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NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems
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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:47 pm    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

Bob,

With all due respect... I don't mind waiting for parts, I had to wait for 2 months to get my heads back from falcon and that was fine with me because Mark told me he was behind and when he could get to them. When it came about time to expect them I called Mark and he told me there was a slight delay and I should be getting them in a couple of weeks. I called Mark in a couple of weeks and he had just shipped them as promised. That my friend is the way you run a business. He didn't lie and say next week and next week and next week he was up front and honest about when he could get them done.
If William had told me it would be 3 months before I would see my parts then so be it, but that was not the case. When someone gives me his word that is what I expect to happen.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:49 pm    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

Also WW is one of the only people that require all of the money up front when you order parts. And as far as the manual and DVD Grace handles that part of things.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 9:54 pm    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

I will tell you that I spoke to Gordon tonight and he said he spoke to William and I should have my parts By this Saturday. I have someone that is going to pick them up I will let you know the outcome but I am not holding my breath.
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601zv(at)ritternet.com
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:06 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

What parts do you have, for how much $?
[quote] ---


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gboothe5(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

…..What he needs is competition….


OK…you made your point…..If that’s the way you feel, then go for it!! I suspect you will spend 4 years in college, 5 years in the industry gaining knowledge and experience, and several more years perfecting your business….see you in 2019.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:04 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems


I would agree with you except he told me my mount would be shipped one week then the next week I called and he told me the metal shipment was due in a few days and he would be building it that week and then ship it for me. Now that my friend was a bold face lie.

What he needs is competition.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:21 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

What WW need is a good parts distributor. Someone who could buy his inventory wholesale and then retail it and keep track of back orders. In this case William would concentrate on making parts and give support, and the distributor will conentrate on resell and distribution. I don't know how close to production cost WW sell his parts, if this is the case, such distributor will have to raise prices a little bit. So, is there anyone with some cash, ready for a business oportunity. The hardes part would be convincing WW.


William Dominguez
Zodiac 601XL Plans
Miami, Florida


Gary Boothe <gboothe5(at)comcast.net> wrote:[quote] v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } <![endif]--> …..What he needs is competition….


OK…you made your point…..If that’s the way you feel, then go for it!! I suspect you will spend 4 years in college, 5 years in the industry gaining knowledge and experience, and several more years perfecting your business….see you in 2019.
Gary Boothe
Cool, CA
601 HDSTD, WW Conversion 90% done,
Tail done, wings done, working on c-section

From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:04 PM
To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems


I would agree with you except he told me my mount would be shipped one week then the next week I called and he told me the metal shipment was due in a few days and he would be building it that week and then ship it for me. Now that my friend was a bold face lie.

What he needs is competition.

[quote] [b]


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:04 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

Convincing WW that he needs a middleman to increase prices would be impossible. He is quite aware that the problem is with production and that the time and cost involved in the distribution part is insignificant in comparison. This thread has been hashed over and rehashed many times on the Corvair list, and related posts would more appropriately be directed there instead to the Zenith list.
Just my 2-cents worth.

Do not archive.

[quote] ---


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

Raymond,
There was a dual ignition paper by Paul Messenger which converted a
single pickup and module distributor
to dual pickups and used externalized modules. I have a copy of that
data if you're interested. I used that
information to convert my Subaru to dual ignition. If that's what you
need, contact me off line (larry(at)macsmachine.com).

Point type ignition is another matter.

Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive

raymondj wrote:
Quote:
Does any one have the specs. and process details for building and
testing the dual points distributor?

Raymond Julian
Kettle River, MN


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Gig Giacona



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

I've ordered three items from WW. First, the manual a couple of years ago. I got it in a week or two.

4 or 5 months ago I ordered the engine mount. Got it in 3 weeks.

Then I called him in October to talk about ordering a complete engine. We talked on the phone for over 30 minutes most of which was spent with him trying to talk me out of him building my engine. He talked me into going to the Corvair College that was happening the next month. I learned a lot. Got to fly in a few Corvair powered aircraft.

In the end I decided that while I could do it if I had to I would be better off with him building my engine. As I said before I took the 6 to 8 weeks quote with a grain of salt.

I also figured this out. WW is an engineer he's not a salesman and he isn't an organizational whiz. If I could give him one piece of business advise it would be to hire a manager and let the manager do the scheduling and delivery time quotes.

His operation is basically a 2 or 3 man, 1 woman and 1 cat shop. His sales have increased dramatically, he is still doing R&D on many of the things he is going to offer and a lot of the stuff that goes into his product comes from other sources that he doesn't have a lot of control over.
If you didn't understand this going in YOU didn't do your homework.

I'd be willing to bet that if you had called him and placed your order and he had told you that he wasn't sure when you would get the product you would have been on here bitching that WW dosen't have a product and the whole Corvair engine thing is hype.

If you can't live with the delays I'd suggest you go with a Lycoming, Rotax or Jabariu.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:17 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

Well since I am building a zenith it is appropriately directed.

In a message dated 2/9/2007 10:05:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, 601zv(at)ritternet.com writes:
Quote:
Convincing WW that he needs a middleman to increase prices would be impossible. He is quite aware that the problem is with production and that the time and cost involved in the distribution part is insignificant in comparison. This thread has been hashed over and rehashed many times on the Corvair list, and related posts would more appropriately be directed there instead to the Zenith list.
Just my 2-cents worth.

Do not archive.



[quote][b]


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

I also saw a dual point that was for the corvair that wasn't William's some where but can't remember where at the moment.


In a message dated 2/9/2007 10:14:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, larry(at)macsmachine.com writes:
Quote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: LarryMcFarland <larry(at)macsmachine.com>

Raymond,
There was a dual ignition paper by Paul Messenger which converted a
single pickup and module distributor
to dual pickups and used externalized modules. I have a copy of that
data if you're interested. I used that
information to convert my Subaru to dual ignition. If that's what you
need, contact me off line (larry(at)macsmachine.com).

Point type ignition is another matter.

Larry McFarland at www.macsmachine.com
do not archive



[quote][b]


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:30 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

Once again let me repeat myself so the ONES WITH GLASSES CAN SEE IT!!! WILLIAM AND MYSELF HAD A LONG TALK ABOUT MY PROJECT AND I TOLD HIM I WAS ALMOST READY FOR FWF HE ASSURED ME I WOULD NOT HAVE TO WAIT ON PARTS. If he would have told me it would be months after his quoted time frame I would have made another choice SO HE IS A SALESMAN.


In a message dated 2/9/2007 12:10:05 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wr.giacona(at)cox.net writes:
Quote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" <wr.giacona(at)cox.net>

I've ordered three items from WW. First, the manual a couple of years ago. I got it in a week or two.

4 or 5 months ago I ordered the engine mount. Got it in 3 weeks.

Then I called him in October to talk about ordering a complete engine. We talked on the phone for over 30 minutes most of which was spent with him trying to talk me out of him building my engine. He talked me into going to the Corvair College that was happening the next month. I learned a lot. Got to fly in a few Corvair powered aircraft.

In the end I decided that while I could do it if I had to I would be better off with him building my engine. As I said before I took the 6 to 8 weeks quote with a grain of salt.

I also figured this out. WW is an engineer he's not a salesman and he isn't an organizational whiz. If I could give him one piece of business advise it would be to hire a manager and let the manager do the scheduling and delivery time quotes.

His operation is basically a 2 or 3 man, 1 woman and 1 cat shop. His sales have increased dramatically, he is still doing R&D on many of the things he is going to offer and a lot of the stuff that goes into his product comes from other sources that he doesn't have a lot of control over.
If you didn't understand this going in YOU didn't do your homework.

I'd be willing to bet that if you had called him and placed your order and he had told you that he wasn't sure when you would get the product you would have been on here bitching that WW doesn't have a product and the whole Corvair engine thing is hype.

If you can't live with the delays I'd suggest you go with a Lycoming, Rotax or Jabariu.

--------
W.R. &quot;Gig&quot; Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR



[quote][b]


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:08 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

Apparently you have a finished airframe waiting on the FWF, so I can certainly understand your frustration. If you would post on the CorvAircraft list what you have available, I bet you will quickly find someone happy to take what Corvair stuff you have off your hands, and you can move on to Rotax, Jab, or whatever makes your horn toot quick. CorvAircraft list info is at http://www.krnet.org/corvaircraft_inst.html
[quote] ---


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 10:32 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

As I said in a previous post Gordon that is at WW hanger told me my stuff would be ready for pick up tomorrow. I don't want to sell what I have got or switch engine's I really do like the corvair and I have nothing against William other than the fact that he made promises to me that he didn't follow thru with. I will be the first to tell you he has done some great things for aviation and if you order your parts when you start your project you might not have a problem. My case is a little different and he has caused me a 2 month delay in getting my project flying. It is to late to turn back the clock and switch engine's.
I will let everyone know if I do get my parts tomorrow and I will be sure to let you know if I don't.

