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Lower cowling slot

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Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:50 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot

I would like to make a removable plate on the lower cowling to make it easier to put on and take off.  I was wondering if it's worth it for those of you who have done it and if I should close the gap to the front gear leg or leave the same amount of space for cooling.  Was this space used for the equation for cooling?  Any pics out there for reference?



Thanks

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

kdbelue(at)charter.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:12 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot

I've wondered if this slot allows in air opposing the cooling air coming down through the engine. Especially in climb, the nose is at an upward angle to the relative airflow, allowing the air to flow into the slot and oppose the engine cooling air. I've wanted to measure the CHT difference before and after closing the slot, but haven't yet....



Sent from my iPhone



On Sep 13, 2010, at 12:50 PM, "Strasnuts" <sean(at)braunandco.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I would like to make a removable plate on the lower cowling to make it easier to put on and take off.  I was wondering if it's worth it for those of you who have done it and if I should close the gap to the front gear leg or leave the same amount of space for cooling.  Was this space used for the equation for cooling?  Any pics out there for reference?

 

 Thanks

 

 --------

 Cust. #40936

 RV-10 SB Fuselage

 N801VR reserved

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=312297#312297

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:25 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot

I extended the slot forward several inches, installed nutplates along the sides and then made an aluminum cover plate that essentially made the exposed part of the slot the same as stock.  No need to mess around to do anything but surface mounting of the plate - it's only visible to those on their hands and knees under the cowl.  Idea came from Alex D. (RVTraining.com) who also did this on his -10.  



Bob



--

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:01 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot

I did the same thing       initially, it was to allow for ease of removal w/ 3 bld prop.

       

       http://deemsrv10.com/album/Sec%2047%20Spinner%20and%20Cowling/slides/DSC04249.html       (click forward for 8-9 pictures).

       

        But when working on cooling issues I modified the original       removable plate to one which included louvers, in the hope that it       would allow for more exit air and better cooling.

       

       http://deemsrv10.com/album/Phase1/slides/DSC07558.html (several       pics)

       

       As you can see from the pictures, I enclosed the slot with a cover       aft of the landing gear leg.

       

       

       RESULTS : I can't say as any of this made a significant difference       in cooling.

       

       Deems Davis

       

       www.deemsrv10.com

       

       

     

     On 9/13/2010 11:19 AM, Condrey, Bob (US SSA) wrote:     [quote]       [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> (bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com)  I extended the slot forward several inches, installed nutplates along the sides and then made an aluminum cover plate that essentially made the exposed part of the slot the same as stock.  No need to mess around to do anything but surface mounting of the plate - it's only visible to those on their hands and knees under the cowl.  Idea came from Alex D. (RVTraining.com) who also did this on his -10.    Bob  --

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Lower cowling slot

Thanks for the replies.  I made this today.  Hopefully this makes it a little easier to take off the cowl.  It is 7 more screws on the lower cowl but I will have the screwdriver out anyway.

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_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

acsjohn

Joined: 27 Jul 2009
Posts: 15
Location: Australia

Posted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:37 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot

I extended the slot forward to enable easier removal of the 3 blade prop as

others have done. I haven't made a cover for this area but it doesn't seem

to have made any real difference to the oil temps in any case.

My oil temps now average 206 deg F at 5000' OAT 50F

Initial running was around 215-216 deg F

I was told everything will eventually stabilise and don't be too concerned

about the high oil temps, but I'm not real comfortable with the temps

creeping up there.

A suggestion was put to me to install small ramp style wedges in front of

the stock louvers in order to drag the hot air out and away from the lower

cowl. Anybody had any experience with this?



John 40315

Phase 1 Fly off

--

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:25 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot

I fought high oil temps and installed a second oil cooler on the right side.

Final part of the solution was cowl flaps as these pics show. Before I put

the non-adjustable flaps in I had louvers in those locations but they didn't

do enough. Still have to be careful of extended ground operation in 100+

days though.

Albert Gardner

N991RV

Yuma, AZ



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_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:35 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot

Im just starting to fly also with one under my belt and my temps were alittle higher than I wanted also. I installed two oil cooler's in hopes of avoiding this issue as Deem's had warned me about it. I'm going to put some hours on her and see what shakes out. It went up to about 220 on climb out and leveled off arounf 205 at about 25MAp And 2500 RPM. It started to climb if I leaned any. Let me know if you come up with anything.

  

 Bruce 151BJ 



 

   From: John Dunne <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 12:30:47 AM

Subject: RE: Lower cowling slot



--> RV10-List message posted by: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au (acs(at)acspropeller.com.au)>



I extended the slot forward to enable easier removal of the 3 blade prop as

others have done. I haven't made a cover for this area but it doesn't seem

to have made any real difference to the oil temps in any case.

My oil temps now average 206 deg F at 5000' OAT 50F

Initial running was around 215-216 deg F

I was told everything will eventually stabilise and don't be too concerned

about the high oil temps,  but I'm not real comfortable with the temps

creeping up there.

A suggestion was put to me to install small ramp style wedges in front of

the stock louvers in order to drag the hot air out and away from the lower

cowl. Anybody had any experience with this?



John 40315

Phase 1 Fly off

--

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:39 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot

If the oil temp rises on leaning, you are leaning way too slowly.

During break-in you want to either be at least 100 ROP, or at least 50

LOP.  40-50 ROP will give hottest CHT and oil temps.

LOP fuel flow would be 13.1 for 75% power, so you could set for about

80% ROP and then lean directly to 13 gph and leave it there.



On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Bruce Johnson

<bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

[quote] Im just starting to fly also with one under my belt and my temps were

 alittle higher than I wanted also. I installed two oil cooler's in hopes of

 avoiding this issue as Deem's had warned me about it. I'm going to put some

 hours on her and see what shakes out. It went up to about 220 on climb out

 and leveled off arounf 205 at about 25MAp And 2500 RPM. It started to climb

 if I leaned any. Let me know if you come up with anything.



 Bruce 151BJ



 ________________________________

 From: John Dunne <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 12:30:47 AM

 Subject: RE: Lower cowling slot



 



 I extended the slot forward to enable easier removal of the 3 blade prop as

 others have done. I haven't made a cover for this area but it doesn't seem

 to have made any real difference to the oil temps in any case.

 My oil temps now average 206 deg F at 5000' OAT 50F

 Initial running was around 215-216 deg F

 I was told everything will eventually stabilise and don't be too concerned

 about the high oil temps, but I'm not real comfortable with the temps

 creeping up there.

 A suggestion was put to me to install small ramp style wedges in front of

 the stock louvers in order to drag the hot air out and away from the lower

 cowl. Anybody had any experience with this?



 John 40315

 Phase 1 Fly off

 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:41 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot

Thanks, Deems suggested I fly it 25,map and 2500 RPM for the first few and not to spare the gas, at least until it stops using oil. I'll find out where it leans and run it 200' rich.

   From: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 1:25:50 PM

Subject: Re: Lower cowling slot

--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)>

If the oil temp rises on leaning, you are leaning way too slowly.

During break-in you want to either be at least 100 ROP, or at least 50

LOP.  40-50 ROP will give hottest CHT and oil temps.

LOP fuel flow would be 13.1 for 75% power, so you could set for about

80% ROP and then lean directly to 13 gph and leave it there.

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Bruce Johnson

<bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com (bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote] Im just starting to fly also with one under my belt and my temps were

 alittle higher than I wanted also. I installed two oil cooler's in hopes of

 avoiding this issue as Deem's had warned me about it. I'm going to put some

 hours on her and see what shakes out. It went up to about 220 on climb out

 and leveled off arounf 205 at about 25MAp And 2500 RPM. It started to climb

 if I leaned any. Let me know if you come up with anything.

 Bruce 151BJ

 ________________________________

 From: John Dunne <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au (acs(at)acspropeller.com.au)>

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 12:30:47 AM

  Subject: RE: Lower cowling slot

 --> RV10-List message posted by: "John Dunne" <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au (acs(at)acspropeller.com.au)>

 I extended the slot forward to enable easier removal of the 3 blade prop as

 others have done. I haven't made a cover for this area but it doesn't seem

 to have made any real difference to the oil temps in any case.

 My oil temps now average 206 deg F at 5000' OAT 50F

 Initial running was around 215-216 deg F

 I was told everything will eventually stabilise and don't be too concerned

 about the high oil temps, but I'm not real comfortable with the temps

 creeping up there.

 A suggestion was put to me to install small ramp style wedges in front of

 the stock louvers in order to drag the hot air out and away from the lower

 cowl. Anybody had any  experience with this?

 John 40315

 Phase 1 Fly off

 --

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot

GAMI breaks in their big turbo-charged Continentals at 75-85% power, 

LOP after initial climb, and completes full ring seating in less than 5 

hours. But main consideration for break-in is to follow advice of 

whomever is providing warranty, if any.

On 9/15/2010 2:37 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:

[quote] Thanks, Deems suggested I fly it 25,map and 2500 RPM for the first few 

 and not to spare the gas, at least until it stops using oil. I'll find 

 out where it leans and run it 200' rich.



 ------------------------------------------------------------------------

 *From:* Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com>

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Sent:* Wed, September 15, 2010 1:25:50 PM

 *Subject:* Re: Lower cowling slot



 

 <mailto:apilot2(at)gmail.com>>



 If the oil temp rises on leaning, you are leaning way too slowly.

 During break-in you want to either be at least 100 ROP, or at least 50

 LOP.  40-50 ROP will give hottest CHT and oil temps.

 LOP fuel flow would be 13.1 for 75% power, so you could set for about

 80% ROP and then lean directly to 13 gph and leave it there.



 On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Bruce Johnson

 <bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com <mailto:bruce1hwjohnson(at)yahoo.com>> wrote:

 > Im just starting to fly also with one under my belt and my temps were

 > alittle higher than I wanted also. I installed two oil cooler's in 

 hopes of

 > avoiding this issue as Deem's had warned me about it. I'm going to 

 put some

 > hours on her and see what shakes out. It went up to about 220 on 

 climb out

 > and leveled off arounf 205 at about 25MAp And 2500 RPM. It started 

 to climb

 > if I leaned any. Let me know if you come up with anything.

 >

 > Bruce 151BJ

 >

 > ________________________________

 > From: John Dunne <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au 

 <mailto:acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>>

 > To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

 > Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 12:30:47 AM

 > Subject: RE: Lower cowling slot

 >

 > 

 <acs(at)acspropeller.com.au <mailto:acs(at)acspropeller.com.au>>

 >

 > I extended the slot forward to enable easier removal of the 3 blade 

 prop as

 > others have done. I haven't made a cover for this area but it 

 doesn't seem

 > to have made any real difference to the oil temps in any case.

 > My oil temps now average 206 deg F at 5000' OAT 50F

 > Initial running was around 215-216 deg F

 > I was told everything will eventually stabilise and don't be too 

 concerned

 > about the high oil temps, but I'm not real comfortable with the temps

 > creeping up there.

 > A suggestion was put to me to install small ramp style wedges in 

 front of

 > the stock louvers in order to drag the hot air out and away from the 

 lower

 > cowl. Anybody had any experience with this?

 >

 > John 40315

 > Phase 1 Fly off

 >

 >

 > --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:43 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot

Albert,

       

       THANKS for this idea, I'm in the process of fabricating something       identical, only out of fiberglass.

       How much of an improvement do you feel you got? CHT? Oil Temp?

       Did you see any reduction in TAS?

       

       THANKS

       

       Deems

       

       (Hope to see you (at) Copperstate!)

     

     On 9/15/2010 3:20 AM, Albert Gardner wrote:     [quote]       [quote]I fought high oil temps and installed a second oil cooler on the right side. Final part of the solution was cowl flaps as these pics show. Before I put the non-adjustable flaps in I had louvers in those locations but they didn't do enough. Still have to be careful of extended ground operation in 100+ days though. Albert Gardner N991RV Yuma, AZ  --

aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Lower cowling slot

I just thought I would throw this out about oil temps. I have noticed over the past that some people that have had oil temp problems only had 4 cooling slots per side on either side of the nose gear cut out. There are suppose to be five slots. If you go back through this discussion you can see that Albert only had 4 slots cut. I have seen this before. This is a easy

thing to do and miss cutting out the front slots. Ask me how I know. I caught mine 2 days before the first flight. This could possibly be some

of the cooling problems for people with the standard Van's cowl. 

FWIW



Geoff

N829GW

_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:25 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot

Geoff



So would 6 slot be better for people that live in warm climates, and did you

install the grates a lot of people recommend or did you just open 6 slots in

the bottom of the cowl on each side.



John G. Cumins

President

 



2499 B1 Martin Rd

Fairfield Ca 94534

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax

 

Your Total Technology Solution Provider

--

aerosport1

Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 231

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:36 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot

John I just have the standard 5 slots per the plans. Not sure what 6 slots

would do. 



Geoff



Geoff Combs

President

Aerosport Modeling & Design

8090 Howe Industrial Parkway 

Canal Winchester, Ohio 43110

614-834-5227p

614-834-5230f

www.aerosportmodeling.com

--

_________________
Geoff Combs
RV-10 QB N829GW
Flying 500 hrs
40033

jcumins(at)jcis.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:55 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot

Geoff



Thanks

John G. Cumins

President

 



2499 B1 Martin Rd

Fairfield Ca 94534

707-425-7100

707-425-7576 Fax

 

Your Total Technology Solution Provider

--

partner14

Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:38 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot

First we must all be talking apples and apples.  Deems not lonly doesn't have a stock engine, but he lives in AZ.  So all of us with cold air induction, and/or higher compression, and/or are living in a hot climate, need to do things different than Van's stock setup.

 There's already a baffle out that inserts into the oil cooler box.  I believe most of us with heating problems, including Deems, has already installed this.  I did a number of things and I seem to have the heat issue managaeable.  I have 8ea. 3" louvers on each side of the bottom cowl (Van's has 5ea. 4"), then I have 4 additional louvers on each bottom outside edge of the cowl.  4 of these are directly below the oil cooler.  All of these louvers have a reverse scoop to allow the air to escape without having to compete with the relative wind.  The last thing I did was something I just thought up.  I used the 2nd 2" scat coming off the back of cyl #5 (both of my heater scats come off the back of #5), routed it over to a fabricated fiberglass "Y" and input it, along with the 4" from #6, into the oil cooler.  #6 was my hottest cyl, and the difference between #5 and #6 was around 20 degrees.  After installing  the mod, the temperature difference is usually between 5 and 10 degrees and 

on a hot Texas day, after going to lunch, on the way back at 3,000' I ran 3 120 degree different course headings at 25sq.  My TAS calculated out to 199mph, and my oil temp never exceeded 197 degrees.

 I attached a few pics of what I've done..... no engineer here, just trying stuff that I thought might work.

 Don McDonald

  

 Anyone going to LOE?

  

 Funny,,, last year I didn't know what an LOE was!

 

--- On Wed, 9/29/10, aerosport1 <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com> wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  

From: aerosport1 <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>

Subject: Re: Lower cowling slot

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Wednesday, September 29, 2010, 1:03 PM



 --> RV10-List message posted by: "aerosport1" <g.combs(at)aerosportmodeling.com>



I just thought I would throw this out about oil temps. I have noticed over the past that some people that have had oil temp problems only had 4 cooling slots per side on either side of the nose gear cut out. There are suppose to be five slots. If you go back through this discussion you can see that Albert only had 4 slots cut. I have seen this before. This is a easy

thing to do and miss cutting out the front slots. Ask me how I know. I caught mine 2 days before the first flight. This could possibly be some

of the cooling problems for people with the standard Van's cowl. 

FWIW



Geoff

N829GW



--------

Geoff Combs

RV-10 QB  N829GW

Flying

40033





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.ph/www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List" rel=nofollow target=_blank>httpsp;  --> http://www.matronics.com/contri================

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_________________
Don A. McDonald
40636

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:48 pm Post subject: Lower cowling slot

Now that several of us are working on this problem maybe a solution will appear.  

that latest data I recorded was on a flight from Maderia, CA back to Yuma during cruise on Aug. 15th:  

128 IAS, 160 TAS, 55f OAT, 207f Oil, 11,500', 2300 RPM. 19.6" MAP, 12.3 GPH ROP  

#1   396,    387,   348,   345,    373,   369  

#1 1339, 1289, 1323, 1246, 1284, 1324  

   

The addition of the cowl flaps helped keep oil temps down on climb by about 5-10 degrees. Before I installed them I found it very difficult to keep oil temps down with high ground temps and any delay in TO. I had them go to 230-35 before I could drop the nose and get some airspeed if I had prolonged taxi time.  

Now I'm going to replace the temp cowl flaps with glass ones that look a little better. However I don't see any way they can retract.   

   

I am running an IO-540 with 10:1 and 1 Lightspeed at 315 HP. I have installed a second oil cooler on the right side using the same setup as the stock cooler on the left. With second cooler and the cowl flaps I aam reasonably happy. I have a buddy with some thermocouples and we plan on checking the oil temps going in and out of the 2 oil coolers which are connected in series.  

Albert Gardner  

N991RV  

Yuma, AZ  

   

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Deems Davis

 Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 9:40 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Lower cowling slot  

  

  

   

Albert,

 

 THANKS for this idea, I'm in the process of fabricating something identical, only out of fiberglass.

 How much of an improvement do you feel you got? CHT? Oil Temp?

 Did you see any reduction in TAS?

 

 THANKS

 

 Deems

 

 (Hope to see you (at) Copperstate!)

 

 On 9/15/2010 3:20 AM, Albert Gardner wrote:   [quote]I fought high oil temps and installed a second oil cooler on the right side.Final part of the solution was cowl flaps as these pics show. Before I putthe non-adjustable flaps in I had louvers in those locations but they didn'tdo enough. Still have to be careful of extended ground operation in 100+days though.Albert GardnerN991RVYuma, AZ --

_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:43 am Post subject: Lower cowling slot

Well, things will run hotter ROP than LOP.  I'd  try  LOP to get the CHT down, which should be good for 20-30 degrees by  itself.

I assume you are using 2300  rpm looking for economy. At that altitude, the lower rpm limits power  available and I believe you get less cooling. I would use at least 2500  rpm when above 10,000 and see if that helps cooling at all.  With your compression, and the Lightspeed advancing the timing,  using a lower rpm is like putting your car in overdrive with full  throttle...it puts more of a load on everything than going the same  speed at higher rpm.

 



On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Albert Gardner <ibspud(at)roadrunner.com (ibspud(at)roadrunner.com)> wrote:

 [quote]             

Now that several of us are working on this problem maybe a solution will appear.  

that latest data I recorded was on a flight from Maderia, CA back to Yuma during cruise on Aug. 15th:  

128 IAS, 160 TAS, 55f OAT, 207f Oil, 11,500', 2300 RPM. 19.6" MAP, 12.3 GPH ROP  

#1   396,    387,   348,   345,    373,   369  

#1 1339, 1289, 1323, 1246, 1284, 1324  

   

The addition of the cowl flaps helped keep oil temps down on climb by about 5-10 degrees. Before I installed them I found it very difficult to keep oil temps down with high ground temps and any delay in TO. I had them go to 230-35 before I could drop the nose and get some airspeed if I had prolonged taxi time.  

Now I'm going to replace the temp cowl flaps with glass ones that look a little better. However I don't see any way they can retract.  

[b]

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

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