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yet another rivet question

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Jeff Bearden

Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 4
Location: St. Augustine, FL

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: yet another rivet question

I know you experienced folks get tired of the "is this crappy rivet ok?" bit, but I gotta post another one.  I'm back riveting the stiffeners into the rudder and elevator skins of an -8.  The rudder stiffener rivets turned out fine, but upon inspection of the bottom side of the port elevator, I found about 1/3 of the rivets look like the pictures.  Essentially, the shop head is flattening half of the dimple.



These are the 3.5 length rivets as specified on the drawings.  I'm match drilling to #40, then dimpling.  This sure seems to give an awfully big hole for the 3/32 rivets to move around in, although the rudder turned out ok.



As far as I can tell, my surface (back rivet plate) is level and the gun is perpendicular.  The working pressure is about 44 psi (avery 2x gun).



I seem to get slightly better results by driving the rivets very slowly.



Any advice to improve my technique??

Thanks,

Jeff[img][/img]

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_________________
-Jeff Bearden
St. Augustine, FL
RV-8 #82563
------------------

Bob Collins

Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 470
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: yet another rivet question

Jeff, this isn't particulrly unusual. But you're not holding your rivet set

completely perpendicular to the piece. Also, be sure the skin is not lifting

off the backrivet plate at all.



Bob

St. Paul



[quote] --

_________________
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Letters from Flyover Country
http://rvnewsletter.blogspot.com/

BAGSTERJR(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: yet another rivet question

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  It is true about the skin lifting up off the back riveting plate.  For  lack of anything better, I triple bagged some sand in one gallon zip lock  freezer bags from the kids sand box and placed one bag on each side of the  stiffner I was riveting.  The instructions do mention weighting it down as  you rivet.  After a couple of partial flat dimples, the light bulb went  on.  It really helps with the elevators.  

 Bill 

 7A ---wings

 [quote]   ---

bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:25 pm Post subject: yet another rivet question

Jeff,



I used -4 rivets there and for most of where Van's calls for -3.5's. I

never can make 'em come out right when they're too short. I usually

measure up the first one with a rivet depth gauge (Avery or Cleaveland)

and use whatever size will work the best. Places where there're more

layers, I measure again.



Pax,



Ed Holyoke



--

jason(at)hills.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:48 pm Post subject: yet another rivet question

Jeff,



I don't qualify as one of the experienced folks here -- I just  

started on my -8 empenage kit last weekend. But I spent last Saturday  

having an experienced RV builder help me get started. He has built a  

number and worked on many more (has a shop/hanger at AWO). He had me  

bring my right elevator parts up to his place to work for the day, so  

I started on the right elevator.



Anyway, he wasn't happy with how the 3.5 rivets were working out for  

me after the first couple, so had me try 3.0's. Which although just a  

hair shorter than they should be, they easily made perfect shop heads  

of the right size. So we used the 3.0's for the rest of the  

stiffeners. (Hmm... not sure if the kit comes with enough 3.0's, but  

he had plenty for me to use).



 From my less educated perspective, it seems that the 3.5 is a hair  

long for the thin skin of the elevator, and the 3.0 is probably a  

hair short. In any case I was able to make consistently good shop  

heads with the 3.0's rather than the 3.5's called for in the plans.



I didn't have any problems with the lengths called for everywhere  

else in the plans (I finished the elevator last night).



..Jason

On Oct 5, 2006, at 5:55 PM, Jeff Bearden wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I know you experienced folks get tired of the "is this crappy rivet  

 ok?" bit, but I gotta post another one.  I'm back riveting the  

 stiffeners into the rudder and elevator skins of an -8.  The rudder  

 stiffener rivets turned out fine, but upon inspection of the bottom  

 side of the port elevator, I found about 1/3 of the rivets look  

 like the pictures.  Essentially, the shop head is flattening half  

 of the dimple.



 These are the 3.5 length rivets as specified on the drawings.  I'm  

 match drilling to #40, then dimpling.  This sure seems to give an  

 awfully big hole for the 3/32 rivets to move around in, although  

 the rudder turned out ok.



 As far as I can tell, my surface (back rivet plate) is level and  

 the gun is perpendicular.  The working pressure is about 44 psi  

 (avery 2x gun).



 I seem to get slightly better results by driving the rivets very  

 slowly.



 Any advice to improve my technique??

 Thanks,

 Jeff[img][/img]



 --------

 -Clam

 ------------------





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66083#66083





 Attachments:



 http://forums.matronics.com//files/rivetok1_medium_164.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/rivetok2_medium_128.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/rivetok3_medium_166.jpg

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 3:59 am Post subject: yet another rivet question

Jeff,

  

 I too don't understand why the "3/32" rivets are so small for the  holes.  If the rivets were .100 inch instead of .094 they would fit much  better.