I was always taught a man's word is his bond .... have we all forgotten that?

do not archive
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Joined: 07 Jan 2007
Posts: 8
Location: Willamina, Oregon

PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

I re-read my post and it had a little 'bite' to it that I didn't intend. I guess I should 'proof read' my comments! LOL How do I get hold of Falcon to get some head work done?
Thanks,
Bob form Oregon

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 11:09 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

Mark (Falcon)
2043 S Fish Hatchery Road
Oregon, WI 53575
(608) 835-3317

In a message dated 2/9/2007 2:06:02 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, badbob0007(at)earthlink.net writes:
Quote:
I re-read my post and it had a little 'bite' to it that I didn't intend. I guess I should 'proof read' my comments! LOL  How do I get hold of Falcon to get some head work done?
Thanks,
Bob form Oregon




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ashontz



Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 723

PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:06 am    Post subject: Re: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

[quote="mrcc1234(at)sbcglobal.net"]Look guys and gals,

Don't you think you are being a little hard on the guy. What follows is not a rant or tirade, but a few suggestions. Everyone is welcome to hit the delete key if they want.

William has been nothing but helpful to hundreds of folks at no cost. He has made it possible for most of us to be able to have our own plane and to still be safe about it for a reasonable cost. His track record is second to none and for at least half the money of comparable engines.

He also does not run and hide when something ends up being a problem. He posts every bit of research and gives the best solution from a money, safety and experience perspective.

Sure he has more work than he can handle, but didn't you know that going in?

Just take a look at the turnout he always gets and the crowds that are being converted to Corvair Flyers. If he wants to keep his business small and keep from growing into a nameless face of a company that's fine with me. He may even still be around 10 years from now because of it.

Just order your parts well in advance or build them yourself. This world we live in has conditioned us to expect everything now, but I think some things are worth the wait.

I will see you at the airport in my plane someday thanks to William Wynne, the EAA, a few local builders and Zenith. These are the folks I have learned to trust.

Kindest Regards,
Matt Stecher in Katy, TX
XL Corvair
Quote:
--


Yes, I support him too, even if he's a little slow on production. This is what grassroots aviation is about. This is what it was like 10 years ago, mom and pop outfits and doing their best. Be glad you still have this level of freedom. It could all be regulated by the FAA outright these days. 10+ years ago you'd be hard pressed to have even basic access and info about the Corvair conversion. Personally, I'd rather wait 2 months for parts then either never get them because they weren't available or there wasn't anyone out there that had done this level of research. WW runs a relatively small shop. Try rebuilding an engine yourself. I've done it, but it takes quite awhile, but it they're doing 5 a week and there's 8 people in the shop (8 people he trusts which extends to you trusting too) and there's 100+ on back order, well, it's going to take awhile. Not only that, they're also building custom parts for DYIers, as well as things like engine mounts and putting together Corvair workshops, I'd say they have their hands full. Just be patient. Probably should have ordered the engine from him 6 months ago.

If you're in that much of a hurry, why not buy one of the ones he has advertised as ready to go on his website and just leave him your core?

WW isn't set up like Walmart suppliers. This is how businesses ran pre-1990, before globalization. This is the real cost of American Made parts, and they're good. It takes time and it costs a little more. If this was a Walmart supplier with instant product like everyone has gotten used to the past 15 years, yes, you'd have your engine, it'd also be another nail in the coffin of american manufacturing, and the proceeds would go to the CEO who then lobbies to have your local airport turned into a class C so he can fly his Lear in there safely as well as by another 30 million dollar mansion in Naples, FL, and the other 1% of profit can go to help a multitude of families in Beijing live at the poverty line in cramped housing.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:20 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

In a message dated 2/10/2007 9:07:34 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, ashontz(at)nbme.org writes:
Quote:
--> Zenith-List message posted by: "ashontz" <ashontz(at)nbme.org>

[quote="mrcc1234(at)sbcglobal.net"]Look guys and gals,

Don't you think you are being a little hard on the guy. What follows is not a rant or tirade, but a few suggestions. Everyone is welcome to hit the delete key if they want.

