Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

rv10rob(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

Yikes

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=81319

-- 



Rob Kochman

RV-10 Flying since March 2011

  Woodinville, WA

 http://kochman.net/N819K



  [quote][b]

woxofswa

Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 349
Location: AZ

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:48 am Post subject: Re: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

I spoke with them recently about an engine.  It appears that neither Aerosport nor Barrett's build kit engines anymore.  From what I gather, Lycoming has raised the kit prices to the point that there is no competitive margin for a house shop.

Aerosport will do a buildup of a 540 core, they just couldn't find one when I was looking.  Barrett did find me one and I went with them.

_________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
Flew May 10 2014

jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

Question is your Kit over five yrs and if so do you have the spinner kit? Looking for and old kit that would have the old front spinner support. Van has changed to their own and it does not fit the old spinner with the Hartzel Prop.

Patrick Thyssen

N15PT 



--- On Thu, 1/19/12, woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

From: woxofswa <woxof(at)aol.com>

Subject: Re: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Date: Thursday, January 19, 2012, 11:48 AM



--> RV10-List message posted by: "woxofswa" <[url=/mc/compose?to=woxof(at)aol.com]woxof(at)aol.com[/url]>



I spoke with them recently about an engine.  It  appears that neither Aerosport nor Barrett's build kit engines anymore.  From what I gather, Lycoming has raised the kit prices to the point that there is no competitive margin for a house shop.

Aerosport will do a buildup of a 540 core, they just couldn't find one when I was looking.  Barrett did find me one and I went with them.



--------

Myron Nelson

Mesa, AZ

Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing kit in progress.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.psp; --> http://=             - List Contributionsp;                             -Matt Dralle, cs.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contributio==============





	
 [quote][b]

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:30 am Post subject: Re: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

I went through this discovery back during the summer as I was researching the various options in prep for OSH.  That's when I noticed that 540's had dropped off the Mattituck order form.  Further research uncovered the whole Lycoming kit issue that you're dealing with today.  That's when going with a zero-time rebuilt became choice #1.  Talked to Rhonda from Barrett at OSH and the rest is history-  they are delivering my rebuilt C4B5 next Tuesday!

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:27 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

I don't think Mattituck is doing it either. I think Lycoming pulled it from them as well.



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

C: 352-427-0285

F: 815-377-3694



On Jan 19, 2012, at 12:48 PM, woxofswa wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I spoke with them recently about an engine.  It appears that neither Aerosport nor Barrett's build kit engines anymore.  From what I gather, Lycoming has raised the kit prices to the point that there is no competitive margin for a house shop.

 Aerosport will do a buildup of a 540 core, they just couldn't find one when I was looking.  Barrett did find me one and I went with them.

 

 --------

 Myron Nelson

 Mesa, AZ

 Emp completed, QB wings completed, legacy build fuse in mostly done, finishing kit in progress.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364303#364303

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

Yep Mattituck stopped building new TMX 540s last Spring due to the "new" business relationship that Lycoming developed.  I had a discussion with Mahlon from Mattituck about this over on VAF.  My personal opinion is this move by Lycoming was purely an attempt to eliminate competition for their Thunderbolt engines. YMMV.... 



In the end, a BPE rebuilt became the best option for me.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

Last edited by tsts4 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:51 am; edited 1 time in total

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

You will be so much happier to have a BPA rebuilt than a new engine. You'll 

need to fly 40 versus 25 hours, but having that engine will run so much more 

smoothly than a new Lycoming.

P

--

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

 	  rv10flyer(at)verizon.net wrote: 	
		  You will be so much happier to have a BPA rebuilt than a new engine. You'll 

need to fly 40 versus 25 hours, but having that engine will run so much more 

smoothly than a new Lycoming.

P

-- 	


Whether the engine is new or overhauled has no bearing on the hours for Phase I testing. Only whether it is a certified configuration of engine and prop or not is what determines that.

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

rv10flyer(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:23 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

You are correct, if one uses Lycoming parts it would be certified. I was 

thinking about Eci cylinders as applied to me.

Thank you for that clarification.



--

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

ECI cylinders, if PMA'd would not change that situation. More likely stuff like electronic ignition or non-certified prop will cause the extra time. You can have a certified engine that has 99.9% PMA parts with only the sump with the data plate being OEM.

 

On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Pascal <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Pascal" <rv10flyer(at)verizon.net (rv10flyer(at)verizon.net)>

 



 You are correct, if one uses Lycoming parts it would be certified. I was thinking about Eci cylinders as applied to me.

 Thank you for that clarification.

