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Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

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parahawk

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Washington State

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:57 pm Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

Can anyone help me with info about the best location to mount the 1350 softpack BRS and what modifactions have to be done to the plexiglass above the rocket.

Or is there a way to install it outside on top ??



I am looking for ideas.



Thanks a lot

_________________
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

When I looked into installing one, the proceedure was

to have it fire out thru the side of the fuselage just

behind the baggage compartment.  This is so if you

have a wing fold over the top, the rocket isn't

blocked.



This installation has to be done before covering

though.  The rocket has no problem shooting thru the

fabric, but the chute lines are run up and over the

right side top structure right under the turtledeck. 

When the rocket fires, the chute is pulled out thru

the side and the lines rip the fabric up to this

point.  Then the turtledeck is ripped lose and the

overhead canopy is torn off too.  The shroud lines are

connected to the four corners of the cockpit to wing

structure, so it will hang relatively level from

there.



You will have some damage from its use, but a lot less

than without it.



The alternative is the somewhat aerodynamic hard pack

mounted on top of the cabin, but it sounds like you

already have the soft pack.



A velcroed door built into the turtledeck for the

rocket and parachute to shoot up thru is another

choice.  The turtledeck and top canopy are still going

to be torn up a bit though, depending on where you run

the lines to the wing/fuse hard points.



It has been 6 years since I looked into this.  Maybe

BRS has some new methods?



Kurt S.



--- parahawk <alfi98596(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Can anyone help me with info about the best location

 to mount the 1350 softpack BRS and what modifactions

 have to be done to the plexiglass above the rocket.

 Or is there a way to install it outside on top ??

 

 I am looking for ideas.

 

 Thanks a lot


	


__________________________________________________

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:17 am Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

Attached are some diagrams that BRS sent me when I was looking into a chute. These however aren't for a soft pak (canister), but they will show how the chords are mounted. I would think BRS would have the same info for a soft pak...jsut ask em. 

  Dan, Mesa

  KF-IV 912-s / building



kurt schrader <smokey_bear_40220(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: kurt schrader 



When I looked into installing one, the proceedure was

to have it fire out thru the side of the fuselage just

behind the baggage compartment. This is so if you

have a wing fold over the top, the rocket isn't

blocked.



This installation has to be done before covering

though. The rocket has no problem shooting thru the

fabric, but the chute lines are run up and over the

right  side top structure right under the turtledeck. 

When the rocket fires, the chute is pulled out thru

the side and the lines rip the fabric up to this

point. Then the turtledeck is ripped lose and the

overhead canopy is torn off too. The shroud lines are

connected to the four corners of the cockpit to wing

structure, so it will hang relatively level from

there.



You will have some damage from its use, but a lot less

than without it.



The alternative is the somewhat aerodynamic hard pack

mounted on top of the cabin, but it sounds like you

already have the soft pack.



A velcroed door built into the turtledeck for the

rocket and parachute to shoot up thru is another

choice. The turtledeck and top canopy are still going

to be torn up a bit though, depending on where you run

the lines to the wing/fuse hard points.



It has been 6 years since I looked into this. Maybe

BRS has some new methods?



Kurt

3575__Kitfox_III_Canister_Install_PG_1.pdf

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parahawk

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 21
Location: Washington State

Posted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

I have not got the BRS yet and my plane is built.  BRS tells me they only suitable chute is the 1350  softpack mounted inside in the baggage area. they sent a drawing similar to yours but it has the Bridle routed through the fabric to the outside and around the fuselage and covered with a double sided tape to hold it agains the fuselage.  Seems to me me kind of an unusual procedure, but I really don't know and probably have to go with their suggestion.

Thanks\

Al

_________________
Flying is the highest form of life on earth.

kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:31 am Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

I would not even buy a BRS unless you are flying over very nasty areas.  The

kitfox can land just about anywhere if you just maintain control and fly the

airplane.  With the BRS , once you pull the handle you go down a little

slower but you have no control over where you go down.



--

dave(at)cfisher.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:44 am Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

So true,



My motta is if the aeroplane needa parachute -- I will not be in it.

Dave



PS   If any Kitfoxes in SW Ontario  a few are going to Reeces Corners for 

breakfast soon .  Last minute deal here

Reeces Corner is a grass strip  just east of Sarnia Port Huron   and in CFS

we 1/8 mile vis now  but should lift in next hour or so.





---

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:37 am Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

On Sep 17, 2006, at 2:30 PM, kirkhull wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I would not even buy a BRS unless you are flying over very nasty areas.


	


I tend to agree with you and Dave, Kirk.

I won't argue against BRS ballistic chute, safety is something 

personal. Have one if it gives you peace of mind. But I don't want one 

because I am afraid to use it ... when I don't really need it. Once 

deployed, the chute takes you wherever the wind blows. You are no 

longer a pilot, merely a passenger taken by the wind.

Which condition would call for the chute? Loosing a wing? I don't think 

any Kitfox has ever done that and when it happened at my airfield, to a 

Jora ultralight, the pilot, in the mad spin, didn't manage to release 

the chute.

Of course, ballistic chute manufacturers will show you many cases of 

accidents where life was saved by their product. ... or was it? How do 

you know the end of an event that didn't happen?



In any case, my philosophy is to fly as the European utralight rule 

obliges us to: Always with a possible landing site in sight. Apart from 

loosing entirely a wing, I can't think of what could happen to my 

Kitfox, that would require a chute. I can climb or descend on the 

throttle only. I can turn with only the flaperon or the rudder. What 

else could happen? Please correct me if I miss something.

I think my, and my eventual passenger's safety, is better served by 

frequent training like dead-stick landings and manoeuvring without one 

control surface. I have never landed without touching the elevator, 

though. But I know I could make a non-fatal landing without it.

Ballistic chutes are like survival rafts at sea. When it gets pretty 

nasty, one thinks: "I wanna go home and pronto!" But the safest way 

home is not always the shortest one.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

kirkhull(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:18 am Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

There are other reasons for a BRS but they just don't happen enough to worry

about.  I don't know the exact #s but I don't believe the Brs brings you

down much slower then the stall speed of a fox.  There have been some cases

where the BRS was deployed when all the pilot needed to do was Switch tanks

or pull carb heat.  The end result was a destroyed aircraft ( even with a

BRS the plane will be substantially damaged on landing even if you land in

an open field)



--

rliebmann(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 7:34 am Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

I agree with Michel's quote:  "Once you deploy the chute you are no longer 

in control of the plane."     The reason I put the BRS in my plane is 

because I fly in a high traffic area with students all around. If I were to 

have a mid-air without the chute I'm a gonner. But the NTSB says that it is 

usually not the mid-air that kills you, its the crash at the end of the 

fall.

The chute gives me much peace of mind.



Ron    N55KF

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

I thought seriously about getting one for my plane

because I intend to fly over rough terrain and at

higher altitude where stall speed will be much higher

ground speed.  It would give peace of mind when there

is no place to land.



I think if you have an operating engine and rudder,

you can steer it a little like a decending blimp and

pick a better spot, if close and you have time.  That

means the cause for using it is not the engine/prop.



I understand it will give a 20 mph verticle hit to the

plane.  That is about 30 feet per second vs 5 feet per

second max for a "normal" landing.



For consideration:



When checking the accident records for all Fox's, back

around 2000, there were none that would have been

saved by a BRS.  The highest failure points were

stalls on takeoff at about 300 feet.  Not enough time

to deploy.



Second, my chute was 39 lbs.



Third, and the clincher was that there were no rockets

available for my chute when I wanted one due to the

NTSB restrictions after the Florida crash.



So I don't have one, but may add one later if the

mental work calls for it when I move to the Rockies.



As Michel said, it becomes a personal safety decision

in the end.



Kurt S.



__________________________________________________

dan(at)azshowersolutions.
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 8:47 am Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

All of these reasons are sound...whether you choose to install a BRS or not. I tend to agree with Ron, as I too fly in a highly concentrated area of student training.  I have had one close encounter of the worst kind due to someone simply not following proceedure. You tend to remember those things and plan accordingly. If you are clipped and loose control, there's not one of us here that would mind having that rip chord behind you.

  Dan, Mesa

  314DW



Ron Liebmann <rliebmann(at)comcast.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Ron Liebmann" 



I agree with Michel's quote: "Once you deploy the chute you are no longer 

in control of the plane." The reason I put the BRS in my plane is 

because I fly in a high traffic area with students all around. If I were to 

have a [quote][b]

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: Kitfox IV-1200 BRS mount

On Sep 17, 2006, at 6:47 PM, Dan Billingsley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I tend to agree with Ron, as I too fly in a highly concentrated area 

 of student training.


	


That is, indeed, a good argument. Just like the inflatable raft is a 

good thing in a yacht that burns down, in calm waters. But my personal 

consideration is also the fear of using it in panic and not when really 

needed. Like, what do I do if I find myself suddenly in IMC? Getting 

out of it by pulling he cord is tempting, but maybe not wise when I 

don't even see what's under me. Could I resist the temptation?

Just a thought.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

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