William has been nothing but helpful to hundreds of folks at no cost. He has made it possible for most of us to be able to have our own plane and to still be safe about it for a reasonable cost. His track record is second to none and for at least half the money of comparable engines.

He also does not run and hide when something ends up being a problem. He posts every bit of research and gives the best solution from a money, safety and experience perspective.

Sure he has more work than he can handle, but didn't you know that going in?

Just take a look at the turnout he always gets and the crowds that are being converted to Corvair Flyers. If he wants to keep his business small and keep from growing into a nameless face of a company that's fine with me. He may even still be around 10 years from now because of it.

Just order your parts well in advance or  build them yourself. This world we live in has conditioned us to expect everything now, but I think some things are worth the wait.

I will see you at the airport in my plane someday thanks to William Wynne, the EAA, a few local builders and Zenith.  These are the folks I have learned to trust.

Kindest Regards,
Matt Stecher in Katy, TX
XL Corvair

Quote:
  --


Yes, I support him too, even if he's a little slow on production. This is what grassroots aviation is about. This is what it was like 10 years ago, mom and pop outfits and doing their best. Be glad you still have this level of freedom. It could all be regulated by the FAA outright these days. 10+ years ago you'd be hard pressed to have even basic access and info about the Corvair conversion. Personally, I'd rather wait 2 months for parts then either never get them because they weren't available or there wasn't anyone out there that had done this level of research. WW runs a relatively small shop. Try rebuilding an engine yourself. I've done it, but it takes quite awhile, but it they're doing 5 a week and there's 8 people in the shop (8 people he trusts which extends to you trusting too) and there's 100+ on back order, well, it's going to take awhile. Not only that, they're also building custom parts for DYIers, as well as things like engine mounts and putting together Corvai!
r workshops, I'd say they have their hands full. Just be patient. Probably should have ordered the engine from him 6 months ago.

If you're in that much of a hurry, why not buy one of the ones he has advertised as ready to go on his website and just leave him your core?

--------
CH601XL - Corvair


I for one would like to put this to bed. I started this thread and I would like to finish it today. I spoke with William yesterday and he himself assured me that the parts would be ready for pick up today. If everyone would read all the posts and not just chime in in the middle you would understand what the topic is all about. WW doesn't owe me an engine he only owes me a engine mount, nose bowl, intake, and exhaust that's it.
As I told everyone before I like the corvair and William has done great things for the corvair and GA. And once again My only problem with him is that he would keep telling me my parts would ship at the end of the week over and over again. If he would have simply stated they aren't going to be ready due to whatever that would have been fine but I have things to do also and I plan my work according to what parts I will be getting in that week. I only started posting out of frustration and anger. I have been moved from my heated hanger and am working in a 27 degree one and that isn't fun. If I had had my parts by Christmas I would be finished now. If I were to do it all over again would I have gone with the corvair probably not. That said do I think William will come thru with your parts if you order them well in advance? I believe he would. The cold facts are he has created a monster and he has to tame it. Like it or not some business's have to grow and this looks like one of them.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

Well said. With an auto conversion we should all expect delays. It's part of the game. I am enjoying the process, and since a homebuilt project is never really finished anyway I am sure I could find something productive to do to the plane rather than continue to bash William.
Dan.
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Afterfxllc(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 3:38 pm    Post subject: NEED TO FINISH MY PLANE William Wynne problems Reply with quote

Ok William did come thru with my parts today they were picked up and they will be shipped to me Monday.
I would like to thank William for acknowledging he dropped the ball when it came to communicating the delays. I want everyone to remember that my parts were promised before Christmas so if anyone is going to order their parts and then bitch a week later and trash him on the list I would think twice about it. I risked him sending me a check instead of parts. I started this thread because I was pissed and wanted to let the world know It NOT to get my parts faster. I had other means to do that.
I only hope that if nothing else comes from this that William will quote realistic delivery times and understand that if things happen to delay a shipment he simply sends a email and lets the customer know.
I would like to apologize to William for the thread just as he did for admitting he dropped the ball. In the end I hope this will bring about change for the better on both ends.
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