 

 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

In my case I'll get the 40 hr Phase I due to the addition of an AFP FI system which will make it a experimental BPE IO-540-C4B5 with a BPE serial number instead of a Lycoming IO-540.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

BPA(at)bpaengines.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:08 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

Technically Todd, it's an IO-540X. The engine is rated at 2700 max

continuous rpm. 



Allen B.



--

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

Which raises the interesting question of why Lycoming issued different 

model numbers for the 250 hp Aztec C4B5 vs the 260 hp Comanche D4A5, 

which besides governor setting are allegedly identical. I suppose the 

feds against aviation made them do it.



On 1/20/2012 10:05 AM, BPA wrote:

[quote] 



 Technically Todd, it's an IO-540X. The engine is rated at 2700 max

 continuous rpm.



 Allen B.



 --

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

BPA(at)bpaengines.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:27 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

Most likely Kelly, it is airframe related and requested by the

manufacturer. You are correct though, they are identical engines. Except

for the OEM data plate.



--

Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:28 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

It's possible the aircraft manufacturer wanted the hp restriction due to

airframe issues.  Rather than design and build a completely different

engine, it was easier to restrict an engine already in production.



--

Strasnuts

Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 502
Location: Salt Lake City, UT

Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:15 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

Correct...I have an aerosport rebuilt, Hartzell combo with a 25 hr phase 1



Sent from my iPhone



On Jan 20, 2012, at 11:02, "Kellym" <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 

 rv10flyer(at)verizon.net wrote:

> You will be so much happier to have a BPA rebuilt than a new engine. You'll 

> need to fly 40 versus 25 hours, but having that engine will run so much more 

> smoothly than a new Lycoming.

> P

> --

 

 Whether the engine is new or overhauled has no bearing on the hours for Phase I testing. Only whether it is a certified configuration of engine and prop or not is what determines that.

 

 --------

 Kelly McMullen

 A&amp;P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286

 KCHD

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=364358#364358

_________________
40936
RV-10 SB N801VR Flying
780 Hours
SuperSTOL 60 hours

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

Speaking of costs for an opposing 6 cylinder engines. I hold in my hand a receipt for a factory new 2008 "crate" Porsche Boxster S engine shipped over from Stuttgart Germany representing 280 Hp of Autobahn fun for... $13,643.81. No core charge required. I am still not sure why the huge price difference between a Lycoming and this type of engine. At some point after 2, 3 or 4 rebuilds we can't lay the difference on liability costs. 



Robin

Flat 6 to get to the airport & a flat 6 to leave the airport 

--

jkreidler

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 151
Location: Sheboygan Falls WI

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

The difference is continuous power versus intermittent power.  Operating auto engines at anything close to 100% power for any length of time will result in 'less than desirable' results.



It is kind of like buying a 5 HP vacuum cleaner or air compressor which plugs into a standard 120V 15A wall outlet, good advertising, but just not reality when we use physics.  Well,that is not quite fair I am sure the Porsche engine will actually make 280HP for a period of time.



So the real difference is the heft the Lycoming is built with.  Speaking of heft, aluminum is right around $1.00 per pound (raw material for casting), so that Porsche at ~$13k versus that Lycoming at ~$48k,buys you an extra 35,000 lbs of heft -or - wait....

_________________
Jason Kreidler
4 Partner Build - Sheboygan Falls, WI
Tony Kolar, Kyle Hokel, Wayne Elser, Jason Kreidler
N44YH - Flying - #40617

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:49 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

On 1/22/2012 8:35 AM, jkreidler wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 The difference is continuous power versus intermittent power.  Operating auto engines at anything close to 100% power for any length of time will result in 'less than desirable' results.




	


Hi Jason,

     Do you have any proof of this, or is this merely a guess on your part?



-Dj

robin(at)PaintTheWeb.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:03 am Post subject: Aero Sport Power no longer selling (I)O-540s?

Jason,

I understand the differences but do the operating parameters of one vs. the other naturally make one design 3+ times more costly? It seems like starting an engine and within 2 minutes hitting the freeway going 70, stop & go traffic Phoenix  in July or Sheboygan Falls, WI  in January would be harder on an engine than our gentle slow taxi and hold till the oil temp reaches 100 etc... The Porsche engine looks more complicated and sophisticated to me. And the volume argument is difficult to understand since every 6 years or so the engine is updated while the IO-540 seems basically static. One would think basic economics would come into play and over time a static design would come down in price with competitive pressure. Oh wait competition.. Never mind. I know I am not covering anything new here it's just that it looks like soon enough a base IO-540 will pierce the $50,000.00 mark (zeros added for emphasis) which will further reduce the number of people able to enjoy our great sport further damaging GA. 



Robin

Do Not Archive

--

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum