0 review them a few times before starting each step than start that step first in0 your mind how you'll do it than with the actual pieces you'll find that it is0 rather simple, if there is confusion initially you go to someone like Tim0 Olson's website  http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/index.html and0 see how he explains that step.

  

 2 Car garage should be plenty for the majority of0 the kits

  

 I would suggest you take a Sportair course that0 will accomplish a couple of objectives

 1) Is Sheet metal something you can see spending0 1000 plus hours working with?

 2) Is kit building everything you hoped it is- ie0 do you understand the process, "gotchas" that may be encountered,0 etc

 I have also heard there is a company in Oregon0 where the instructor is first rate - I don't know enough about this but I0 believe it maybe http://www.synergyair.com/ 

  

 If you are looking to move this project along0 quickly Aircrafters is a good solution to get the tail built quickly and learn0 the foundation as you mentioned, you'll want to get the QB's as well0 then.

  

 I gained much from my instructor, Dan Checkoway, in0 the Sportair course and highly recommend it.

  

 What things should a first time0 builder be wary of? 

 1) 1300-1500 hours spent and maybe0 even consumed in this project

 2) There are costs for tools, kits,0 insurance, hangar, fuel, and maintenance in general, all adds up to more than0 expected initially. Van's makes it that it's inexpensive for the first kit and0 the price doubles than quadriples as you move into the final kits for the0 fusellage and finishing kit. This is when the engine and avionics are0 being bought so expect that as you move along.

  

  

 The RV-10 is a sweet flying0 aircraft. I was fortunate, a builder in California spent time talking to me and0 took me for a flight I will never forget,  for his willingness to assist0 and help me go broke building this plane. This is a solid group of people. I0 would suggest looking for a fellow Canadian builder that will take you for a0 flight, if possible, just be prepared to know that you will go into overdrive to0 start wanting to build this plane after that experience.

 My final advice is search the web0 for "RV-10", you'll find builders like Deems and Tim have excellent step by step0 pictures and descriptions, this will give you a really good sense of what is0 involved in building this plane.

  

 Best of success in your research,0 and hopeful building. Do let us know how things work out.

  

 Pascal

  

 ---

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: New To The List

I’m not sure if anyone else mentioned this but if you are a new builder, look for the nearest EAA chapter and introduce yourself. If you’re lucky, someone else will be building the same plane you are, if not, there is an incredible amount of talent and experience available. The guys will bend over backward to lend a hand, advice, whatever. If you need special tools, a bolt or rivet or just a helping hand on occasion it will be there. Additionally, I have made many new friends as well as built a RV-9A and halfway finished an RV-10. Oh, and be sure to ask them which primer is the best.  

Albert Gardner  

Yuma, AZ

_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:33 am Post subject: New To The List

[*]How difficult is it to follow the building instructions?0 [*]Easy at first, little more thought required later on...still easy [*]How much space is required?  [*]I did it in a 20 x 20 garage, no room for car after starting fuselage. [*]The Van info includes a flyer from AIR-CRAFTERS who operate a build center. They suggest that I can build the -10 tail kit in 10 days at their facility after teaching me to do things right. Does anyone have experience with this firm? No, We don't need no stinking classes!! Is this a worthwhile investment? Mighta saved me an extra trim tab. [*]What things should a first time builder be wary of? Nothing, take your time read the plans, cleco, study check twice drill once, dimples usually go in from the outside on the skins. Prime everything, no discussions on that. Buy a pneumatic squeezer. When you first talk of riveting make sure you emphasis the "B" in buck when you ask your wife to help you buck some rivets. You lose all but your really good friends but will make more here,  Half your neighbors will think your crazy, just tell them it's a boat until the gear legs go on. Deburr's are not a football team from Chicago. Don't sell the plane when your done or everyone will beatup on you for being a greedy Canadian profiteer. Two ways to do things, the acceptable standards method aka "John Cox method" and the other method which is wrong and the one rivet you think is really OK is the golden rivet that will fail and the ship will fully delaminate and flutter to the ground.

 

Last Thing, it's a blast, totally rewarding, you will meet lots of intersting people without having to travel to foreign lands and kill them. Welcome aboard. 

Rick S. 40185

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

jdalton77(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:33 am Post subject: New To The List

Welcome!  JUST DO IT!  That's what I did0 - and I'm into the fuselage now and having a ball.

  

    How difficult is it0   to follow the building instructions?0   
        EASY!  I'm not too    mechanical and am having no problem.  There are also tons of websites0   that can help you if you get stuck.   
How much space is0   required? My wife has graciously donated 2 of the 3 bays in our garage    (provided her car doesn’t winter outside). I expect to have a 20’ x 20’ space0   available. Is this sufficient for all but the final assembly?0   
        I'm doing mine in a 24x32'0   garage.  I won't be able to put the wings on here.  That'll have to0   happen in the hangar.  I'm still debating if I'm going to paint it here0   or not.  I am priming it in the garage though.   
The Van info includes0   a flyer from AIR-CRAFTERS who operate a build center. They suggest that I can0   build the -10 tail kit in 10 days at their facility after teaching me to do0   things right. Does anyone have experience with this firm?  Is this a0   worthwhile investment?0   
    I chose to build at home and0   completed the tail very quickly on my own.  I know some people love the0   build center, but I think I would have missed out on a lot of interesting0   building if I had gone there.     
What things should a0   first time builder be wary of?    
    You'll need lots of time, lot's of tools, and a very0   understanding family to get this done.  You can get a lot of tools cheap0   at Harbor Freight, but some of them you'll need the real thing and they aint0   cheap.  

 BY THE WAY, IT'S A $40,000 test ride and that's before the engine and0 avionics (includes $5k in stuff you'll need just to put the tail together . .0 .

 [list]   [*]   [*]---

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: New To The List

Rick, you really liked that ol' Golden Rivet comment from

way back, didn't you. 



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive



 >Two

 	  Quote: 	
		   ways to do things, the acceptable standards method aka "John Cox method" 

 and the other method which is wrong and the one rivet you think is 

 really OK is the golden rivet that will fail and the ship will fully 

 delaminate and flutter to the ground.

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 12:07 pm Post subject: New To The List

Heh heh...yup. 



I related it to the golden BB that fighter jocks were always worried about. 



You got this nifty stealth fighter but when the sky is full of triple A, some gunner might just get lucky, hence the golden BB.



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: New To The List

I went to the quick build tail class at Alexender Tech center.  It was a 

great learning experience and with their assistance I completed the Tail 

and Empennage in 2 weeks.  You can see photos of my build here 

<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/Log/Emp/Alexander/index.html>



Larry Rosen

#356

 	  Quote: 	
		  

     * The Van info includes a flyer from AIR-CRAFTERS who operate a

       build center. They suggest that I can build the -10 tail kit in

       10 days at their facility after teaching me to do things right.

       Does anyone have experience with this firm?  Is this a

       worthwhile investment?

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

lcaune(at)cablelan.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:11 am Post subject: New to the list

Les



I am a builder from Kelowna working on the doors at present.  I am an  

AME-M and an AME-S teaching aircraft structures for BCIT.  If you  

ever get out this way I'll give you a mini start-up course which will  

safely get you started on this great project. Drop by or call Len  

250-766-5456.

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: New to the list

Hi Len



Many thanks for the very kind offer - I just may make my way out to Kelowna

to see your project. I have made contact with NAIT to see if they have a

programme that will work with my schedule. I would like to take a course in

metal work as I have never done this before.



I have also been toying with taking a SportAir course or perhaps even trying

one of the builder assist centers for the empennage. I would guess that

after 8-10 days of intense work, I should acquire most of the skills

required to complete the airframe. Fiberglass will be another thing!



Cheers



Les Kearney

Edmonton, Alberta

(780) 707-0169

 



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