  

 Now I'll give another plug for pre-squeezing the rivets.  Use your  squeezer and squeeze a batch of rivets until they just fit the holes before you  even start to rivet.  Once you have the squeezer adjusted this goes pretty  fast.  Now when you start banging on the skin, you won't spend the  first 4 or 5 hits bringing the rivet shank up to size.  The now shorter  rivets are not as likely to bend over, and the shop heads form almost as  soon as you start the gun.  The result is a much better job.  You  don't have to start with longer rivets -- that would defeat the purpose.   Use the gauge before you pre-squeeze.  

  

 I built most of my plane this way and I get lots of unsolicited  comments about how good the riveting looks.

  

 Please don't flame me until after you have given this a try.  It  really works.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  

  

  

 In a message dated 10/5/2006 8:59:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  jb.flynavy(at)gmail.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

These are the 3.5 length rivets as specified on the drawings.     I'm match drilling to #40, then dimpling.  This sure seems to give an    awfully big hole for the 3/32 rivets to move around in, although the rudder    turned out ok.



As far as I can tell, my surface (back rivet plate) is    level and the gun is perpendicular.  The working pressure is about 44 psi    (avery 2x gun).



I seem to get slightly better results by driving the    rivets very slowly.



Any advice to improve my    technique??

Thanks,

Jeff[img][/img]

	


 

  

  [quote][b]

Doug Gray

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Sydney, Australia

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:37 pm Post subject: yet another rivet question

I use half that pressure and only about 4-5 hits with a 3x gun when back

riveting onto a steel plate.



Doug Gray



On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 17:55 -0700, Jeff Bearden wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I know you experienced folks get tired of the "is this crappy rivet ok?" bit, but I gotta post another one.  I'm back riveting the stiffeners into the rudder and elevator skins of an -8.  The rudder stiffener rivets turned out fine, but upon inspection of the bottom side of the port elevator, I found about 1/3 of the rivets look like the pictures.  Essentially, the shop head is flattening half of the dimple.

 

 These are the 3.5 length rivets as specified on the drawings.  I'm match drilling to #40, then dimpling.  This sure seems to give an awfully big hole for the 3/32 rivets to move around in, although the rudder turned out ok.

 

 As far as I can tell, my surface (back rivet plate) is level and the gun is perpendicular.  The working pressure is about 44 psi (avery 2x gun).

 

 I seem to get slightly better results by driving the rivets very slowly.

 

 Any advice to improve my technique??

 Thanks,

 Jeff[img][/img]

 

 --------

 -Clam

 ------------------

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=66083#66083

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/rivetok1_medium_164.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/rivetok2_medium_128.jpg

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/rivetok3_medium_166.jpg

retasker(at)optonline.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:41 pm Post subject: yet another rivet question

Jeff Bearden wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  As far as I can tell, my surface (back rivet plate) is level and the gun is perpendicular.  The working pressure is about 44 psi (avery 2x gun).



Your pressure seems very high.  I also have an avery 2X gun and only use 
	


25 psi for these rivets.  I only go up to the pressure you mention if I 

am setting the longer lengths of 1/8" rivets.



Dick Tasker



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Please Note: 

No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message.  We do concede, however,

that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced.

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Jeff Bearden

Joined: 31 May 2006
Posts: 4
Location: St. Augustine, FL

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: Re: yet another rivet question

Thanks Gents.  I'll experiment with each.  Think I'll start with reducing the pressure at the gun.  Maybe not banging the snot outta the rivets will help.  Be gentle with the rivets, the rivets are your friends; right??

Used to tell people the same thing teachin em to ski the bumps....

-Jeff

_________________
-Jeff Bearden
St. Augustine, FL
RV-8 #82563
------------------

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: yet another rivet question

Yeah, make sure you don't hit it too hard, but also not too light or too

short a burst.  That is, don't harden the rivet, which can happen with a

series of bursts.  Try to get it set in one burst, not multiple bursts,

probably at most 4-6 taps of the gun should do the -3 rivets.  You got to

have that certain rhythm, ya know.  



John Jessen

  #40328



do not archive



--

smittysrv

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 67

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: Re: yet another rivet question

I have found that if I hold the backrivet tool perfectly perpendicular to the surface, the rivets come out looking like crap and look pushed over. I soon learned to lean the backrivet attachment towards the upward angle side of the back stiffener to make the back rivets come out perfect. That don't make no sense, I know, but it works. Here's my entry on my website about it (about 5 pictures down):



http://smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=302

_________________
Smittys RV-9A
SmittysRV.com

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